2011-04-23, 12:07 | Link #801 | ||
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2011-04-23, 12:15 | Link #802 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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On this subject I pretty much agree with what Kaijo said; he said what I intended far more simply and eloquently than I did. |
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2011-04-23, 12:33 | Link #803 | |
simp for Lyria
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2011-04-23, 12:41 | Link #804 | ||
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Join Date: May 2010
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If everyone has the potential to be evil with good intentions (ie. 'mistaken'), how can you so definitely make the claim that you're right in saying Kyubey is evil? Just because you claim he can't have an opinion on it doesn't mean you are automatically right because you do have one. What's true is true, it doesn't matter who or how many people say it. Though in the first place, I don't think you can assign truth values to concepts like 'good' and 'evil' anyway. Quote:
Kyubey himself said that humans are an incredible minority in having individual emotions, you would find that in the Madokaverse, the rest of the universe is on their side. What would you do if they all voted that we were 'wrong' by about one billion to one? |
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2011-04-23, 12:41 | Link #805 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Although honestly, I'm not the least bit sure where you got the idea that they forced apathy on themselves from. We have nothing to suggest that it is not a default trait of their species, and while it is within the realm of possibility that they eliminated their emotions in order to be strictly rational, there is no evidence suggesting that is so. The closest we have to evidence is the fact that since they were in space back when we were living in caves says it is remotely possible that they are technologically capable of doing so. Personally I don't buy that, though. |
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2011-04-23, 13:02 | Link #806 | |
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Join Date: May 2007
Age: 38
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As Kaijo has just stated it all comes down to is comprise. How much are we willing to give up? As in is the lives of a few girls wroth the what we have gained as a whole? I sort of agree it was worth it in the end.
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2011-04-23, 13:13 | Link #807 | |||||
simp for Lyria
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2011-04-23, 13:47 | Link #808 | ||
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It isn't so much a matter of arguing as it is just having two vastly different ways of looking at it, since I can't really say you're wrong. Quote:
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2011-04-23, 16:27 | Link #809 | |||||
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They don't particularly care if the human race is killed off or not, but it's not like they're aiming to kill off the entire human race. Quote:
However, you're wrongly judging me, and I take exception to that. At no point did I say that I "support" Kyubey. I don't support him. That doesn't mean I have to wish genocide on him and his people. Quote:
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You don't need to go kill off all Incubators in order to stop them. Quote:
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2011-04-23 at 16:49. |
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2011-04-23, 18:00 | Link #810 |
18782+18782=37564
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
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oh my, here we go again. QB can never rest easy with this thread going around.
QB doesn't have to be evil for someone to hate him. We have a lot of evil characters in other anime but there are plenty who were likeable (or at least not scorned as much).
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2011-04-23, 20:15 | Link #811 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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You are saying if I having no morals, I don't need to be moral. Is that right?
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2011-04-23, 20:24 | Link #812 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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2011-04-23, 23:34 | Link #814 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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When they interact with us, on our planet, they need to play by our rules. What made you believe QB has the authority to trample humanity's rights? You think they are superior to us? Because they clearly are not. They are just an alien race, their moral values are not ours. So no way would you be able to claim it is okay for them to force their morals on us. This is where our opinions differ; I am saying QB can only follow moral values of his own when he is in his territory. You on the other hand, are saying QB can enforce his own morals on everyone else, even when he isn't on his planet.
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2011-04-23, 23:53 | Link #815 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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That Kyubey is evil in the sense of our own morality is unquestionable; I'm losing the ability to count the number of times I've said this on one hand. But by his own alien morality he is not evil; accounting for the fact that this is a legitimate fact is not a difficult concept. We keep arguing that he has to be evil but in doing so we keep coming back to him being evil being reliant upon adhering to human morality; if your argument is simply that in the scope of human morality he is evil then we can stop right now, since there I agree with you fully. It is that him being evil by human morality somehow makes him evil in the grand scheme of things that I disagree with. This doesn't make his actions better, not at all. But that he lacked malicious intent in doing what he did--and in fact had benevolent intent, for whatever reason--is a relevant point to make. And it is exactly that point that draws the line between him being fully evil and him being evil by human morality. I feel like I'm beginning to repeat myself here. =/ |
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2011-04-24, 01:22 | Link #816 | |
simp for Lyria
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"Fight fire with fire." as they say. |
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2011-04-24, 01:43 | Link #817 | ||
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Is that right? No. Is it evil from our perspective? Yes. But so long as he has a viable, explainable reason to do so and isn't just making little girls cry for the lulz, he isn't evil beyond human morality. Quote:
Seriously. Your entire argument hinges upon Kyubey being willing to kill girls for energy and failing to see the evil in it, yet you're willing to do exactly that to remove him? "Oh hey, guys, I have a great way to kill Hitler! Let's kill all the Jews and throw their bodies at him!" Assuming you're not trolling, that makes absolutely no sense. |
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2011-04-24, 01:44 | Link #818 |
Uncaring
Join Date: Sep 2010
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A few of the wonderful questions that i like to ask those who forget to question the very base of the entire argument.
i) What species created morality? ii) Do cows have morality? iii) What species judges morality Oh wait! Cows are moral like female cows protecting their young Answer: Do consider instinct and what difference morality and instinct Oh wait, farm animals aren't smart! They wouldn't have morality like smart aliens! Answer: This points to a certain arrogance in assuming all intelligent species are the same. Show me a smart alien that has morality and i'll agree. Without proof, the answer defaults to the original Oh wait! We shouldn't put people as the only ones to judge morality Answer: The species who created the concept are the ones capable to judging if an event fits the concept |
2011-04-24, 02:07 | Link #819 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Guys are we really back to the is QB evil discussion? If anything, episode 12 should prove that QB is not EVIL, he is simply amoral. Its race does what is most efficient and logical at that given time, hence Homura's words. "That is your nature, isn't it?"
Also, we were already slapped on the wrists by mods earlier about talking about a QB morality discussion :/. |
2011-04-24, 02:23 | Link #820 | |||
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What's logical does not necessarily mean it is just, nor does it excuse what they are willing to do. The fact that they are willing to do whatever underhanded, unscrupulous tactics there are to get the most efficient means is the very CORE of evil. |
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