US Elections 2012 Part I: The Primaries/Caucus

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I find it hilarious that Americans are claiming religious nutjobs shouldn't get their hands on nukes. And then we see the Republican Presidential debates...

The last decade had completely destroyed all the positive images I had of America as a child, that was installed via education from a pro-America country. You have no idea how pro-America I was.

I now literally see no difference between America and Iran, other than the fact that Iran is smaller and there is a tiny difference in how they are religious nutjobs. You have crazy politicians who say and do anything they want, and a population that is either uninterested or powerless to do anything about it.

[ganbaru]

Somehow I keep the faint hope than some of the republican candidate are only faking to be a religious nut just ot win the bible belt.
Even so, they would probably still be as crazy and dangerous .

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I find it hilarious that Americans are claiming religious nutjobs shouldn't get their hands on nukes. And then we see the Republican Presidential debates...

That makes it sound like we support the Republicans. I suspect most of the people on this board don't.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

That makes it sound like we support the Republicans. I suspect most of the people on this board don't.

That's because Anime watchers have a liberal bent. Animesuki is not a place to identify the average American; not to mention this is a rather international community.

The fact is people who want to be the next president of USA are acting like religious nutjobs in order to get elected. As in, they think that's what voters want. Or at least enough voters to get them the win. The only conclusion is that religious-nutjobness is somehow desirable in America, by at least half of the voters.

[Xagzan]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

That's because Anime watchers have a liberal bent. Animesuki is not a place to identify the average American; not to mention this is a rather international community.

The fact is people who want to be the next president of USA are acting like religious nutjobs in order to get elected. As in, they think that's what voters want. Or at least enough voters to get them the win. The only conclusion is that religious-nutjobness is somehow desirable in America, by at least half of the voters.

I think calling it half is a little extreme. Don't forget, as you even mentioned, these GOP candidates have to win the Republican primary for them to be the candidate in the general election.

Now, who votes in Republican primaries? Well different states have different laws, but generally if I remember right only registered republicans are even allowed to vote in those primaries. But even among that sample, the ones most likely to give enough of a damn to take the time to vote, are those who are passionate about issues, or candidates, etc. And that is the place you will find most of the religious crazies. It's not half the country. But with their seeming takeover of the Republican party, the crazy ones are the ones who the candidates have to appease in order to have a realistic shot at becoming the nominee. But the Republican base, by this point, I think is so far removed from the general American electorate, that whoever is the GOP nominee is going to have to do a colossal amount of backpedaling once (s)he's no longer sharing the spotlight, where the non-insane voters far outnumber the wingnuts, to try and convince people how they don't actually believe all that psychotic nonsense. That is, of course, assuming they don't really believe it themselves, or at least that they value victory more than their convictions.

I can't imagine any of these clowns being elected at this point, with the things they are saying now. Even if Obama continues to sink in the polls, I try not to be so cynical to think that Americans would actually let one of these people into office, especially given the abysmal track record of all the teahatter politicians that were elected in the 2010 sweep.

Then I remember that America was a dumb enough country to enact that sweep in the first place, and my doubts return.

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I find it hilarious that Americans are claiming religious nutjobs shouldn't get their hands on nukes. And then we see the Republican Presidential debates...

The last decade had completely destroyed all the positive images I had of America as a child, that was installed via education from a pro-America country. You have no idea how pro-America I was.

I now literally see no difference between America and Iran, other than the fact that Iran is smaller and there is a tiny difference in how they are religious nutjobs. You have crazy politicians who say and do anything they want, and a population that is either uninterested or powerless to do anything about it.

You think I want our religious nutjobs to have their finger on the red button?

Trust me, I can't stand the party of lunatics that is the republicans.

[Zetsubo]

Many US politicians are for the most part pandering to the common, ill-informed, fear based feelings of a specific group of the US population.

That said: People around the world and in any culture are typically fear driven.

Especially when they come into contact with a different language, culture and religion.

Many people in the USA are terrified of Islam... and the people who rule certain countries in the name of Islam.

After all, grandpa's war stories about the "git dern kamikrazy" stirs up images of Arabic young men willing to die for ALLAH and take little protestant Becky Sue with him.

Despite the fact that Arabic Young men would rather raise their own kids in their own lands and maybe little Becky-Sue can be friends online with little Fatima.

Sadly, 9/11 is forever the lynch pin of this fear. This tragedy is forever going to be the drumbeat of the people stuck in fear mode.

As long as there is a significant part of the population that feels that Islam is a threat, then they will push their political will upon the most willing candidate, and see to it that "no muslim country gets their hands on a shiny red button"

This is the only thing that will calm this portion of the population down.

Having a candidate that says and talks what they want to hear, to cool down their fears taht something is being done to protect them from "el hack hanif el somewhatafama"

It does not help, that this same subset of the population believes that the Jewish state of Israel must also be protected... "as Israel, and Jerusalem, is Jesus' home and kins people."

They truly believe that the people of Israel must be protected or "GOD may smite them." so they will send aid and money and weapons all in the aim to make sure that they do their part to assist "God's chosen people" and in extension get their own slice of gentile heaven.

Lets be reasonable.

Sadly, but truthfully: War is a political means to an end.


In the context of US -Middle East foreign policy, this end is not purely secular and capitalistic but it it HEAVILY burdened by the religious wishes of both the American Christian and American Jewish people.

We like to claim that the USA separates religion from affairs of state, but that has become a lie.

Church and Synagog play a very crucial part in the political will of this great nation... and right now as it stands... that contaminated political will has become ever more poisoned by fear and fear begets hate.

