Accel World - Anime General Discussion

[Flere821]

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

My consternation comes from the fact that Yellow Radio wasn't screwing with Black Lotus with confusion. He was battling her hand-to-hand, scepter to blade, in close-range combat. His basic attacks and defenses were "close-range direct".

An indirect defense would be a non-special ability that confuses, distorts or denies the opponent's senses, like Charcoal Smoke. Or perhaps the power to summon and control strong gusts of wind which assist one's dodging and throw off the opponent's balance and aim. Anything except "being basically really fast" or "parrying skillfully with a weapon."

Yellow is directly across from multi-range Purple. Just like Purple, Yellow is suspended between Red and Blue, favoring neither range. The Yellow King should be just as capable as the Purple King at fighting from a distance.

Indeed, his Silly-Go-Round has quite a range, and can affect multiple targets. But it's a special move, a desperation attack. Just that alone does not allow him to fight at range; even once his opponent is confused, if all Radio has is his scepter and body, he must engage at close range to deplete their HP even a little bit.

Sulphur Pot can fight at long or close range. He can wade into his Charcoal Smoke and attack his blinded opponents with his bare hands, or he can stay outside of the smoke, away from his target, and light a single small spark.

Someone else like Pot might release an opaque poisonous or corrosive gas to which they themselves are immune. They can then hide and retreat from the enemy until their HP is depleted, or sneak in and strike while they are blinded.

But even if Yellow Radio had a basic move to confuse others, how could that be used offensively without a direct attack? Confusion doesn't deplete HP, and even Silly-Go-Round was no so powerfully disorienting as to make his victims hit themselves.

It's possible that Yellow Radio has some form of basic ranged attack that he didn't feel would work against Black Lotus. Perhaps some form of throwing weapon, like grenades designed as something clownish.

It would be pathetic next to Red Rider's or Scarlet Rain's basic direct attacks, but then I doubt his scepter-work is a match for Blue Knight's swordplay.


But anyway, formulating this answer has given me more ideas.

In particular, the thought of a Yellowish avatar that controls wind. As a direct attack, very weak. As a way of indirectly controlling the battle through manipulation of the self, enemy and environment, an excellent Yellow skill.

Likewise, perhaps the power to control magnetism or gravity.

I'll post my reply to this in the LN thread, spoilers.

[Sunder the Gold]

I'm not sure I understand why Dusk Taker was able to steal Silver Crow's wings, but not Cyan Pile's Pile Driver/Cyan Blade, or Lime Bell's Choir Chime.

Spoiler for Technique:

I've seen it said that Demonic Comandeer can't steal powers/items born from deep psychological trauma, like the Pile Driver and Choir Chime. But if that's the case, why could it steal Crow's wings? Were those not born of deep trauma?

If the Comandeer can steal trauma-born body-parts but not external items, what sense would THAT make? Common sense dictates that it's easier to steal something that isn't physically ATTACHED to someone.

Me, when I was watching the anime, I figured that Commandeer failed because it was a special skill being used against an Incarnate Technique. Incarnate Techniques are said to automatically defeat normal and special abilities, such that the only defense is another Incarnate Technique.

Since the Pile Driver was transformed into the Cyan Blade as part of an ongoing Technique, it would have been immune to Demonic Commandeer. That's what I thought.

[Randrak42]

I don't think he COULDN'T take them but rather he CHOSE not to take them. Most likely he thought that the weapons he had equipped in his arms were stronger and better than Pile Driver and he also thought he had Chiyu under his control so he didn't need to take her Choir Chime.

[Sunder the Gold]

But he TRIED to take the Cyan Blade. And failed. That's what provoked the dialogue in the first place.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

But he TRIED to take the Cyan Blade. And failed. That's what provoked the dialogue in the first place.

Oh...didn't remember that part.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

But he TRIED to take the Cyan Blade. And failed. That's what provoked the dialogue in the first place.

