Macross Frontier (Macross 25) general discussion [No Spoilers]

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Thanks for your wise words Mr Obvious.

Ya but but common knowledge MF is selling well, thats well and all might even help fix the world wide issues the M brand has.

I just hope the next series/ova set is better......

[Westlo]

Some Blueray sales are now in so for interests sake we can compare the 3 big selling titles of 2008 properly now.

Macross Frontier

Vol 1 = 61,884 (34,742 BR, 27,142 DVD)
Vol 2 = 48,169 (27,137 BR, 21,032 DVD)
Vol 3 = 46,087 (25,479 BR, 20,608 DVD)
Vol 4 = 42,567 (22,731 BR, 19,836 DVD)

Code Geass R2

Vol 1 = 59,041 (19,134 BR, 39,907 DVD)
Vol 2 = 46,717 (16,014 BR, 30,703 DVD)
Vol 3 = 43,330 (14,986 BR, 28,344 DVD)
Vol 4 = 39,888 (13,520 BR, 26,368 DVD)

Mobile Suit Gundam 00 (Blueray release came out after DVD release)

Vol 1 = 50,631 (8,216 BR, 42,415 DVD)
Vol 2 = 41,380 (6,021 BR, 35,359 DVD)
Vol 3 = 38,035 (5,179 BR, 32,856 DVD)
Vol 4 = 35,456 (4,734 BR, 30,722 DVD)

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Some Blueray sales are now in so for interests sake we can compare the 3 big selling titles of 2008 properly now.

Macross Frontier

Vol 1 = 61,884 (34,742 BR, 27,142 DVD)
Vol 2 = 48,169 (27,137 BR, 21,032 DVD)
Vol 3 = 46,087 (25,479 BR, 20,608 DVD)
Vol 4 = 42,567 (22,731 BR, 19,836 DVD)

Code Geass R2

Vol 1 = 59,041 (19,134 BR, 39,907 DVD)
Vol 2 = 46,717 (16,014 BR, 30,703 DVD)
Vol 3 = 43,330 (14,986 BR, 28,344 DVD)
Vol 4 = 39,888 (13,520 BR, 26,368 DVD)

Mobile Suit Gundam 00 (Blueray release came out after DVD release)

Vol 1 = 50,631 (8,216 BR, 42,415 DVD)
Vol 2 = 41,380 (6,021 BR, 35,359 DVD)
Vol 3 = 38,035 (5,179 BR, 32,856 DVD)
Vol 4 = 35,456 (4,734 BR, 30,722 DVD)

Meaning Macross Frontier is the best selling title of last year. Nice!

[BetoJR]

No, that's VERY NICE.
Good to know a series you enjoy is highly regarded by the original fanbase, as well.

[DeX-kun]

Amazing stats, considering I've seen some polls and that Code Geass is supposedly the "best anime" ever. I really don't know how it could be considering I still think that Macross Frontier was better than both seasons of Code Geass in my opinion.

[zalem]

While CG is unfortunately not the best ever (it could have been imho had they not messed up R2), I can't say MF is better then it. Certainly not better then season 1 and for all that R2 is messed up in MANY regards its ending is better than MF's ending. What can I say, the lack of resolution to the LT which was such a huge focus of the series and the botching of the galaxy plot just made the ending falter. Sheryl is the only character that can give CG characters any real competition for me. She is the real reason for watching MF. Well, her and the cool mecha fights too. But let us not get into a CG v. MF battle here.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by zalem

While CG is unfortunately not the best ever (it could have been imho had they not messed up R2), I can't say MF is better then it. Certainly not better then season 1 and for all that R2 is messed up in MANY regards its ending is better than MF's ending. What can I say, the lack of resolution to the LT which was such a huge focus of the series and the botching of the galaxy plot just made the ending falter. Sheryl is the only character that can give CG characters any real competition for me. She is the real reason for watching MF. Well, her and the cool mecha fights too. But let us not get into a CG v. MF battle here.

