[Anime] Umineko - Q & A

[maximilianjenus]

If it is anythign like higurashi, finding the culprit means that there will be kakera in which teh culprit can be stopped before the killings happen and in those kakera there will be happier endings than in the current ones.

[Pika_power]

Victory conditions are different to Higurashi. Not everyone needs to escape.

Did anyone else notice the easter egg in George's casual clothes? He's got the locket-thing that Tomitake had, and his shirt is similar and says "Tomitakeflash".

[LyricalAura]

Sayo/Miyo, George/Tomitake. Makes sense to me.

[Thunder Book]

For those still interested about my essay thing I was talking about earlier... I'm going to turn it into more of a list of comparisons. I just don't have the energy to make a good and professional looking essay as of now.

[TTR]

Originally Posted by Pika_power

Victory conditions are different to Higurashi. Not everyone needs to escape.

Did anyone else notice the easter egg in George's casual clothes? He's got the locket-thing that Tomitake had, and his shirt is similar and says "Tomitakeflash".

How did I not notice this?! It does say Tomitake FLASH. That's so hilarious hahaha

[Pika_power]

Is there a mistranslation of the first red?

when I speak the truth, I will use red.

If we use Hempel's Raven on this, we get the contrapositive.

Truth=red
Not truth=not red

Therefore everything Beato says in white is false.

[Digdri]

Originally Posted by Pika_power

Is there a mistranslation of the first red?

when I speak the truth, I will use red.

If we use Hempel's Raven on this, we get the contrapositive.

Truth=red
Not truth=not red

Therefore everything Beato says in white is false.

Actually that's not the right way to build a contrapositive.

The right application to your statement should be something like: "I won't use the red, when I don't speak the truth"
Thats different because there are no equations in this statements in the logical / mathematical sense but implications in which we cannot change the sides of the statements without changing the meaning.
(In a short notation this would be like "A => B" equal to "not B => not A" but doesn't neither equal "not A => not B" nor "A = B" / "not A = not B")

But I guess the bigger problem has to do with the way language can get very vague in wording / meaning when dealing with conditional sentences which doesn't translate well into exact formulas if you are not careful and results in messed up application of rules on this formulas. Which doesn't necessarily makes this a mistranslation but still a misleading statement taken out of context. Language is just a much to ambiguous construct.

Context and common sense (and the follow up reds) still gives you a clear idea what was meant with this new rule but taking the this text way too literal would result in "Whenever I tell the truth, I'm bond to indicate it in red" (as in walls of red text for huge parts of the novels needed to fulfill this rule).
But that obviously was not the intention but more close to "When I tell the truth, I may use the red" (as she just adds a new rule to get another optional "power" for the witch side) or simply the "If text is red, it is always true" (as she stated herself: Everything I speak in red is the truth)

Obviously for the later statements (and their transformations) there are no contradictions to the story and the real contrapositive is even kind of used in EP4 in an even stronger version.

When this story talks about Hempel's Raven it barely scratches the surface of all that is the mathematical side of logic and its many rules (propositional logic and everything extenting this system) but IMO its not meant to really teach you that "mathy" part but show what "philosophical" implications are possible through this and keeps it a bit vague at times. (And those half red/white statements don't help either ^^)

[rogerpepitone]

Originally Posted by Pika_power

Victory conditions are different to Higurashi. Not everyone needs to escape.

Did anyone else notice the easter egg in George's casual clothes? He's got the locket-thing that Tomitake had, and his shirt is similar and says "Tomitakeflash".

The locket-thing is a "dog tag". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_tag_%28identifier%29

[Witch of Uncertainty]

Hmmm, so playing through episode 4 again, I am reminded that

Spoiler for Episode 4:

Ange sees something when visiting the captain (Requesting that he will transport her to rokkenjima..), and freezes up, talking about how this is fate, etc. She definetely saw something and connected Beatrice and Maria, I think..
Was it ever explained (I haven't started on Ep6 yet) what she saw?

[zRyuu]

This is what the anime shows us. The VN never tell us this directly, but it does make sense and you can probably get to this with the hints.

