Haruhi Suzumiya - Spoilers & Speculation (for experienced Haruhi Fans only)

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth

his mouth is friggin open. She's all "O_O" and he's like "IMMA KISS YOU K"
wish she would have closed her damn eyes though...

The problem with the anime kiss (imo) is Haruhi just stands there, totally passive, and basically just takes it.

At least in the novel kiss she's actually showing some real emotion - first with the shocked eyes, and then with her actively leaning in against Kyon, while arching her upper body upwards to more fully get into the moment. She's clearly into the kiss, here, yeah.

The novel kiss (which is, yes, the canon kiss) is a great moment for KyonHaruhi shippers to point to.

But... I wouldn't call this making out. That's all.

[AmyElizzabeth]

I'm a HaruhiKyon shipper!
And It's one of the only moments...ugh. Still cute though
Maybe in novel 10 we'll get more kisses?
At the end, hopefully. Preferably the beginning though

[GMT]

Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth

While reading the novels. the picture and discription led me to believe they were making out.

Eh. To me, the novel text and illustration convey about as much eroticism and "making-out" potential as the anime kiss. Kyon pulls her in and kisses her for everything he's worth in both cases, and she's standing there going "OMGWTF??? a BOY is KISSING ME!!11" the whole time. The important bit in any case is that it makes her stop destroying the cosmos and everything in it.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by GMT

Eh. To me, the novel text and illustration convey about as much eroticism and "making-out" potential as the anime kiss. Kyon pulls her in and kisses her for everything he's worth in both cases, and she's standing there going "OMGWTF??? a BOY is KISSING ME!!11" the whole time. The important bit in any case is that it makes her stop destroying the cosmos and everything in it.

Given that Kyon's stance in the novel pic looks like a pretty relaxed one to me (especially for someone kissing a girl), I like to think that Haruhi is actively kissing back there. Still, I guess that you could be right, yeah.

[GMT]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Given that Kyon's stance in the novel pic looks like a pretty relaxed one to me (especially for someone kissing a girl), I like to think that Haruhi is actively kissing back there. Still, I guess that you could be right, yeah.

The Ito illustration, and the novel text are at odds with each other. In the novel, Kyon says:

Spoiler for To save space:

Her black eyes appeared to reject me. As Haruhi raised her voice in protest, I forced my lips onto hers. It's expected to close your eyes in such situations so I did, which is why I didn't see the expression on Haruhi's face. Maybe her eyes were wide open in shock. Maybe her eyes were closed like mine. Maybe she had her arm raised over her head about to smack me. I have no way of knowing. But I wouldn't have noticed being smacked right then. I'm willing to bet that anyone in this situation with Haruhi would feel the same way. I strengthened my grip on her shoulders. I didn't want to let go just yet.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by GMT

The Ito illustration, and the novel text are at odds with each other. In the novel, Kyon says:

Spoiler for To save space:

Her black eyes appeared to reject me. As Haruhi raised her voice in protest, I forced my lips onto hers. It's expected to close your eyes in such situations so I did, which is why I didn't see the expression on Haruhi's face. Maybe her eyes were wide open in shock. Maybe her eyes were closed like mine. Maybe she had her arm raised over her head about to smack me. I have no way of knowing. But I wouldn't have noticed being smacked right then. I'm willing to bet that anyone in this situation with Haruhi would feel the same way. I strengthened my grip on her shoulders. I didn't want to let go just yet.

Aahhh... now I see why KyoAni did the kiss with Kyon's hands on Haruhi's shoulders instead of them on Haruhi's hips (the latter being more erotic, imo).

KyoAni went with the novel text description instead of with the Ito illustration. Kind of funny that KyoAni is so faithful to source material that they're even more faithful to it than the source material pics themselves are.

Thanks for the info, GMT.

[bhl88]

And the Epilogue... just like Harry Potter/Ragnarok the Anime would be:

Haruhi running to Kyon with a ring in her hand (and in his)... 15 years later (they get married). And a little carriage prepared for them (Mikuru, Yuki and Koizumi, Taniguchi, Kunikuda and Tsuruya-san pulling the carriage... no I'm just kidding with the carriage part...). I mean Tsuruya-san's limousine lol.

The problem is the Sasaki brigade though...