Taku specified that Noumi had a limit to what he could steal. I don't recall how he qualified it, but basically think of each thing he wanted to steal as taking up a certain percentage of his "theft memory". If his memory bank were 89% full, he obviously couldn't take something that would fill 38% of it. He'd have to get rid of, in this case, items totaling 27% or more of what he had already stolen before he could take it.

Obviously, numbers are made up on the spot to illustrate the point.

[draxdeveloper]

i remember someone wsiynig that he had a limit of poer he can steal

[Sunder the Gold]

Noumi himself had told Haru from the beginning that he had a limit on the number of abilities he could steal.

Which incidentally means that, in stealing Haru's wings, some other poor sap finally got his ability back.

Assuming that the victim hadn't already been deleted from the game, either by Noumi or someone else. Afterall, it's not like Noumi needs to let the victim live, otherwise he would never have challenged Silver Crow to an instant-death battle. Not if it would have meant losing his wings.

I could see Noumi "killing" one of his victims before facing Silver Crow, JUST so that the other person wouldn't regain something that Noumi was forced to give up. He's a possessive bastard like that.

[Sunder the Gold]

Hmmm. Rewatching the Crimson Kingbolt versus Nidhogg fight.

The Mega-Machine is surprisingly mobile, given that jump. It's also amazingly tough -- the same special attack that blasted half of Black Lotus' health away with a glancing hit failed to do more than singe the Mega-Machine despite striking directly, with a sustained and more powerful bombardment.

Granted, the Mega-Machine was also guarding its face and chest with its arms, but the arms failed to display significant damage.


It's still an absolute joke; if anything, the stronger it actually is, the more like a bad joke it becomes. All because of that ridiculous activation requirement that cannot possibly be practical inside of a duel, and which the ever-changing environments makes so unreliable.

On a day when the UNF has plenty of metal, if he gathers it up plenty of scrap before facing any challenge, he becomes close to invincible. Easily the most powerful member of any raiding team, stronger than even higher-leveled fellows.

Does the unreliability and the reliance on planning and teamwork really balance out the power that he can wield under the right conditions?

[Tusjecht]

Higher risk, higher payoff is my bet. The more metal he can gather, the bigger the robot he can build, and the stronger the resulting Machine. Capitalised on purpose.

If he's caught in a stage like Rotting Swamp though, then he's screwed.

[Sunder the Gold]

For random duels, his power is nearly useless. If the stage is favorable, he needs enough time and distance from his opponent to gather enough scrap metal without being attacked or having the scrap scattered. (On the other hand, if he awakens the Mega-Machine, he doesn't need to fear close-range combat like other Reds, including the current king.)

For tag-team matches, his odds are somewhat better. If the stage is bad, he can serve as the sacrifice that lets his teammate win. If the stage is good, his teammate serves as the sacrifice while Kingbolt tries to gather up enough scrap.

For territory battles, the odds are even better, because there are more allies to cover for him as he gathers up scrap, or to win the fight if the stage is bad and he needs to be the sacrifice.

However, the odds fall back down against opponents who have fought Crikin before, or who have heard about the Mega-Machine Awakening. They know which stages render him too weak for his level (and thus a lower priority target) and which stages render him more powerful than his level would suggest (and thus a higher priority target).

In the UNF, Crikin is best off logging straight back out if the terrain is unfavorable. But when it is, he will more often than not have all of the time and metal he needs to become invincible. Especially when helped by allies -- and he WOULD have allies, because he'd be in ridiculously high-demand for Hunts.

As a Level 7, he was soloing a unique, legendary-level Enemy! Further, one that had been given additional powers through a Special Gauge thanks to being tamed.* If Sulphur Pot hadn't pitched in further assistance with Charcoal Smoke, Crimson Kingbolt would have become a Legend Slayer like the Blue and Black Kings.