Originally Posted by ShikiGamiLD

I already knew what was the thing Ange found inside Capitan Kawabata's house, but now I just confirmed it by looking again at the anime:

Spoiler for Solution:

[Pika_power]

I must object to that being used as proof. You see, Maria added the scarf in later. The toy she was given did not have the red scarf. Therefore there should not be red in the bag. (of course, the other colours also apply, and Sakutarou being there fits)

Ah well. Perhaps Rosa decided to add in the scarf. Or perhaps it's just the anime screwing up again.

[DanielMors]

I think what is marked as the scarf is the orange "hair" of another Sakutarou that's in the bag. In fact, I see three Sakutarous, the third is on top of the other two, looking upwards.

[Judoh]

Is Kyrie's name pronounced as Key-ree-ay? or Key-ray?

[Auria]

Originally Posted by Judoh

Is Kyrie's name pronounced as Key-ree-ay? or Key-ray?

First option, though I'd make the "ay" a "ye"

[TsundereCake]

I know a lot of people who say Kyrie as "K-eye-ree" (like Kairi from Kingdom Hearts )
I thought maybe the correct pronunciation was just the Japanese pronunciation or something... But Mr. Pronunciation guy who sounds like Mike Toole says it's "Key-ree-ye"

[darkxrose]

After watching all of the anime and 1.5 episodes of the VN, I am still confused

These are just random questions I had...

Spoiler for questions:

Do the 13 sacrifices that die go to the golden land? I think so because Maria says everyone will end up in the golden land but in episode 2 of the VN, they talk about how only the survivors are accepted in..

Does beato hold the key to the golden land? In the epitaph it says that the holder kills all of those people but if she has it already then isnt it pointless to try to find the key to the golden land?

Did eva beatrice die when kasumi confronted ange? Because she revived as the adult eva and got killed.

When did ange become beatrice? Why did she have maria's book?

During the end of the anime when bernkastel and lambdadelta were on the bed, they said that beato will lose and a miracle wouldn't happen.. what miracle are they talking about?

Does battler persist in defying beatrice so that the murders never actually occur or is he just incredibly dense?

[Judoh]

Spoiler for answers:

Originally Posted by darkxrose

Do the 13 sacrifices that die go to the golden land? I think so because Maria says everyone will end up in the golden land but in episode 2 of the VN, they talk about how only the survivors are accepted in..

The golden land Maria talks about is similar to an after life and the theory goes that people will live on in that place.

Kinzo's definition of the Golden land is different and involves where you have to go to find the gold.

I guess it's possible though that one of the 5 survivors at the end escapes.

Originally Posted by darkxrose

Does beato hold the key to the golden land? In the epitaph it says that the holder kills all of those people but if she has it already then isnt it pointless to try to find the key to the golden land?

It doesn't really say that. In episode 3 it's suggested that the key to the golden land is not a physical key it's an anagram where you play with letters . And episode 5 confirms you need to do that to solve it.

But on the other end there could be person that's a key that selects the victims in the first twilight.

Originally Posted by darkxrose

Did eva beatrice die when kasumi confronted ange? Because she revived as the adult eva and got killed.

Fantasy scene. Or otherwise think of it as killing the bad memories of the Dark witch inside Eva.

Originally Posted by darkxrose

When did ange become beatrice? Why did she have maria's book?

Eva passed the title on when she died in the hospital.

Ange somehow has retrieved various journals and notebooks from her relatives that were left behind. In episode 6 a notebook that Kyrie left behind detailing her 18 years of hell is mentioned.

Originally Posted by darkxrose

During the end of the anime when bernkastel and lambdadelta were on the bed, they said that beato will lose and a miracle wouldn't happen.. what miracle are they talking about?

They're talking about Beato's chance of winning. With their respective titles they're confirming she will not win her game with certainty and that no miracle will happen resulting in her winning the game.

[ErenselTheJester]

I just got my english patch of umineko today, but I can't run it on onscripter-en. Do I need to make any preparations before I can run it?

[Pika_power]

Originally Posted by ErenselTheJester

I just got my english patch of umineko today, but I can't run it on onscripter-en. Do I need to make any preparations before I can run it?

Asking in the Translation thread would probably be a better bet.

[gummybear]

I just had a thought, what if instead of solving the murders, Battler solve where the hidden gold are at instead? Doesn't that also end up winning the game anyway?