Either Sasaki will fight a protracted war or....
Sasaki will be somewhere else now that Kyon has found his... soulmate/girlfriend... something...

[quigonkenny]

None of the depictions qualifies as "making out" to me, unless you can count a single one-sided (interrupted) kiss as "making out". I don't.

Novel (prose) kiss is Kyon grabbing Haruhi's shoulders and "taking one for the team" (ignore your inner shipper and read the true undertone of his narration). Anime kiss is the same, but does seem to imply he doesn't mind as much (I blame Sugita's voice acting ^_^).

On the other hand, novel (illustration) kiss is Kyon grabbing her waist, pulling her towards him and doing his best paperback Fabio/Han in Empire "I'm gonna kiss you and look like a badass doing it" (note the pre-emptive holding back of her potentially slapping hand, for the submission junkies out there), but it's still just one kiss. Noizi Ito can be forgiven the embellishment, as she has been an eroge artist...

[ac195]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

None of the depictions qualifies as "making out" to me, unless you can count a single one-sided (interrupted) kiss as "making out". I don't.

Novel (prose) kiss is Kyon grabbing Haruhi's shoulders and "taking one for the team" (ignore your inner shipper and read the true undertone of his narration). Anime kiss is the same, but does seem to imply he doesn't mind as much (I blame Sugita's voice acting ^_^).

On the other hand, novel (illustration) kiss is Kyon grabbing her waist, pulling her towards him and doing his best paperback Fabio/Han in Empire "I'm gonna kiss you and look like a badass doing it" (note the pre-emptive holding back of her potentially slapping hand, for the submission junkies out there), but it's still just one kiss. Noizi Ito can be forgiven the embellishment, as she has been an eroge artist...

How many times does it need to be typed.

Kyon = male tsundere when it comes to Haruhi.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by ac195

How many times does it need to be typed.

Kyon = male tsundere when it comes to Haruhi.

This I totally agree with. Kyon definitely strikes me as a male tsundere.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Kyon constantly mentions how hot Haruhi either is or could be, depending on her behavior and his mood. The only time he's even remotely done that with Nagato is all the way back in Melancholy, when he was wondering what she'd look like in one of the costumes Haruhi had planned for Mikuru.

There's the real difference, he rather obviously has a physical attraction to Haruhi.

[typhonsentra]

There's a few lines about him being attracted to her in Vol. 4 too but usually he's pretty indifferent to her appearance. He was even surprised Nakamura, that friend of his, had a crush on her in that short story and that Taniguchi considered upper tier in attractiveness. He called him a "Nagato Fanatic" even though his ranking still placed her below Mikuru.

[Triple_R]

... Kyon has referred to Nagato (in narration) as his goddess... I think that indicates a level of considerable attraction.

[Ricky Controversy]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

There's a few lines about him being attracted to her in Vol. 4 too but usually he's pretty indifferent to her appearance. He was even surprised Nakamura, that friend of his, had a crush on her in that short story and that Taniguchi considered upper tier in attractiveness. He called him a "Nagato Fanatic" even though his ranking still placed her below Mikuru.

Nakagawa, I think, and if his initial reaction was surprise, it quickly turned into a sort of admiration. He sees Haruhi is very attractive (and she is!) physically, but he also thinks the same of Yuki, but he specifically says not that he's surprised anyone would, but that she is a special type of attractive, one which you must have a refined sense of taste to appreciate. In short, to Kyon, Haruhi is 'hot', but Yuki is 'one classy dame'. Haruhi and Mikuru incite his lust more--especially Haruhi when she has a ponytail--but Yuki is still some sort of beautiful in his eyes.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy

Nakagawa, I think, and if his initial reaction was surprise, it quickly turned into a sort of admiration. He sees Haruhi is very attractive (and she is!) physically, but he also thinks the same of Yuki, but he specifically says not that he's surprised anyone would, but that she is a special type of attractive, one which you must have a refined sense of taste to appreciate. In short, to Kyon, Haruhi is 'hot', but Yuki is 'one classy dame'. Haruhi and Mikuru incite his lust more--especially Haruhi when she has a ponytail--but Yuki is still some sort of beautiful in his eyes.

Actually... nobody incites Kyon's lust more than Mikuru does. Mikuru earns more lust from Kyon than anybody else does. Let's be honest here.