[Demongod86]

The big question is about people being justified in fearing those who first and foremost define themselves as Muslims.

I mean I find the whole thing preposterous. You're a human being. I'm not just "a jew", and I'm sure many young Arabic men and women are not just "muslims".

I mean honestly how dumb can Herman Cain be when he said he wouldn't appoint a Muslim to his cabinet. I'm like "WTF?!"

There are plenty of intelligent young men and women from the middle east. I've met a few of them. Some women are also exceptionally pretty.

IMO if people discarded the belief in the invisible man and books written by a bunch of imbeciles living thousands of years ago who made up these superstitions to explain what they had no scientific clue about, we would really make a metric fuckton of progress.

[Stiletto]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Somehow I keep the faint hope than some of the republican candidate are only faking to be a religious nut just to win the bible belt.
Even so, they would probably still be as crazy and dangerous .

Great. Crazy, dangerous, and incompetent. Exactly what America needs. Greedy bible humping thumping war maniacs intent wiping the elite classes' ass while the commons get anal rushdown on taxes and healthcare costs.

Why can't we get things in moderation anymore.

[solomon]

I try to be magnanimous.

As far as skewed primaries go, the same thing happens with Democratic groupies.

Other countries are going through the Islam is SCAARRRYYY deal look at Western Europe.

However, our country's political history based on individualism and lack of many people's interest in actions beyond our shores lends to people being creeped out by ANYTHING foreign. Which is why I cannot stand Irish or German heritage New Yorkers lambasting Muslims when they convieniently for get all the shit their predecessors had to deal with.

Frankly I don't think most average americans are really getting jacked up about the Isreal-Middle East issues anymore, at least not right now. I don't mean that as a slight to pro-Isreal peeps. But when people have trouble putting food on the table and getting jobs stateside, you cannot expect them to have their full attention on such exploits overseas.

I hate the Iraninan President, he seems like an asshat. Then again, I am pretty sure the Ayatollah DOES know that NATO would mop the floor with Iran so despite all this fear mongering I doubt we hit nuclear war.

Oh yea I don't think you can say anime fans lean any which way.......I think that's silly.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by solomon

Oh yea I don't think you can say anime fans lean any which way.......I think that's silly.

Anime is not American. Which political side is more hostile to anything non-American?

[flying ^]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Anime is not American. Which political side is more hostile to anything non-American?

i expect anime-as-is to get panned by both sides

left:
- PC-sensitive feminists
- think of da childrin'!!! crowd (using lolis for fanservice)

right:
- anti-christ msgs/themes

[solomon]

Im refereing to someone saying that anime fans lean left.........makes no sense. There are probably tons of conservative anime fans they just dont frequent these boards.

Anyways, is it just me or is there a new debate like EVERY SINGLE FRIGGIN WEEK?

And they never say anything different. Such a waste of money.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by solomon

Anyways, is it just me or is there a new debate like EVERY SINGLE FRIGGIN WEEK?

They just can't make up their minds on the "anyone else but Mitt Romney" choice.

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by flying ^

i expect anime-as-is to get panned by both sides

left:
- PC-sensitive feminists
- think of da childrin'!!! crowd (using lolis for fanservice)

They could attack a more usefull target than Anime: Advertising. Just thinking of the damage than it made is much more real ( the image of women in advertising and contributing to the sexualisation of childrens ) than what might have made anime in USA. But of course some would say than attack advertising might be as attacking capitalism...

[Zakoo]

Originally Posted by solomon

Other countries are going through the Islam is SCAARRRYYY deal look at Western Europe.

What?
I don't understand what you're trying to convey, would you mind explaining this sentence?

I hope I misunderstood this.

[solomon]

Take for example the recent legislation banning the full veil in France and Belgium (I think)

New immigration platforms by many right leaning (center and extreme) parties as well are running primarily in the issue of Muslim immigrants, not the least of which in the Netherlands. Part of such sentiment also arises from economic concerns worried about any immigrants (not just muslims) coming in and shrinking the welfare pie.

This has been documented before. Remember David Cameron's famous "Multiculturalism is dead" speech? In a way it's understandable in theory. As Europe is closer to the Middle East therefore are more likely to see immigration from such countries legal or otherwise.

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by Zakoo

What?
I don't understand what you're trying to convey, would you mind explaining this sentence?

I hope I misunderstood this.

Anders Breivik, the Aryan terrorist who bombed buildings in Norway and shot down kids at camp on an island, exemplifies the anti-Islamic feelings in Europe, though he chose to attack white Norweigians. Before he was identified as the perp, people assumed the attacks came from the Norweigian Muslims, and they were harassed.

As for banning the full veil, I dislike how that's used as an example of hate toward Islam. Retarded practices that violate human rights should be banned, regardless of which group does it.

[solomon]

Sorry man.

I really do admire the principle of Lacitie in France. But I don't think that every single time a woman wears a full veil it's a case of "Oh, she's being forced by a man but if we give her a choice she'd not". It's not impossible that it's a choice for a woman. I think that's the state going too far.

What's more I've heard it characterized as a SECURITY issue of all things. I've seen full veiled women for years in Philidelphia and no one gave a hoot. It's paranoia.

[james0246]

This thread has gone extremely far afield. Please remember, this thread is dedicated to the discussion of the 2012 US elections, and all comments and posts should be dedicated to the analysis of said election. While the topics removed (ranging from nuclear proliferation to the most recent discussion of certain clothing in religious practices) are interesting (and will be parceled out to their own threads a little later), they are ultimately tangential to the actual purpose of this thread (i.e. the discussions lacked the context of the 2012 election).

Rest assured the more interesting discussions will be brought back as their own threads.