Given that kind of power, why didn't he use it for the last three years in Okinawa? The Weathered Stage had to come up at least a few times, and without threats like Sulphur Pot and Nidhogg, or other Burst Linkers besides his two students, he would have plenty of time (and help) to gather up scrap, awaken the Mega-Machine, and go Enemy-hunting.

Yet, the girls had never seen that ability before.

(Which explains why Dolphin didn't see what the big deal about Level 9 was. "Only two levels higher than Master", she said, but she didn't realize her master was only showing sub-Level 7 power. She didn't know what a normal Level 7 opponent would be like.)


* Actually, it's possible that tamed enemies are actually nerfed, with pre-existing powers suddenly limited by a Special Meter. But Nidhogg had already filled that meter up with terrain destruction before the Mega-Machine came out, and then used Scorching Inferno pretty much constantly against Crikin. Functionally, the duel would have been no different if Nighogg had been wild, especially since Crikin was inflicting enough damage to recharge Nighogg's gauge.

[judasmartel]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

I don't think he COULDN'T take them but rather he CHOSE not to take them. Most likely he thought that the weapons he had equipped in his arms were stronger and better than Pile Driver and he also thought he had Chiyu under his control so he didn't need to take her Choir Chime.

Or that he considers CC useless since he won't be able to use it on himself. AFAIK, Bell hasn't been shown using Citron Call on herself. Otherwise, she would be practically nigh invulnerable as long as she charges up her SP gauge before her opponents could do her in.

[Tusjecht]

Maybe that's the balance for being so strong, he's only good in a specific field. Just maybe.

You've covered tag duels, which I agree on.

As for why he didn't abuse his power, i can only comment that of all the red avatars, they seem (at least) to have some of the best 'bros and pals' characters as controllers. Usually, if they're seeking friends and bonds...I imagine they wouldn't want to jeopardise that. Just a thought, I can't really back it up.

Why did Merrow and Lagoon not see it? Well, chances are, he simply went to the field to grind at night, remember 'day outside, three years inside.' And he would have to grind, he can't keep giving Merrow and Lagoon an unlimited supply of points without losing his BB.

And after they got to level 4 and could go to UNF, he ground less often to avoid showing his full power, and when hunting with them, let them shoulder most of the burden to train their duelling skills.

[Sunder the Gold]

Originally Posted by judasmartel

Otherwise, she would be practically nigh invulnerable as long as she charges up her SP gauge before her opponents could do her in.

Except that Citron Call's effect isn't instant, it takes time to fully rewind time.

Her opponent could beat on her while she's using it. If it truly rewinds time rather than healing damage, it then needs to work on rewinding this new damage before getting to the old damage. Beat on her enough, and she won't ever recover the original damage, leaving her with an empty SP gauge and nothing to show for it.

Further, Citron Call is blatantly telegraphed, so her enemies know when she's about to use it. She also leaves herself somewhat defenseless to use it.


So, even if she can use it on herself -- and given that all avatars are made for DUELING, it must be so -- she's not invincible if she doesn't use it wisely.

Also, no one ever speculated that Noumi left her power alone because he couldn't use it on himself, and that would be the very first concern.

[Sunder the Gold]

Originally Posted by tusjecht

Maybe that's the balance for being so strong, he's only good in a specific field. Just maybe.

Eh, it's possible that such a thing really is an adequate balance. After all, the MMO portion of the game is secondary to the Dueling portion, and that remains balanced because of the unreliability.

As for why he didn't abuse his power

How could that be seen as abusing his power? Using the resources given to you in the most effective way possible is just good sense.

There are no rules saying that using his Mega-Machine to farm Enemies is cheating.

Without any rules about how power should and should not be used, the only basis for determining "abuse" is moral ground. For example, moral ground tells us that using Brain Implant Chips to prey upon and torment Burst Linkers who have done nothing to deserve such treatment is wrong.

That doesn't make the BIC evil. It doesn't make using it wrong. Using it for the wrong reasons is what makes the action wrong.

