2011-01-10, 15:29 | Link #7321 | |
Witch Hunter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Portugal, in the middle of nowhere :D
Age: 32
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Charles/Schneizel were respected by Britannia and images of power far too rooted in Britannians hearts to see them as true enemies. Lelouch wanted to destroy the "old way to rule" from within so that people that weren't renegaded could join who were with all their heart - Lelouch was not loved by anyone when he took the throne, so no one would empathize with him. At the same time, like you said, he didn't want to "live" and the Japanese force and all his allies already knew that he was a "prince of Brittania". With all of this he could "punish" himself by bearing all that massacre because it was the most dramatic and the fastest way to archive his goal.
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2011-01-15, 04:19 | Link #7322 |
A devine right.
Join Date: Jan 2011
Age: 33
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When I first began to watch Code Geass I have to admit that I believed Lelouch was going to be another cliche character with a horrible past and there for a while, I was turning out to be right. However the more I watch Code Geass the more I began to realize he isn't as cliche as I thought he was going to be. In fact he was quite the opposite, yet somehow in a way he reminded me of Kazuma from S-cry-ED. He's confident in his decisions, maybe sometimes a little too confident, but he's also got a side to him that is admirable. His love and devotion to his younger sister is unlike I've seen in any anime before.
I thought it was adorable, his love for his sister. Of course though she was kidnapped a few times and he couldn't prevent that, not everyone can. I have to admit however that halfway through the first series, I got a bit annoyed with Lelouch for some odd reason. Maybe it was because Suzaku was beginning to grow on me a bit more, possibly. All I know is that towards the end, I began to regain my love for Lelouch, and gain a new respect for him in R2.
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2011-01-15, 05:45 | Link #7323 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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2011-01-17, 14:39 | Link #7324 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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His martyrdom habit is quite consistent throughout the series. |
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2011-01-17, 19:46 | Link #7326 | |
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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First of all, Schneizel and Charles are symbols of Britannia's royal family, and as such they are symbols of Britannia itself. They are part of Britannian culture. It would take a lot to turn them into symbols of hatred. Secondly, what makes you think Britannians would listen to a terrorist, much less turn against their rightful rulers based on nothing but the propaganda from said terrorist? Going by his original plan, losses would have been in the millions if not billions of lives. Britannian resistance in Area 11 was fierced because it was considered Britannian territory, and it had only been colonized 11 years. One can only imagine the type of resistance the BKs would encounter once they tried to invade the Americas, which would be necessary to defeat Britannia. This is assuming Britannia doesn't just crush the UFN on every front fairly easily and forces the original BKs back into hiding. Britannia is like a WWII America, but unrestricted by morality or pretty much anything really. The Military Industrial complex is the largest employer in the empire, with factories pumping out Sutherlands as if they were television sets and kids lining up to join the army or become Knights and hopefully get promoted into the nobility. Britannian soldiers probably have better training and better equipment than Black Knights. Assuming the UFN can match Britannia in every aspect, the war would be a massive stalemate on many fronts, and the losses would be tremendous. Not to mention that Schneizel would just Flaija the UFN into oblivion eventually.
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2011-01-18, 00:04 | Link #7327 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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By that time, Zero had established a legitimate international body in the UFN, and was no longer a terrorist per se. (Lest we forget, the original Israeli revolutionaries back in the '30s/'40s were also considered terrorists at the time.)
And as I've mentioned before, Lelouch could quite possibly have went for Schneizel before he got a chance to launch Damocles into the sky. Other than that, the UFN had a favorable attack force advantage, considering Lelouch resorted to blowing up Mt. Fuji underneath them in the show as it happened. Beyond all that, just consider that per Lelouch's plan, he would have had to be worse than both of them, which surely would have implied even more damage. |
2011-01-18, 02:34 | Link #7328 | |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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I'll just say that why I can easily see Lelouch being "worse" than Schneizel (who the epilogue hints would have gotten less hate than the weapon he created, anyway), I don't think the same necessarily goes for Charles, who often just leaned back and let other people do shitty things, and who had had years and years to cause damage that may not have left such a big impression in the long-run, but was still pretty bad . Neither of the two went out of their way to appear "evil" or would have used a Geass for that. Lelouch definitely did bad things as Emperor, but I doubt he drowned puppies. Nobles, probably, but not puppies.
