2010-09-19, 01:18
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Link #3161 | |
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Adventure ∀logger
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Looking for Reason to hear it's voice
Age: 13
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Quote:
But it just keeps bothering me that I don't know. SOMEONE HELP.
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2010-09-19, 01:43
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Link #3162 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
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Quote:
 ). You'd probably use different honorifics for each of your brothers if you have more than one (e.g. calling your oldest brother onii-chan, and your second oldest onii-san). btw onee-san is older sister, not onii-san. San is not a male honorific.I think it'll be easier to see if I write it. Quote:
Last edited by Kudryavka; 2010-09-19 at 01:53. |
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2010-09-19, 01:45
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Link #3163 | |
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Speaker
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Quote:
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2010-09-19, 11:58
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Link #3165 | |
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~Official Slacker~
 Author
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 29
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Quote:
Thats how I think it goes.
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2010-09-19, 12:40
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Link #3166 | |
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Adventure ∀logger
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Looking for Reason to hear it's voice
Age: 13
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Quote:
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2010-09-19, 13:22
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Link #3167 | |
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~Official Slacker~
Author
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 29
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Quote:
The male to male is "primarily" used, but its not used like that the entire time, so it differs at certain points. But as said in the -kun tag that it says. Some (masculine) females get called (name)-kun, which means that other females can say it, if its that term.
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Last edited by Hooves; 2010-09-19 at 13:37. |
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2010-09-19, 15:17
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Link #3168 |
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Adventure ∀logger
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Looking for Reason to hear it's voice
Age: 13
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What I meant was Tomoya Okazaki, not Tomoyo... (my bad for confusing you lol)
So the question should be... I've noticed in Clannad Nagisa often refers to Sunohara with a san ending, and Tomoya with kun. If kun is male to male, then isn't her calling him kun wrong?
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2010-09-19, 15:25
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Link #3169 | ||
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~Official Slacker~
Author
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 29
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Quote:
Ok if its Tomoya's case, then Nagisa is using this to effect Quote:
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2010-09-19, 16:12
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Link #3170 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
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Quote:
And if you're wondering why Sunohara and Tomoya don't use honorifics towards each other, it's because they're delinquents, and they have that weird love-hate relationship (they hang out, but they don't respect each other; Sunohara thinks they're friends, but Tomoya says otherwise. It's really complicated, lol). |
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2010-09-21, 21:37
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Link #3171 |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
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kun(くん:君),chan(ちゃん),san(さん),sama(さま:様),etc...... they are called "keishou(敬称)",which are used to express respect to him/her.
These nuance is different by which keishou are used  kun: this is mainly used to familiar male. chan:this is mainly used to familiar female and young children. san:this is used to the person you meet for the first time.this is also used to familiar person to express general respect. sama:this is the most respectful word used to high-ranking person. 
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2010-09-22, 08:10
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Link #3172 |
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思想工作
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 32
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"Sama" also refers to royalty or gods, examples being Kami-sama or O-sama. My mom's surname is 王 (meaning king) and while she was in Japan people would call her O-sama sometimes. I guess they couldn't help it.
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2010-09-22, 11:49
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Link #3174 | |
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Adventure ∀logger
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Looking for Reason to hear it's voice
Age: 13
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Quote:
Spoiler for spoiler:
Thanks for all your help, I think I understand it now. One thing that I still have trouble with is the small words and characters that often fall after another word or letter. I had a native speaker try and explain it to me, and I still couldn't understand how they work. H・E・L・P
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2010-09-22, 13:11
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Link #3175 | |
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tl;dr
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 32
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Quote:
There are a couple kinds of small characters; the ones generally used are っ、ゃ、ゅ、ょ (other characters like the small versions of vowels are used in extended Katakana and informal writing/dialogue to indicate someone's shouting or drawing out a syllable). っ is a tricky one so I'll save that for later. ゃゅょ are small versions of the y-column syllables and they combine with the い vowel sound syllables. It's much easier to give examples. き = ki きゃ = ki + small ya = kya きゅ = ki + small yu = kyu きょ = ki + small yo = kyo に = ni にゃ = ni + small ya = nya にゅ = ni + small yu = nyu にょ = ni + small yo = nyo し and ち seem like exceptions due to English phonetics. They go: し = shi しゃ = sha (shya) しゅ = shu (shyu) しょ = sho (shyo) ち = chi ちゃ = cha (chya) ちゅ = chu (chyu) ちょ = cho (chyo) (the romaji in parentheses is never used in any romanization standard that I know of; I only included them to make their relationship to the y-syllables a bit clearer. If you try to pronounce them you'll notice that the y-sound naturally slurs into the consonant) The っ is a little tricky. It represents a "long consonant." By itself it represents a stoppage of air known as the "glottal stop" (you can look it up on Wikipedia). Otherwise, it extends the consonant that comes after it. For stop consonants such as t, k, g, d, p, and b (consonants that involve stopping the air briefly and then releasing it) you simply extend the stop-- in other words, you hold the air in for a bit longer before letting it out. In romaji this is represented by doubling the consonant. きと = kito きっと = kitto When your tongue rises up behind your teeth at the start of the "t" sound, all you do is hold your tongue there for a split second longer. The same goes for other words involving long stop consonants, such as はっぴゃく (happyaku; hold your lips together a bit longer at the beginning of the p) or いっかい (ikkai; hold the air a bit longer in the back of your throat at the start of the k). For fricative consonants such as s and z (consonants that involve releasing a steady stream of air through the mouth) all you do is keep the consonant sound going a bit longer; i.e. "hiss" the s a bit. いしょ = isho いっしょ = issho The っ is not used with m- or n-syllables, in which case the moraic ん is used, like in みんな (minna) or あんまり (anmari). Don't quote me on this, but I also can't remember ever seeing it in front of a g- or b-syllable, but I might be misremembering. I think this post is long enough so I'll leave it at that. Hope that was helpful.