Would it be wrong to use the BIC to invade White Legion territory for the purpose of sneakily Direct Linking with the White King and dueling her to retirement? Especially if your intent is nothing more or less than to put an end to her abuses of the Accelerated World and its players?

Why did Merrow and Lagoon not see it? Well, chances are, he simply went to the field to grind at night, remember 'day outside, three years inside.' And he would have to grind, he can't keep giving Merrow and Lagoon an unlimited supply of points without losing his BB.

Except he's very proud, and his students had been doubting him when he said he was known as "the Strongest Burst Linker".

Displaying his true power with harmless property destruction would have silenced all doubts.

And after they got to level 4 and could go to UNF, he ground less often to avoid showing his full power, and when hunting with them, let them shoulder most of the burden to train their duelling skills.

He got Dolphin up to Level 4 before they created Merrow. In fact, after getting Dolphin to the point she could reach the UNF, he needed her help to scrape together enough Points that they could then turn around and get Merrow up to Level 4 immediately as well.

This is a guy who can solo unique, legendary Enemies. He should be easily capable of soloing lesser Enemies one after the other in a marathon of destruction.

It might well have taken him a lot of time to get Merrow up to Level 4 after doing the same with Dolphin, but that's all the more reason that he would have had SOME opportunity to use the Mega-Machine while Dolphin was with him. Especially since she could help gather up scrap.

[judasmartel]

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

Except that Citron Call's effect isn't instant, it takes time to fully rewind time.

Her opponent could beat on her while she's using it. If it truly rewinds time rather than healing damage, it then needs to work on rewinding this new damage before getting to the old damage. Beat on her enough, and she won't ever recover the original damage, leaving her with an empty SP gauge and nothing to show for it.

Further, Citron Call is blatantly telegraphed, so her enemies know when she's about to use it. She also leaves herself somewhat defenseless to use it.


So, even if she can use it on herself -- and given that all avatars are made for DUELING, it must be so -- she's not invincible if she doesn't use it wisely.

Also, no one ever speculated that Noumi left her power alone because he couldn't use it on himself, and that would be the very first concern.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Sunder the Gold]

Huh, I just thought of something else.

In the lightnovels, KYH marvels at how unlikely it was for Crikin to find two people who could and did successfully install Brain Burst. She actually dares to hope that their outrageous luck will continue, and that eventually they will create a new Burst Linker society outside of Tokyo.

On the one hand, they might actually be able to do it, because one of their members is a precognitive psychic who's getting all sorts of useful visions. Figuring out who her Child should be ought to be a safe bet with that advantage.

Spoiler for More Text -- the Okinawan MMO-only Legion:

Of course, the further the current generation gets away from her, the more likely someone is ignore her advice and make a bad choice -- which threatens to put an end to the ONE working lineage they have, since it's just one long chain of Parents and Children up to the last one.

Still, Crikin is Level 7. That's high enough to declare himself a Legion Master. So long as every new Burst Linker is inducted into the Okinawa Legion, Crikin will have a greater appearance of legitimate authority... and the very real power of Judgment Blow. That makes it a little more likely that he can enforce Merrow's psychic selection process on his descendents.

And thus a little more likely that one corner of the Accelerated World deviates completely from the creator's intended model, because I doubt he ever considered or desired the possibility of an entire legion made up of one continuous lineage. A real-world and Accel World family. A clan, with a king-father ruling over his descendants.

A blood-related army that tackles the Accelerated World not like a fighting game or territory game, but almost entirely like an MMO.

Just one way in which The Supernatural is an Out-Of-Context Problem that messes up a plan born of human technology.

Now, on the immediate hand, this paints a confusing picture about the growth of the Burst Linker population. Burst Linkers NEED to make more Burst Linkers, because their cannibalistic economy chews through membership like a chainsaw.