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2011-01-18, 11:10 | Link #7330 | |
Cadenza
Join Date: Dec 2010
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2011-01-18, 11:32 | Link #7331 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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2011-01-18, 12:16 | Link #7332 | |
Author
Join Date: Nov 2010
Age: 53
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2011-01-18, 12:27 | Link #7333 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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He became Zero and chose to take the "path of carnage" for the sake of creating a "kind world" for his sister...someone who never asked, much less wanted, her brother to do such a thing. Nunnally's kind world, from her perspective, would have been to live in peace with her brother at Ashford and have fun with everyone else during school festivals. No rebellion, no revenge, etc. And even in early R2, Lelouch openly declared that he would become evil in order to defeat a greater evil...which both C.C. and Xingke considered a paradox, since it can be argued that evil would nevertheless remain at the end of such a path. In other words, you are in fact correct. Shirley and Euphemia -not to mention Nunnally herself- would be disgusted by Lelouch's actions. All of them represented a completely different way of doing things from the beginning, not just in terms of what Zero Requiem turned out to be. But, at the same time, they all knew him well enough that, sooner or later, I can imagine both of them wouldn't be entirely unsympathetic to eventually recognizing his original intentions as being good, at heart, regardless of how horrible his actions turned out to be. |
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2011-01-18, 12:43 | Link #7334 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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In the long run of what he was originally doing, he wasn't permanently consigning himself to the dark path - it was more like he was doing those things out of necessity, or to an extent, because of his own issues. Because not long before the Zero Requiem, he actually succeeded in setting up a legitimate front for liberation against the Britannian empire.
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2011-01-18, 13:13 | Link #7335 |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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Hm, I have to wonder... wait, does this belong into the Lelouch or Suzaku thread? Oh well, it's about how Lelouch's command works, so it should be all right.
In episode 20 (invasion by China), when Suzaku was pretty sure he was going to die... why didn't the Geass kick in until after Euphie explicity told him to "live"? It's like he didn't realize he was about to die before, but that doesn't really make sense considering what he asked of Euphie. So... was Lelouch's command having a random day or am I missing something?
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2011-01-18, 14:25 | Link #7336 | |||
Cadenza
Join Date: Dec 2010
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2011-01-18, 15:15 | Link #7337 | |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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As for Euphie and Shirley... nah, slapping is for Kallen! Euphie would make him feel bad just by being so utterly Euphie, and Shirley would go find him a therapist or something. ...Echem. Actually, I think it'd depend a lot on the circumstances. I don't think they have it in them to be honestly "disgusted" with him, though - but that's just me.
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2011-01-18, 15:27 | Link #7338 |
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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There is no black and white, or good and evil in CG or our world for that matter Azul. The legitimacy of Lelouch's long term effort to bring down Britannia is irrelevant when it would drag the whole world into a war that a) would cause massive destruction all around the world b) cost millions if not billions of lives and c) he could very well lose.
That path is worse than not doing anything, or having a Zero Requiem IMO. Perhaps the only righteous way of changing the system was Suzaku's, which admittedly was very unrealistic.
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2011-01-18, 15:36 | Link #7339 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Actually, I would say both Suzaku's and Lelouch's way of thinking could be completely justified in a variety of different "real world" situations, depending on your principles and philosophy. Personally though, I'd be more inclined to change things from within if I had to make a choice. Revolutions aren't quite as romantic in reality as they are in fiction, to say the least, even if they are sometimes necessary. However, often they work hand-in-hand with a series of internal changes that make them possible in the first place.
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But if you've noticed, even in episode 18 of R2 Suzaku was able to think about giving up and dying for a few moments before the "Live" command kicked in, so there's a possibility of delaying the effect for at least a minute or two without being too inconsistent. Sometimes it's immediate, yes, but you could argue that depends on how Suzaku's own thought process works. |
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2011-01-18, 15:39 | Link #7340 |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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Aiding the oppressors in the futile hope that it will make things better? Not my kind of righteousness - I'd rather stick with Lelouch, then. He's somewhere between Schneizel's cold utilitiarianism and Suzaku's twisted "the means justify the end", and while his way of doing things is highly questionable, I at least think he has the right concerns, generally speaking. He just sucks when it comes to the way he deals with them.
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