[Manga] Naruto Chapter 643 Discussion Thread

[Souten no Seigyoku]

I smell another Naruto power up coming as he merges both Kyuubi halves into one.

On another note, I should have known that Minato was a Jinchuriki too since he took half of the kyuubi within himself and had the same kyuubi mode as Naruto.

[Tchadnis]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

oh i hope this is correct. that is an awful idea for naruto to be born on the day of rin's death. i am so sick of hearing about rin...

next thing we'll find out is that orange was rin's favorite color and spirals were her favorite shape so it's all destined that naruto wore that particular outfit...

i could care less if he is born the same day as rin death, but if in the end everything about naruto turn around Rin like juubito and his speech i will be pissed ..

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

I just notice Sasuke's jealousy eyes when Naruto used Senjutsu
it's like.... damn! If I know about this jutsu, I won't kill Orochimaru yet

yea he was 'miring...boy was he 'miring lol
i wouldnt call it jealousy tho. he actually seemed impressed...

1. and regarding the badassness goings on in the background:
like a thousand chapters ago, madara shook the world with a perfect susanoo terrifying the 5 kages...now we have hashirama back there playing patty cake with the dogone thing. thats a bad ninja right there

2. wish other kyuubi wasnt cut-off. i want to know what was gonna come after "in the not-so-distant future.."

3. tobirama compares naruto to shodaime...kishi made this comparison before so I'm not too surprised here.

4. not likely, but its about time for kakashi to make a move...

[Cookie-Monster]

Madara really does seem kind of psychotic in his infatuation with hashirama.

All that world-ending stuff going on in the background, and all he cares about is showboating his new upgrades to Hashirama.

It really is kind of sweet.

[forcerounds]

It doesn't look like Sasuke can do much here without Senjutsu unless his EMS has special powers yet revealed to us. His sharingan powers are perhaps the most vague in the entire series. So far I can only tell that his control over Ameterasu is much greater than Itachi's and that his Susanoo prefers long-range attacks. This isn't impressive enough.

Sasuke might be more useful if he were to distract Madara so that Hashirama can deal with the bijuudama, and use his senjutsu on Obito. Now that'd be a fight worth having panel time.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by forcerounds

It doesn't look like Sasuke can do much here without Senjutsu unless his EMS has special powers yet revealed to us

EMS could play a part, but sasuke was using nature energy/chakra before naruto so i wouldn't count him out just yet. even if he doesn't have sage mode, he still must have improved his kirin abilities since the itachi fight. this chapter was just about him learning that nature chakra was necessary. it wasn't said that he couldn't use it or be effective here

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by The Small One

What has Kirin to do with Nature Chakra?
It's just a normal elemental manipulation like Sasuke has done it countless time before since he learned the Chidori. The only difference is that he powers up his lightning with real lightning.

no. he only uses a small amount of his own chakra to control the natural lightning. the technique is not made up of his own chakra. he was actually out of chakra when he used it against itachi. he used his last bit of chakra to accumulate the storm clouds. so then he just manipulates the natural energy. i'm not saying it's the same as sage mode. i'm saying it's a precursor to him using either sage mode or some other natural force to hurt juubito like kirin or an even more powerful version of kirin. maybe he can make a kirin wrapped susano'o or something like that

[Hunter]

You don't even have to go with Kirin although it's possible it would work. Sasuke has unknowingly made use of Nature energy since part 1. That's what Orochimaru's CS is about, finding bodies compatible with Juugo's ability to natively absorb natural energy.

[Tchadnis]

Originally Posted by The Small One

He doesn't manipulate nature energy. He manipulates the lightning. That's something different.

right , no matter how powerful kirin is he just manipulate the lightning already present in the air or force them up with extreme heat , in the end kirin is just control over lightning using chakra , it still a ninjutsu not senjutsu .. so you are totally right on that part

[DKN117]

So... With this release of Chapter 643. Was this what SHOULD have, on a normal schedule, come out on the 21st, and thus 644 won't be out until the 28th? Or was 643's release a late one, and we're getting 644 this coming Wednesday the 21st?

[Hunter]

The former.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by The Small One

He doesn't manipulate nature energy. He manipulates the lightning. That's something different.

