(L) Aku No Hana (Flowers of Evil)

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by hyperborealis

I was wondering if this dilapidation reflects post-war conditions in Japan. Does anyone recall any cues that let us know when the action is supposed to be taking place?

Not really a spoiler, but just in case ...

Spoiler for The authors afterwords:

The manga is semi-autobiographical, and Oshimi was born in 1981, so it's probably what his hometown looked like in the mid-to-late '90s, though whether that's when the story is set is another question. The decrepitude of the town is likely some combination of the Lost Decade and all the kids moving to the city as soon as they graduate high school.

[Lord of Fire]

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

Well the hipsters who do ANN's preview guide are so pretentious that they're giving the show universal acclaim -- three 5-star reviews and one 4-star.

I can't say I'm surprised, though. This looks exactly like the type of show they'd like, and I can't help but agree with them. The simplistic art design and jarry character animation really does help create a tense atmosphere, especially when the creepy BGM is taken into consideration, which is what some people have said all along. I don't really see how that makes them (or anyone else liking this show) 'pretentious'.

This isn't a show for everyone, and the reviewers openly admit that. A lot of people hating on this show right now seem to be of the kind that like their anime flashy and pretty-looking with more or less unrealistic character design and behavior (hence the 'anti-moe' sentiment I keep reading about), and that's fine. In fact, I too prefer shows like that, but occasionally, I can apparently also enjoy ones that break the mold, that are vastly different from anything I've seen before. I don't see what's wrong with that.

[Fevvers]

Upon second viewing, some things I've noticed:

- Kasuga comes across in this adaptation as more... what's the word, elitist (in the manga, he just came across as pitiful and bland). He's soft-spoken but conversations with his friends reek of condescension (which I find interesting mind you). But then again, I thought the first episode felt more alive to me (despite the decrepit setting) than the what I got from the first few chapters of the manga.

- Soooo loving the BGM and ed. A bit leery with the OP though I do think the lyrics fit (hard to top Mushishi's The Sore Feet Song, heh!)

- That stare-down scene is really, really intense (someone described it as a Kubrick stare and I have to agree). I think the character design of Nakamura here gave that scene a bit more of a 'something's truly wrong with this girl, and not just cuz she's a yandere' feeling.

- Nagahama really loves voice acting that doesn't sound like they're acting at all. Very natural (and yes, reminds me of Mushishi once again).

- I thought the first episode ended where it should, and juxtaposed with the flower's eye opening and the ending song... powerful.

[Iby]

I guess a lot of people didn't like it not only because of it's lack of "moe" but also because it's not actually not anime. It's just a (badly?) rotoscoped dorama. If I wanted to watch live action I'd do that but I don't like these (tried Higurashi one and never going to touch any again). So yeah: I came here expecting to see anime and I was tricked so that's the reason I'm not going to continue watching it. I guess I'll just look at the screencaps of the next episode and that will be it. Also it's not that I hate show with rotoscoping - I quite liked Trapeze for example - it's just that I'm not interested in entirely rotoscoped show.
Oh and no matter how you look at it this Sawa is ugly.

[sa547]

As I mulled over this show while washing the dishes, I remembered watching some of those midnight art-house movies shown on WOWOW, stories of individual self-destruction where the main character is an outcast of society, a nonconformist or an unemployed lout who have failed in the rat race but harbored impossible dreams or desires (one such film I watched the week before was The Drudgery Train).

Or trapped in a relationship that starts from being innocent, to become dangerous and morbid.

Some Japanese writers, directors and novelists seem to be more interested in the less-traveled road, writing and filming about such deviants, rejects, failures, and the degenerates, the kind of works that are too "edgy" for mainstream television.

If this show were to be made wholly live-action, Dormeur is possibly right in that since Japanese broadcasters are merciless and very selective about what programs they want to air (does "lowest common denominator" come to mind? Most Japanese live-action dramas seem to be facsimiles of each other, which isn't surprising given the need for a salable show, anything that would please advertisers and corporate sponsors), this show would be rejected outright even as a pilot.

There is intent in the selection of animation style; it seems that they have calculated that if the show were to be animated "as-is" or "traditional", I'm sure it would've been lost into the sea of been-there-done-that of hundreds or even thousands of late-night titles over the years.

So they went to rotoscoping, which would be like tantamount to career suicide; this style would create controversy, make everyone pay attention, and become the focus of any discussion or debate on a wider scale.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

Well the hipsters who do ANN's preview guide are so pretentious that they're giving the show universal acclaim -- three 5-star reviews and one 4-star.

If anybody is "hipster", it's those that talk about how there's too much moe in anime, how anime is unrealistic for not having hardly any ugly-looking people (especially ugly-looking girls) in it, and/or how schools are overly idealized in anime... but then, when a show like this comes out, they reject it totally and in harsh terms. If the people who present these opinions actually mean them, then this show is the answer they've been looking for in many respects. Even if these people have issues with the show's execution, they should at least recognize where the show is boldly going against modern anime conventions to attempt to do things in a way that they wanted to see.


