Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[aeriolewinters]

wait, wait, no one bets against it... so no 50$

I don't see what's wrong with Kira's capabilities or equipment. It's simply a matter of portrayal. Certainly, S. Freedom's got alot of bling, but I don't think it's the terror people make it out to be. Really, if you're okay with the original Freedom, you should be okay with Strike Freedom since they're similiar in most ways.

I agree, switching from one extreme to the other made Kira this good however, Freedom and Strike Freedom does seem to make him rely too much. The times he was in Strike were pure gold when it came to skill.

But I certainly want Kira to regain his swagger.He's does not have that flair that he had when he piloted Strike.

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

wait, wait, no one bets against it... so no 50$

Clearly, I bet against myself.

Don't try and cheat me of my hard earned money!

I agree, switching from one extreme to the other made Kira this good however, Freedom and Strike Freedom does seem to make him rely too much. The times he was in Strike were pure gold when it came to skill.

But I certainly want Kira to regain his swagger.He's does not have that flair that he had when he piloted Strike.

Take notes, kiddies: an image song, grandiose poses, and severe pwnge of everything in existence =/= a man with "the touch."

[aeriolewinters]

What I meant was, I wished that Kira kept the Strike(or a simple upgrade of Strike). Freedom worsened his skills and made him rely too much on the Freedom's clear advantages rather than thinking up of how to make advantages. It's a clear difference, with Strike, Kira was always looking on options on how he can take down the enemy...In Freedom it's just pew pew lock lock lock, Fire.... and it really gets boring. I like Kira to regain his grit. Him not trying to kill people is what irritates me the most.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

You think it's impossible for Kira's ability to be downplayed and made more in line with "mortal" standards? I personally don't think he was as bad as people seem to think he was, but if it's a common impression, correcting it would be advantageous.

All they would really have to do is to improve the combat choreography. There have been legendary warriors throughout the history of storytelling, and most of the famous ones are extremely entertaining even though they were much greater than most of their foes. The problem is that modern Gundam shows aren't exactly rife with good choreography.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Actually if they simply say that the N-Jammers' battery life expired, one of the main advantages of nuclear powered suits equipped with cancelers evaporates.

Even this isn't a great deal since the limited endurance of battery-powered mobile suits was pretty much a nonfactor in Destiny.

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

But still, I can't see much in terms of Kira's possible character development... At least not enough to make him the main protagonist of such show. Same for Athrun Zala. Unless they make the "unthinkable" - they start to kill off important characters. But really, give me an example or some idea about them that may not sound cheap.

I don't think that there's all that much need for Kira to be a protagonist again. Ever since the end of Seed, he's played a secondary role to both Lacus and Cagalli.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Kira's fall from grace doesn't only have to apply to his martial ability. Would you be taken aback if he expressed impatience, anger, feelings in general? Fact is, Kira was disturbed and uneasy after what happened in Seed, when suddenly he was forced into action again by the attack in Desiny. After which he would wonder if they should or should not do something about the situation the world was facing.

Aside from impatience, we did see anger and other feelings from Kira in Destiny. And while his character wasn't particularly self-introspective, we know that he was nursing some misdoubts about what they were doing. For the most part, his decisions were subordinated by trying to support Cagalli's ideas.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

If it weren't for Cagalli's nerfage and Dullidal's apparent obession with them, they probably wouldn't have done anything in Destiny, even after the attack.

Without Cagalli being overthrown, Destiny itself would be a very different show. Still it's only a matter of time before Lacus turned her attention to Durandal, and this scrutiny would have certainly led to some sort of conflict.

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

But I certainly want Kira to regain his swagger.He's does not have that flair that he had when he piloted Strike.

Kira is also a very different character at that point in his life.

[aeriolewinters]

Kira is also a very different character at that point in his life.

Ummm.... Kill anyone of Cagalli, Athrun ,etc(you get the picture) and watch him go on some Killing spree...

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Ummm.... Kill anyone of Cagalli, Athrun ,etc(you get the picture) and watch him go on some Killing spree...

I don't know about that. Kira saw Fllay die right before his eyes, and the only person he killed was Rau.