Originally Posted by Tchadnis

right , no matter how powerful kirin is he just manipulate the lightning already present in the air or force them up with extreme heat , in the end kirin is just control over lightning using chakra , it still a ninjutsu not senjutsu .. so you are totally right on that part

think about this for a second guys. your point is that lightning isn't natural energy...

also let's take into consideration not only what Hunter said about the CS, but also that Sasuke now physically has part of Juugo's body integrated within himself similar to what kabutomaru did with Juugo's cells to achieve snake sage mode

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

also let's take into consideration not only what Hunter said about the CS, but also that Sasuke now physically has part of Juugo's body integrated within himself similar to what kabutomaru did with Juugo's cells to achieve snake sage mode

You need a very hard training to become a real sage, both Naruto and Kabuto did that. It would be ridiculous if Sasuke randomly popped out some sage techiques just because Juugo healed him and once Orochi's cells were in him. Not even Orochi had sage mode, because he never trained in that. Sure he used natural energy, experimented with that stuff, but that's far from the power of the sage mode. In the future if Sasuke wants to become hokage he might first visit the 3rd place for sage training, but i think now it's unrealistic. Most he can do is to use sage+kyuubi mode chakra if it is given to him by Naruto, and we know Naruto can hand out chakra. Even regular ninja had a huge powerup with that, so imagine what powerup it would give to Sasuke if Naruto hands him a combined kyuubi-sage chakra, my guess is that will awaken the rinnegan while that chakra boost lasts (the two sons of the sage, one has the eyes and one the body, etc.).

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

You need a very hard training to become a real sage, both Naruto and Kabuto did that

it took naruto about how long? a week to achieve sage mode? kabuto also did it in a relatively short amount of time. so short in fact that many fans complained. sasuke should be able to do it even faster than kabuto. i don't expect sasuke to have sage mode, but it's certainly not an impossibility based on time or physical restraints. i do expect him to be using some sort of natural power in the near future to be hurting juubito as well though. sasuke can't be overly outshone by naruto in this battle. at least not for long

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

You need a very hard training to become a real sage

Heh. Very hard indeed.
More seriously the CS isn't Sage mode exactly but it's a manufactured form of Juugo's bloodline which allow the innate absorption and use of nature energy as a boost of power and shape shifting capability.
Sasuke actually has several years more experience at this than Naruto, has mastered its use and received part of Juugo's body if that wasn't enough.
It's perfectly plausible -and for once logical as well- that it would be thanks to this that he'd be able to be part of the fight against Obito.

Now I wouldn't be surprised if instead Naruto managed to share nature energy with everybody and their mother because I find this cheesy, boring and dumb which in my experience means it's likely to happen but to say that Sasuke can't do it on his own "because training" is complete nonsense.

Not even Orochi had sage mode, because he never trained in that.

No he didn't have sage mode (or perhaps only partially) because his body couldn't use it which is why he was searching people who could like Kimimaro or Sasuke in order to take over their body.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

it took naruto about how long? a week to achieve sage mode?

It doesn't matter, he succeeded where countless others failed.

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

kabuto also did it in a relatively short amount of time. so short in fact that many fans complained.

We don't know how fast he did it, but i guess it was in weeks. However he had already injected himself with the DNA from Orochi so i guess that helped a lot.

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

sasuke should be able to do it even faster than kabuto.

That can happen, as Hunter explained Sasuke had the CS and Juugo's cells, that can probably help a lot.

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

sasuke can't be overly outshone by naruto in this battle. at least not for long

It can happen, throughout the story we already saw one or the other becoming clearly stronger. For example before the timeskip when Sasuke sees Naruto summoning gamabunta and later the rasengan making a huge hole on a water tank, then after the timeskip when Naruto seems to be very weak compared to Sasuke. I think Naruto being stronger gives a chance for a last timeskip, so that we can see a Naruto vs Sasuke fight after the timeskip, because right after the war its really not a good time for that.

Originally Posted by Hunter

...it would be thanks to this that he'd be able to be part of the fight against Obito.

Now I wouldn't be surprised if instead Naruto managed to share nature energy

Last time Naruto shared his natural energy chakra with one of the pains, it didnt go well for pain
But as you explained Sasuke's body could handle it, which means the only one Naruto can boost with kyuubi-natural chakra could be Sasuke, others would turn to stone or explode or something.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Last time Naruto shared his natural energy chakra with one of the pains, it didnt go well for pain
But as you explained Sasuke's body could handle it, which means the only one Naruto can boost with kyuubi-natural chakra could be Sasuke, others would turn to stone or explode or something.

Yes and the chakra of the Kyubi is toxic and only Naruto can survive it... Until the author just decides that making a kilometer wide giant flying chakra cloak for ten thousand guys is cool.
It's lazy writing but if Kishimoto wants this no explanation is needed. You're just going to have the rest of the cast have a fangasm at Naruto about how amazing he is and how he reminds them of Hashirama/Minato/Rikudou Sennin and Jesus put together and then Naruto will shout that Obito cannot win because tomorow is ramen day which, and this is sad, sounds cooler than his actual one liner.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

It doesn't matter, he succeeded where countless others failed.

yes, but sasuke is his rival and sasuke is proven to be a quick learner at anything. Summoning? MS? EMS? just give him an hour or 2 and he'll get the hang of it

We don't know how fast he did it, but i guess it was in weeks. However he had already injected himself with the DNA from Orochi so i guess that helped a lot.

orochi dna didnt help the actual orochimaru achieve sage mode...