I don't know, people shipping for CG probably felt the same way as some of us to MF's ending.

Why? Because the triangle to some, remains unresolved in CG, and now, it can't be resolved because Lulu died!

- Tak (Though to me it had always been CxL, which is as obvious as SxA)

[zalem]

Spoiler for Macross v. CG romance comparison:

Yeah, but the huge difference is that the MF plot revolved around romance. So to put all that time into the LT and not resolve it is a huge flaw. All that time wasted....time that could have gone to the galaxy plot! Romance was barely even in CG and it was even mostly expected that Lelouch would end up with no one. CG is NOT a romance show. The people shipping there were doomed from the start if that was their main reason for watching the show.

[magnuskn]

It´s all in the eye of the beholder. If you thought that Ledouche was the bestest thing ever, I guess Code Geass was better. I could barely tolerate him through 90% of both seasons, because I am not into douchebags without scrouples. So that brings the whole show down a big notch for me.

During the end of season 2, things in general got so ridiculous ( starting with the Rocket Emperor ) that I stopped caring as to what happened to the characters, which never happened to me with Frontier.

Also, Macross ( in the form of Robotech ) having initiated me into anime was of course a huge emotional factor, so I guess that may be a big factor as to why I like MF more than Geass. Then again, I like a good number of older animes also more than Geass ( Vision of Escaflowne, Outlaw Star, to cite some examples ), so maybe it is simply a question of style.

As for characters, none of Geass characters came even nearby to Sheryl. Alto was very much on the level of every other main character in Geass, besides Ledouche and Suzaku, but I guess his more subtle characterization is still a point of contention.

I will grant one thing, however, the finale of Geass always makes me bawl my eyes out when Ledouche dies, although not for him, but for Nunallys pain. It *is* much more emotional than the Macross finale.

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

Amazing stats, considering I've seen some polls and that Code Geass is supposedly the "best anime" ever. I really don't know how it could be considering I still think that Macross Frontier was better than both seasons of Code Geass in my opinion.

I like Gundam 00 more better more balanced characters,plots and storys...

[zalem]

I don't think it's style, I like plenty of older anime as well and like geass. But Macross was not my introduction to anime so I suppose there is less emotional attachment with it. As for characters, I love Sheryl but she doesn't come close to Lelouch for me. And well, you all know my opinion on Ranka and Alto. So yeah, it really is all in the eye of the beholder. But CG's finale does definitely have more emotional impact. MF's was rather....I don't know lackluster?

Zippy, I like 00 a lot too. I hope they don't mess up the ending though.

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by zalem

I don't think it's style, I like plenty of older anime as well and like geass. But Macross was not my introduction to anime so I suppose there is less emotional attachment with it. As for characters, I love Sheryl but she doesn't come close to Lelouch for me. And well, you all know my opinion on Ranka and Alto. So yeah, it really is all in the eye of the beholder. But CG's finale does definitely have more emotional impact. MF's was rather....I don't know lackluster?

Zippy, I like 00 a lot too. I hope they don't mess up the ending though.

Rant mode
MF is immature with sloppy writing at least compared to the others and even more so with other better Sci fi or romance based shows.

CG is ok it has alot of good characters and styles but they are somewhat generic or at the elast over reaching. I think pacing and story issues take it down a couple notches it beats Vamprie knight that might have alot of good parts but when it all comes together its just luke warm if that.

Gundam 00 seems to hit all its points with a minimum of story issues and has the most balance in character and story, the romance is much more potent and impactful because they do not fall into fan service or SOL traps.

If I had to rank them G00 first, CG 2nd and MF last this is based on pure story,pacing and characters.

[SethEng]

Originally Posted by ZippyDSM

Gundam 00 seems to hit all its points with a minimum of story issues and has the most balance in character and story, the romance is much more potent and impactful because they do not fall into fan service or SOL traps.