[Nightengale]

The thing about Kira's character is that everything that had mentally and emotionally affected him had caused his character to be somewhat emotionally passive. It's not that he doesn't display emotions, it's just not as expressive as his 1st half-SEED self, and moments of emotional weakness during the 2nd half of SEED.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I don't know about that. Kira saw Fllay die right before his eyes, and the only person he killed was Rau.

Fllay was an important person to him, but she was hardly a bulk of whatever clung him to his spirit. He thought he killed Athrun, and despite that being a no less weaker emotional crack on his heart, he still willed himself to go on, despite being emotionally scarred.

If everyone important to Kira dies however especially Lacus, it might be possible.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

The thing about Kira's character is that everything that had mentally and emotionally affected him had caused his character to be somewhat emotionally passive. It's not that he doesn't display emotions, it's just not as expressive as his 1st half-SEED self, and moments of emotional weakness during the 2nd half of SEED.

True. I tend to think that it's largely due to Kira outgrowing some of his more negative tendencies. Still, he occasionally indulged himself in Destiny - the most telling moment would be how furious he was with Athrun in episode 28.

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Fllay was an important person to him, but she was hardly a bulk of whatever clung him to his spirit. He thought he killed Athrun, and despite that being a no less weaker emotional crack on his heart, he still willed himself to go on, despite being emotionally scarred.

At that point, Fllay was still arguably more important to Kira than Lacus or Cagalli was. In a way, my favorite alternate Seed work would have been to have Fllay survive, and to build the drama from that point forth. This approach would have been the ultimate way to exploit the potential character interaction.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

All they would really have to do is to improve the combat choreography. There have been legendary warriors throughout the history of storytelling, and most of the famous ones are extremely entertaining even though they were much greater than most of their foes. The problem is that modern Gundam shows aren't exactly rife with good choreography.

*Nods* Straight pwnage can be very good. Certainly superficial things like S. Freedom being "damaged", won't automatically have made any of the battles it was featured in good (it still had it's moments, although even those made it appear to be too easy).

And older shows had better choreography?

Even this isn't a great deal since the limited endurance of battery-powered mobile suits was pretty much a nonfactor in Destiny.

I meant the targetting and range aspects. Except for canceler equipped suits, MSes experience a large drop in their effectiveness at range due to the ECM jamming effects of N-Jammers. I guess it's the excuse used to explain why guided missles aren't used and close combat is feasible in CE.

[finalnight]

At this point I would say the seed movie is in the same waiting queue as the new UC series they have been promising since before Gundam Seed, lol.

As I see it, Sunrise's mecha priorities are:

Gundam 00 1st Season
Code Geass 2nd Season
Gundam 00 2nd Season

After all of these are produced could I see production of Gundam Seed the Movie being resumed (meaning Spring 2009 prod start, Fall 2009, Spring 2010 release date at the earliest)

Maybe check the GS VA's blogs and see if they have mentioned it at all.

And please, the whole "its still being made but 'top secret'" excuse is lame at best. Sunrise is not known for being very leakproof. No models have been rumored, not a mention on anyone's blog, nothing since May 6th, 2006 when it was announced.

I want a new GS production as much as anyone, but right now, it aint happening.

Btw, Gundam 00=Gundam Wing+Code Geass. Not saying its bad, but it is what it is.

[Pride]

Originally Posted by finalnight

At this point I would say the seed movie is in the same waiting queue as the new UC series they have been promising since before Gundam Seed, lol.

As I see it, Sunrise's mecha priorities are:

Gundam 00 1st Season
Code Geass 2nd Season
Gundam 00 2nd Season

After all of these are produced could I see production of Gundam Seed the Movie being resumed (meaning Spring 2009 prod start, Fall 2009, Spring 2010 release date at the earliest)

Maybe check the GS VA's blogs and see if they have mentioned it at all.

And please, the whole "its still being made but 'top secret'" excuse is lame at best. Sunrise is not known for being very leakproof. No models have been rumored, not a mention on anyone's blog, nothing since May 6th, 2006 when it was announced.

I want a new GS production as much as anyone, but right now, it aint happening.

Btw, Gundam 00=Gundam Wing+Code Geass. Not saying its bad, but it is what it is.