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2010-09-22, 13:34
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Link #3176 | |
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Adventure ∀logger
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Looking for Reason to hear it's voice
Age: 13
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Quote:
That makes more sense to me the way you explained it, can you have the accent marks in with those combos? ’’, 。(up on top) etc...
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2010-09-22, 14:12
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Link #3177 |
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tl;dr
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 32
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Well, you shouldn't really think of them as accent marks because they don't mark any sort of accent. The dakuten and handakuten mark voicing.
By voicing I mean this: the consonant "k" is pronounced unvoiced or "breathily." That is, you make the shape with your mouth and force air through, but you don't really use your vocal cords. On the other hand, when you vibrate your vocal cords but use the same mouth motions, you get the consonant "g." In the end, however, it's just another consonant; there's no reason for it to behave differently from any other consonant. Hence you could also say ぎゃぎゅぎょ and ぴゃぴゅぴょ etc. Wikipedia has a comprehensive table of all legal hiragana and hiragana combinations, and the http://nihongoresources.com grammar book also provides an excellent introduction to Japanese phonetics. Here's the page on Hiragana. It even has audio files to teach you the pronunciation.
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2010-09-25, 23:47
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Link #3178 |
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Adventure ∀logger
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Looking for Reason to hear it's voice
Age: 13
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そです・・・ Next question!
Can someone give me a run down on Kanji please? I have Hiragana and Katakana down pat, and can read it (at a 1st grader's level), but I notice that Kanji is really holding me back. I have a textbook, but it doesn't go over Kanji the way it goes over Hiragana and Katakana. ありがと Also one thing I've been wondering is when I'm reading Japanese, I have trouble noticing when words begin and end since they don't seem to have. （私はこのトピックで多くの質問を求めるのが怖い。私は、トロールを考慮する必要はありません 。）
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Last edited by thevil1; 2010-09-26 at 00:33. Reason: ーーー～ー |
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2010-09-26, 02:32
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Link #3180 |
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tl;dr
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 32
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Kanji helps with the lack of spacing. Once you get more used to Japanese grammar, it's a lot easier to spot word boundaries. Nouns are generally followed by a particle to indicate their function in a sentence, adjectives end in い or な while verbs can be followed by all sorts of 送り仮名 (okurigana) to indicate their conjugation. Kanji actually help by condensing meaning into one unit. Far easier than dealing with a string of phonetic symbols. Of course, often times there will be long strings of kanji that you just sorta have to slog through, but that usually only happens with long official names. Mostly there will be kana to space out the kanji, give you breathing room, and tell you where word boundaries are.
As for learning kanji, I'm not sure how your text teaches it, but the way to go is to understand the more complex kanji as being made up of common parts and components. It's easier to remember a complex kanji this way; instead of thinking of it as fifteen different strokes, you can think of it as 3 or 4 sub-parts, plus a few extra strokes if needed. The brain deals with "chunks" of information much more efficiently; just like when you are fluent with English, you read words as the whole word, and don't really see the individual letters if you're reading quickly. That's because your brain "chunks" the information together; rather than seeing "w-o-r-d" you see the single unit "word." If you do the same for kanji it will become far easier. There are pretty strict rules for writing strokes and such, as well as very common components such as the box/frame. 口 is written first with a vertical stroke on the left, then a single bent stroke that goes along the top and right side and ending with a small hook pointed inwards, and finally with a horizontal stroke at the bottom, slightly above the bottom of the vertical strokes. Three strokes, and this frame forms the basis for kanji like 日 and 目 and 国 and so forth. All written with the same three strokes. Therefore if you start with basic kanji such as 人土工口日天小大王女子 (to name just a few!) you can then see how they join together with other parts to make more complex kanji such as 全 or 好 or 今 or 朝 etc. Just to give one last example (using the last kanji I mentioned): 朝 You can think of this as twelve strokes that you have to memorize. Or you can think of it as being made up of four smaller kanji: 十 meaning "ten" (x2), 日 meaning "day/sun," and 月 meaning "month/moon." 十 日月 十 Incidentally this means "morning." The tens don't really contribute to the meaning, but can you see how this sort of represents the border between day and night (the sun and the moon)? If you start simple, internalize the basic kanji, and work your way up, you'll have a much easier time (not that it won't be hard!). In fact, after a certain point you'll even be able to roughly guess the meaning of kanji you've never seen before!
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