2013-01-12, 22:06 | Link #161 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Unless it's even lower and has become a tertiary reason. |
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2013-01-12, 22:20 | Link #162 | |
Stüldt Hĺjt!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: On the corner
Age: 34
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Heh. Calling something "just your opinion" is not a license to dismiss the content of the post. We can talk about our subjective experiences objectively.
Anyway, I was writing a long post but I noticed that relentlessflame had already summed up the thread, as always. Quote:
That's why trying to establish the tone of the show is very important. Just what kind of show is this? What should I expect? I really can't picture Rainbow or Shigurui having Strike Witches-esque fanservice. That would absolutely break the immersion. I think the aforementioned shows are "serious" shows. Or rather, to use a somewhat notorious term, they are "mature" shows. In my view, crotch shots and blatant fanservice have no place in a serious work of art. So my thinking is somewhat binary: it's either/or. Now, is all fanservice a conceptual flaw? I don't think so. I think there is a "scale": on one end we have SW ass shots and on the other we have, for example, the Hitagi shower scene in Bakemonogatari. I would argue that calling the shower scene in Bakemonogatari "fanservice" is doing a disservice to the whole scene; it's much more than just a naked 2-D model taking a shower. It establishes Hitagi's character and provides new insight into the relationship between Araragi and Hitagi. Of course, all the fun ensues when different people's conceptions of "mature" and "serious" collide. It's not the deaths per se, I think, but rather the feeling of suspense. This character I'm watching could really die. He could really get hurt. Some shows simply don't have that kind of suspense. I call those kinds of shows "lighthearted".
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2013-01-12, 22:24 | Link #163 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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A significant contributing reason to why I don't see Nanoha that serious is there's basically never death. You also have to take into consideration the context of the series itself. I never made a broad sweeping claim about anything here. I also am not trying to play it off as an insignificant issue. Sorry if this is too hard to understand, but if you are trying to make some sort of point out of all this you lost me long ago.
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2013-01-12, 22:28 | Link #164 | |
reading #hikaributts
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2013-01-12, 22:34 | Link #167 | |||
Classics never age
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Italy
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Which is kind of different from the majority of hentai out there. Quote:
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2013-01-12, 22:37 | Link #169 | |
Stüldt Hĺjt!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: On the corner
Age: 34
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I think it's exactly this feeling of suspense that separates the lighthearted shows from the more serious ones. It all comes back to the general tone of the show.
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2013-01-12, 22:41 | Link #170 | ||
On a mission
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2013-01-12, 22:48 | Link #171 | |
Classics never age
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Italy
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Context: ecchi/fanservice anime - Primary purpose: arousal. Context: biology - Primary purpose (of sex): Reproduction. |
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2013-01-12, 22:49 | Link #172 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Anyway, as was pointed out, we're in the phase of repeating opinions now, and the thread has also devolved into some other odd tangents too. So I'm tempted to say the conversation has basically run its course and may be heading for a lock, but we'll see. That's... quite an assertion you've made. Then again, I personally wouldn't say that "ecchi/fanservice anime" is a genre. Usually, the genre is "romantic comedy", or "harem action" or some other combination. So if I watch a romantic comedy more for the comedy, then the fanservice/"ecchi" tends to support that. You're not necessarily going to be aroused; you may just laugh. I'm not sure that I can really agree with your assertion, all in all. But as was said, opinions...
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-01-13 at 00:16. Reason: moved tangent to other thread |
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2013-01-12, 22:51 | Link #173 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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The tone is not light with examples like when you have a character who is clone who could not take the place of the original in the eyes of a mother. So that mother pretty much discards the clone and only uses her to ressurect her deceased child. Or the harsh recovery that Nanoha had to live thorugh after she nearly died from a mission in a flashback in Strikers due to her own inability to see her own limits at that time. edit: That's the same as saying that the primary purpose of an eroge is arousal because it always has sex scenes in it, which is very often not true for lot of people. |
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2013-01-12, 23:03 | Link #174 | |
On a mission
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Which is fine. I just happen to be more interested in the numerous collateral ones which to the subjective view ultimately can end up as a significant peripheral demographic. While you could be right to generalize by the default, there's a lot of smaller and yet still valid ones. I think Relentless sorta got this point better than myself, though.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-01-13 at 00:16. Reason: moved tangent to other thread |
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2013-01-12, 23:11 | Link #175 |
Stüldt Hĺjt!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: On the corner
Age: 34
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One of my pet peeves is the "subjetive vs. fact" debate. Yes, you hated something or you loved something. Those are facts. You really did love/hate a series.
I'm only interested in the why. When we are discussing works of art, the're are no factual differences. There are only qualitative differences between different arguments. Why exactly do you think what you think? Yes, A loved C. And yes, B hated C. But why? All the fun ensues from a clash of different set of priorities: someone might focus on logical storytelling while someone else might focus on visual and "artistic" aspects of a show. Etc. Discussion happens in a free marketplace of ideas. Ideally. edit: Posting before lock.
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2013-01-12, 23:17 | Link #176 | ||
Classics never age
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Italy
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Plus, it's not like the two things are mutually exclusive. You may laugh at it while also feeling aroused. |
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2013-01-12, 23:19 | Link #177 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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It's in the same way that I can say that I don't treat the fanservice in most anime as a venue to be "aroused". Usually it's more cute and silly than anything else. And that's pretty much why I can sometimes even forget that it's there when there's something else going on. It's just a part of the scene, but my attention isn't focused on that to the exclusion of everyone else. (Of course it depends on the show and the nature of the scenes.) But all this thread just goes to say that every person sees things differently, even if they're all "seeing" the same thing. The brain is a marvellous and mysterious thing... Quote:
Indeed. Discussion is the process of understanding how (and perhaps some snippet of why) each person sees things differently. Again, ideally. That's why things like personal attacks are forbidden because then people are just yelling at each other, rather than expounding their own point of view.
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2013-01-12, 23:20 | Link #178 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Indeed there is nothing wrong inherently with fanservice. It's all about how it's employed and that is the more general point I have been trying to make. In the case of something like VRO, well I cannot say. Strike Witches made exceptionally poor use of it though.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-01-13 at 00:15. Reason: moved tangent to other thread |
2013-01-12, 23:23 | Link #179 |
Last Engage
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
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This is me, right here. And while I will admit that the sex slapstick comedy is something people may be tired of, that's often not the only kind of comedy found in romantic comedies. So to me, the fanservice is simply a venue for one kind of joke, and if it doesn't land, there's probably another one coming up in a few minutes. Something like Seitokai Yakuindomo works entirely on this principal. It does have some fanservice and more than a few smutty elements, but it's doing it to draw out laughs instead.
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2013-01-12, 23:28 | Link #180 | |||
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I think it's reasonable to make these 2 assumptions: -- A loving couple may end up having sex. -- A loving couple will do other things other than having sex. I mean it makes perfect sense, if it's put together well. I really can't judge it badly. So yea, I don't think it'd be right for the commonly held opinion of people on the outside to dismiss it as just porn. But this isn't easy. I do sometimes, and I would like to blame it on living in a very sex negative yet very sexualized society. Quote:
BTW, I made a quip before VRO aired.. Quote:
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