Exactly. Someone needs to knock some common sense into that D-KLAC.

[Shinn_Kabuto]

hehe, what I also like in Gundam 00 is not only the mechas but the characters as well. Celestial Being is like Lelouch to Code Geass. And after Gundam 00 Season 1, here comes Code Geass Season 2.

Pride: Maybe u can use ur Hissatsu Attack Climax Version on D-KLAC to surely knock some sense on him. Then I'll use my Wild Shot finisher on him too.

[Sir Dearka]

Somehow, I don't see any of the OO characters developed to such extent as Lelouch was. But hell, this is a Gundam SEED thread so let's talk about SEED.

Nobody wants the SEED production now. One just wishes it'd come up in a couple of years at worst Even if Destiny was not focused on Kira to such extent as the first series (obviously), there was still too much of him IMO. If they wanted to limit him to the role of a pacifist own-all android they could've done it pretty much without wasting that much screen time. I still think that if the whole show focused more on Shinn, this'd be a much better set for the eventual third series, as people would not get tired of Yamato. I liked Kira from SEED very much. But still, to me, Kira from Destiny was just a dummy. And this pretty much leads to me discarding him as a good material for the main protagonist of the next CE show if there is one.

[SonicX_Zero]

Originally Posted by Shinn_Kabuto

hehe, what I also like in Gundam 00 is not only the mechas but the characters as well. Celestial Being is like Lelouch to Code Geass.

What?.. Gundam 00 and Code Geass in the same sentence does not compute. Code Geass and Deathnote, I can understand... but G00?

[Wesley84]

Not too sure what to make of Shinn.

He didn't seem professional enough to fit in ZAFT if you ask me. I mean, in Seed you had unprofessionals in the military (Kira & Friends) due to circumstances. Mwu Flaga was a professional, as were Natatille and Murre, even if their views differed. Rau's group with Yzak, Dearka, Nicole, and Athrun were professional, if full of themsleves with different temperments and personalities.

Any other time it focused on ZAFT or the EA it was generally very professional.

Shinn was a very good pilot, but he didn't seem to have much else going for him. He was unreasonable, he was mouthy, he was sloppy about being in uniform, and he didn't seem to be particularly smart about certain things. I would say he wasn't suitable for combat.

And technically he wasn't a combat pilot. He was a test pilot chosen to work on the Impulse Gundam. Due to circumstances, he, Impulse, and Minerva were launched too early and sent into combat.

Maybe they should have tried to emphasis that fact a bit more?

[Sir Dearka]

Maybe. Basically, I think Shinn was chosen due to his "SEED" factor about which Dullindal knew. Pretty much everything, from his position in ZAFT, through his release from prison despite the obvious treason (sending back Stellar) to being assigned as FAITH member he owed to the Chairman, really. Asuka was a talented and superb pilot, but ultimately failed as a soldier on many disciplinary grounds. Still, it was his anger and drive for vengeance that made him go on with fighting so I think the producers wanted to focus on that. There were just too many ways to explore this character, but they were wasted for the old cast which brought nothing new in return. Just the same old crap about eternal peace and not siding with any hate-fueled side. etc etc.

[Wesley84]

Rau was a better and more easily understood manipulator than Dullindal was. Certainly one could appreciate his more hands on and practical approach to villiany. Gil almost seemed like he wanted to be beaten at the end.

How else could they have explored his character? Maybe have him go AWOL?

[winter45]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Shinn was a very good pilot, but he didn't seem to have much else going for him. He was unreasonable, he was mouthy, he was sloppy about being in uniform, and he didn't seem to be particularly smart about certain things. I would say he wasn't suitable for combat.?

Trust me you do get these type of people in the military.... Ive seen them far too many times. But tbh these type of soldiers are some of the best ive seen in combat

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by winter45

Trust me you do get these type of people in the military.... Ive seen them far too many times. But tbh these type of soldiers are some of the best ive seen in combat

Were they fighter pilots?

[winter45]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Were they fighter pilots?

WOW!!!! Now your nit picking!!!!! Does it really matter??? I did make it clear in regards to soldiers as well as Combatants... (meaning serviceman in combat roles that does include fighter pilots) Sure they piss off the brass but hey they get the job done.