I think Naruto being stronger gives a chance for a last timeskip, so that we can see a Naruto vs Sasuke fight after the timeskip, because right after the war its really not a good time for that.

there may be another timeskip, but for now this is not the extent of sasuke's power. it would delegitimize kishi's story of the sasuke/naruto uchiha/senju dynamic over the past 100 or so chapters and throughout the war for sasuke to be useless at this point

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Yes and the chakra of the Kyubi is toxic and only Naruto can survive it... Until the author just decides that making a kilometer wide giant flying chakra cloak for ten thousand guys is cool.

I for once liked the idea that Naruto is given new abilities, he doesn't have as many jutsu as Sasuke, he's stupid, no genjutsu, etc., so giving him such "natural" abilities where IQ/understanding is not involved is a good thing. He learned sage mode in just a 1 or 2 weeks, and i think being able to handle chakra is a similar kind of ability. Also there's a huge difference here: kyuubi is willing to give out his chakra and it even has the ability to tune it to anyone. Back when it was "toxic" it was the representation of kyuubi's hatred towards humans, of course it would hurt them. Another one of Naruto's magic abilities is to make friends, so being friends with someone who used to hate you can fix the "toxic" stuff too. Sure the kyuubi becoming friends with Naruto was one of those things that weren't done quite good by Kishimoto, but still it was better than Sasuke's changes

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

yes, but sasuke is his rival and sasuke is proven to be a quick learner at anything. Summoning? MS? EMS? just give him an hour or 2 and he'll get the hang of it

Right now he does not have even one minute. Of course it would be interesting if he used Tsukiyomi on Naruto and then inside that genjutsu time chamber Naruto teaches him sage mode.

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

orochi dna didnt help the actual orochimaru achieve sage mode...

Well he never began the actual training process.
BTW i wonder if the current Orochi knows sage mode, he was inside Kabuto when he trained it so Orochi saving the day with his own sage mode would be quite interesting
But maybe the author doesn't want Orochi to have such a significant role any more, maybe he will only act as Sasuke's mentor in the future. Still i would like Orochi to have a more important role, he could make things more interesting than they are right now.

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

there may be another timeskip, but for now this is not the extent of sasuke's power. it would delegitimize kishi's story of the sasuke/naruto uchiha/senju dynamic over the past 100 or so chapters and throughout the war for sasuke to be useless at this point

I don't see why would it "delegitimize" it if Sasuke is temporarily weaker than Naruto. In this war they are cooperating, all that matters is how much each of them can contribute to the victory, and Sasuke can contribute a lot, since he has EMS to counter eternal tsukiyomi and possibly upgrade it to rinnegan and he has susano for monster-level battles, so if Naruto gives him a huge power boost using kyuubi-sage chakra (plus the chakra of all tailed beasts that previously he received) he can do a lot more than Naruto. He could have rinnegan with that, be able to resurrect even the entire army, he can have a boosted super-susano that is stronger than Madara's, he could break free of eternal tsukiyomi, etc. Sasuke has a lot of great jutsu (many more than Naruto) so he just needs a power boost to use them against Tobito.

Of course the "uchiha/senju dynamic" its important that they are on the same power level, but that's for the long term story. As you said its "dynamic", so it always changes who has the upper hand, the only thing that matter that when it comes to their final big fight they will be on exactly the same level. So i think the argument is if right now after the war ended should there be a confrontation between Naruto and Sasuke. And i say there shouldn't be, because the war was too epic and such a battle for the hokage position would feel lame right after the war. I think there will be other story elements instead of that. Anyway, even if Sasuke won their fight they would not recognize him as hokage just because of that, the position is not given just because you are the strongest. So right now there is no need for Sasuke to be as strong or stronger than Naruto. My guess is that the plot will require him to be weaker, so he will peacefully leave the village seeing how he needs to become stronger to challenge Naruto. That way Kishi avoids troublesome interactions between Sasuke and other ex-genins, he already did this trick multiple times to avoid situations that would be bad for Sasuke, for example when he promised to Naruto to fight him first instead of just killing the other genins easily. Sasuke has plot protection

[Monster0]

Why is everyone hung up on sasuke having a senjutsu ability?He represents the mind not the body.I doubt that kishi will let Sasuke become insignificant,his eyes( Itachis eyes )are the important thing for him.

So what's the difference between nature energy and what do they call the other stuff? So it seems chakra creates and manipulates matter and plasma ( in the case of fire and lightning )but it doesn't use energy?So maybe ninjutsu is like playing with clay and senjutsu/nature energy is like using the force.