I agree with you on how he views Yuki, though. He's probably surprised that somebody with Taniguchi's taste could appreciate Yuki's more refined sense of attractiveness.

[Ricky Controversy]

Whenever I think about it much, I always find myself actually admiring that there isn't really solid shipping inherent in the story overall. We know Kyon lusts for Mikuru and also has a protective inclination towards her. We know he finds Haruhi very attractive (comparable to Mikuru, barring her obnoxious tendencies), and has grown close to her, but both of them are tsundere about it. We know he trusts Yuki above all else, that he prides himself on being able to understand her better than anyone, and that yes, he thinks she's attractive to, in a more elegant way than the other two.

That being said, Kyon's personality means that we never get more than a sidelong look at any romantic notions other than the obvious Mikuru crush, which interestingly, many people seem to have a consensus not to take that too seriously. I suppose my own gut feeling is the same, though why that is, I couldn't articulate presently. He has kissed Haruhi, but why do people act like that showed us anything we didn't already know? It wasn't intended as a relationship move, whether the parties involved enjoyed it or not. Towards Yuki, whatever he feels is masked by the steadier concern of understanding her.

In truth, Kyon hasn't been 'shipped' terribly actively with one girl over the other: heck, other than 'cuteness', this is part of Kyon/Tsuruya's foundation: she's just as eligible as the other girls, basically. I, for one, like this because it leaves the reader to reason things out based on the actual observable dynamic.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

... Kyon/Kimidori FTW!

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy

Whenever I think about it much, I always find myself actually admiring that there isn't really solid shipping inherent in the story overall. We know Kyon lusts for Mikuru and also has a protective inclination towards her. We know he finds Haruhi very attractive (comparable to Mikuru, barring her obnoxious tendencies), and has grown close to her, but both of them are tsundere about it. We know he trusts Yuki above all else, that he prides himself on being able to understand her better than anyone, and that yes, he thinks she's attractive to, in a more elegant way than the other two.

That being said, Kyon's personality means that we never get more than a sidelong look at any romantic notions other than the obvious Mikuru crush, which interestingly, many people seem to have a consensus not to take that too seriously.

... And I really don't get that consensus, as far as it exists. A guy doesn't constantly gush over a girl's appearance, like what Kyon does with Mikuru, unless he really means it.

Kyon doesn't act on it because... contrary to what some folks might say... I think that he does realize that Haruhi is jealous of the attention that he shows Mikuru at times, and he doesn't want to risk enraging Haruhi.

Part of the reason why Kyon hasn't made a firm romantic decision yet (one way or another) is that he probably resents the situation that he finds himself in. He wants his choice to be his choice; not something caused by external forces like the Integrated Data Entity or Haruhi's powers or Koizumi's organization or Mikuru's time travelers.

Given the current situation, Kyon doesn't feel free to make a choice that isn't unduly impacted on by these external forces.

I suppose my own gut feeling is the same, though why that is, I couldn't articulate presently. He has kissed Haruhi, but why do people act like that showed us anything we didn't already know? It wasn't intended as a relationship move, whether the parties involved enjoyed it or not. Towards Yuki, whatever he feels is masked by the steadier concern of understanding her.

In truth, Kyon hasn't been 'shipped' terribly actively with one girl over the other: heck, other than 'cuteness', this is part of Kyon/Tsuruya's foundation: she's just as eligible as the other girls, basically. I, for one, like this because it leaves the reader to reason things out based on the actual observable dynamic.

I largely agree. I don't think that Tsuruya is quite as eligible as the SOS Brigade girls, but Kyon/Tsuruya is not impossible to imagine. Like yourself, I like how the relationship dynamics are handled in the Haruhi franchise.

... Well, insofar as they promote competitiveness and different interpretations. If we get a set pairing at some point (the leading possibility being KyonHaruhi, I'll admit), I hope that at that point we finally get some real sparks flying between Kyon and the chosen girl.

[Ricky Controversy]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

... Kyon/Kimidori FTW!

[crack]Well, he does remark about the scent of flowers in her hair whenever he sees her...and if I recall, a different, specific type. Sounds like someone's paying some close attention![/crack]

[CrowKenobi]

Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy

I, for one, like this because it leaves the reader to reason things out based on the actual observable dynamic.

Not taking into account about how much of an unreliable narrator Kyon is...