Older Linkers who haven't reached Level 4 must be constantly getting retired from the game because they only need to lose 10 times to lose Brain Burst. LESS than 10, actually, since in the meantime they would have spent at least 10 Burst Points on simple Acceleration, for the purposes of experimentation, having fun, cheating, self-defense or bullying, and -- most importantly -- issuing challenges to other Linkers.

It takes 200 points just to reach Level 2! That's the equivalent of retiring two other Burst Linkers from the game completely. Those are 200 points GONE from the economy, which your opponents will never be able to win back from you.

Even if you didn't actually, personally retire two other Burst Linkers, the Linkers you did take points from went on to take points from others or lose more points to others, and then take or lose more points while those others went on to take or lose more points...

Someone, somewhere, gets the short end of the stick. And the only way for weak Burst Linkers low on points to survive is to find brand-new Burst Linkers with plenty of points and no experience. New Burst Linkers will be SWAMPED by these deseperate souls, and quickly either become another desperate soul, become a successful predator, or be retired.

Burst Linkers can only make one Child, and they can only try once, and they HAVE to do it in person. Maybe a failed attempt erases the candidate's memory of the attempt, so that the masquerade remains safe, but would-be-Parents don't know that. All of this means that Burst Linkers generally don't try to make Children very often.

And if the process is very likely to fail, even when you try to choose carefully? That just makes other Burst Linkers even more reluctant to try. And it all means that the addition of new blood into the system happens very, very infrequently.

So how the hell does this cannibalistic system survive?

The introduction of the Unlimited Neutral Field and the Enemies really doesn't help. Players below Level 3 are still restricted to eating each other for points just to keep Accelerating, let alone to level up.

Only Level 4 players can hunt the Enemies, and the Burst Point rewards are crappy when considering the difficulty, and considering the cost of the Unlimited Burst command. Every time you enter the UNF, you either have to team up and raid two huge monsters or fight two other Burst Linkers of at least an equal level in order to see some kind of profit.

Given that, how many Level 4 Burst Linkers would simply let Level 3 or under players defeat them, for the purpose of injecting more Points into the fighting circuit? The attitude is probably going to be "We Level 4 players EARNED those points, AND we earned our way up into Level 4 for that privilege! Plus, we NEED those points to keep going!"

So, yeah. Once you get to Level 4, your own need to cannibalize others is reduced, and other Level 4s have new reasons to not retire you -- because they need your help to hunt Enemies, and because if they hunted you, no one else would feel safe around them. A society of cannibals that needs to forsake eating each other lest each individual member risk getting eaten; but they can only afford this solidarity because other prey exists.

But meanwhile, so many Burst Linkers are retired from the game without ever reaching Level 3, let alone 4.

[Sunder the Gold]

Given how brutal the climb to Level 4 must be, it's no wonder that the author largely skipped over that period with Silver Crow and Lime Bell.

On the quest for each next level, Silver Crow had to run into many Burst Linkers for whom a single loss would spell retirement.

Unless he deliberately checked their Burst Points before challenging them. And unless, when challenged by someone who would lose Brain Burst if he won, he always offered a Draw... and if they always accepted rather than stubbornly fighting to the last...

Even if he didn't personally retire someone, he might have left a loser with only enough points left for one loss... and then later heard that someone else defeated and retired them afterwards.

Truly, if the series were set in the first years of the Accelerated World, the lethal fight for Level 3 and over would have been far more important. But in this current era, it's all about Territory and Legions.

[Randrak42]

Someone needs to translate the damn latest OVA already :|

[Sunder the Gold]

I'd rather they translated the light novels, which not only reveal more, but also actually advance the story.

The OVAs are filler, and don't even need a translation to get the basic idea.

In the first, someone is causing trouble on the interwebs, and Nega Nebulous takes her out.

In the second, the school is requiring Haruyuki to shape up in time for the annual health inspection, so his friends helpfully put him through a program of exercise and healthier eating.


Yeah, it would certainly be nice to have them translated, but the light novels are far meatier.

The only thing better than that would be a translated second season of Accel World anime.