If ANN's reviewers were slamming this show, that would be hipster-ish and suggest possible pretentiousness, given how ANN's reviewers are largely anti-moe (at least relative to where the modern anime fandom is at overalll). The fact ANN's reviewers are giving this show high praise demonstrates that, like their opinions or not, they really do mean them. It shows consistency on their part, and it suggests the very opposite of hipster-ish pretentious, imo.

[Archon_Wing]

It's true. At least ANN is consistent. Though it gives me the excuse to consistently not listen to them.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

It's true. At least ANN is consistent. Though it gives me the excuse to consistently not listen to them.

lol

I'm not saying anybody has to like ANN. I haven't read their reviews in a long time as my taste in anime is pretty different from theirs. But I can respect someone without liking them. I respect someone who is consistent (consistency suggesting authenticity, imo), even if that means I consistently disagree with them.

[Archon_Wing]

Oh I know.

It's just fun to start a sentence, sounding like I'm about to offer praise or credit to something only to realize that I'm just there to trash them again. That's just how I roll.

[kuromitsu]

And if you look at the comments at ANN there are like five pages of outrage over their ratings. How DARE they give high ratings to something so objectively, unquestionably horrible! There's no way anyone could enjoy it!

[totoum]

While I have no issues with people liking the episode and giving it a good score I do have issues with people like Rebecca Silverman basically going "well,I didn't like this but I'll give it a 5 anyway just because it's different" to me that's pretty darn shallow.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by totoum

While I have no issues with people liking the episode and giving it a good score I do have issues with people like Rebecca Silverman basically going "well,I didn't like this but I'll give it a 5 anyway just because it's different" to me that's pretty darn shallow.

Well, she said that while she personally didn't like it, she thought it was well-done and different, and for this it deserved attention instead of being dismissed without even giving it a chance. Perhaps the 5 stars is too much after this but I can get behind her reasoning.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Well, she said that while she personally didn't like it, she thought it was well-done and different, and for this it deserved attention instead of being dismissed without even giving it a chance. Perhaps the 5 stars is too much after this but I can get behind her reasoning.

It's really more the 5 I have an issue with,giving points for trying something different,sure, why not.But a perfect score to something you didn't personally like?

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Well, she said that while she personally didn't like it, she thought it was well-done and different, and for this it deserved attention instead of being dismissed without even giving it a chance. Perhaps the 5 stars is too much after this but I can get behind her reasoning.

That sort of rating principle is completely stupid though. How can you give something perfect marks when you don't like it yourself. That's like giving the original Eva tv series perfect marks because of how revolutionary and different it was at the time despite yourself not giving a damn.

[jeroz]

please excuse me XD

Originally Posted by totoum

While I have no issues with people liking the episode and giving it a good score I do have issues with people like Rebecca Silverman basically going "well,I didn't like this but I'll give it a 5 anyway just because it's different" to me that's pretty darn shallow.

[Marcus H.]

The Anime News Network is only useful for their encyclopedia and news articles. Everything else is shit, but that's just my opinion.

[sa547]

Didn't care much about ANN, but what matter more is... well, how people elsewhere and on both sides of the Pacific have reacted to that first episode.

TBH, it's both sad and hilarious, the show just exposed the heavy schisms between groups of anime viewers.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat

That sort of rating principle is completely stupid though. How can you give something perfect marks when you don't like it yourself. That's like giving the original Eva tv series perfect marks because of how revolutionary and different it was at the time despite yourself not giving a damn.

As I said, giving it perfect score may be too much after that opinion - perhaps the best idea would've been to skip the rating. But I can get behind her reasoning. If I was asked to rate, I don't know, Clannad or Air or another of those shows I'd probably say the same (without the star rating), because they're so completely outside my sphere of interests that I wouldn't know what to do. I don't like them, I don't care about them, but it's not like they're bad, and they're worth checking out if one is into that sort of thing.

[Kirarakim]

If I was giving the show a rating just for mood and atmosphere I would give it at 5. However the story and characters haven't gripped me yet so my final score would probably be a 3.

[Soliloquy]

Well personally every Anime pages are about the same for me except a few blogs. They either underrate or overrate them with irrational reasons.

This anime has such an overreaction only because the original manga had rather a sizable following of teenagers with massive expectations. Zerxs bit themselves on the foot from the beginning by choosing to adapt this manga already well-known and adored mostly by adolescent fanbase. It wouldn't have come to this if the studios like Madhouse or WhiteFox adopted it. Even if they choose to rotoscope the whole art design, they have the tools and budget to execute this anime perfectly. I find Zerxs still pretty decent studio as long as they play it safe. Anyways, it seems the director seemed to have made a mistake of rotoscoping at the lack of time and resources in the wrong studio.

And I really think it's somewhat unfair to jump to conclusion after watching only the pilot episode. I mean this is what I expected from anime fanbase. Personally since I didn't really follow this manga, I can't say much about this episode. Still I have this impression that all the detractors will keep finding something to complain about every episodes instead of going and forgetting about this.