You're kidding, right? Romance, in 00, superior to that in Frontier? I'd actually like to hear your justification for that, as there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of romance in 00 to begin with and what there is doesn't actually seem particularly deep or meaningful. Which romance in 00 is more potent and "impactful" than Alto and Sheryl? I'm quite curious as to what the answer to that is.

I'm not much of a shipper at all, but I don't really associate Gundam and romance. Maybe 08th MS Team.

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by SethEng

You're kidding, right? Romance, in 00, superior to that in Frontier? I'd actually like to hear your justification for that, as there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of romance in 00 to begin with and what there is doesn't actually seem particularly deep or meaningful. Which romance in 00 is more potent and "impactful" than Alto and Sheryl? I'm quite curious as to what the answer to that is.

I'm not much of a shipper at all, but I don't really associate Gundam and romance. Maybe 08th MS Team.

Short answer yes as most of MF relationship story's are strained and childish.

The Long answer is that MF is more focused on romance and there are better examples of it within it, however these are not the main romances thus taking away from it overall.

Gundam00 has specific, limited instances of romance that are done in a way that they come out with more potency thus have a greater impact on you.

In the end MF has more romance but most of the story quality thierin is well....dumb and childish......

[zalem]

I have to agree with SethEng on that one. When I think of "romance" 00 is the last series that comes to mind. It's Gundam. Gundam isn't about romance. There might be a bit of romance here and there but it's not the focus of the series like it is in Macross. I do appreciate Gundam 00 for it's lack of fan-service though. The only romance I can think of that is a bit interesting is Louise and Saji and I don't even like either of them. Alle/Soma hardly gets screen time since they hooked up. Kati/Patrick is kind of a joke and also gets no screen time. And those are pretty much the only legit couples in 00.

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by zalem

I have to agree with SethEng on that one. When I think of "romance" 00 is the last series that comes to mind. It's Gundam. Gundam isn't about romance. There might be a bit of romance here and there but it's not the focus of the series like it is in Macross. I do appreciate Gundam 00 for it's lack of fan-service though. The only romance I can think of that is a bit interesting is Louise and Saji and I don't even like either of them. Alle/Soma hardly gets screen time since they hooked up. Kati/Patrick is kind of a joke and also gets no screen time. And those are pretty much the only legit couples in 00.

Anything that involves the heart or close friendships on the cusp of romance I count as romance, the 2 that died in season 1 end, Maria and Setsune have a subtle relationship that's effecting him,Seumier nor lees(god I can not find her name) old love and current ex is every interesting then you have Marie and Aallelujah, as I said it has much less but its more specific,refined and far more interesting than the childish 3 way mess that's made out of MF 's lead characters. The other relationships in it are done far better than both G00 and the lead characters but with the mess that's MF G00 is simply more poinaiet.

[SethEng]

Originally Posted by ZippyDSM

Short answer yes as most of MF relationship story's are strained and childish.

The Long answer is that MF is more focused on romance and there are better examples of it within it, however these are not the main romances thus taking away from it overall.

So what exactly about Sheryl and Alto was strained and childish? I mean certainly there was some awkwardness to it, but no more than I'd expect from two teenagers . Even Ranka's self-centered puppy love for Alto seemed to be fairly realistic and what I'd expect from, say, a 12 or 13 year old.

Originally Posted by ZippyDSM

Gundam00 has specific, limited instances of romance that are done in a way that they come out with more potency thus have a greater impact on you.

Which specific instances? There is the brief bit with Patrick asking Katie out. Odd as most militaries frown on fraternization, but it was something that seemed in character for him. Of course since then we really haven't seen much of anything romantic at all between the characters.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what would really count as romantic, short of Feldt and Lockon mk 1, but that didn't have much of an impact on me at all. Louise and Saji never really did anything for me, but that might be because I keep wishing for Saji to die in a fire. The same with Marie and Alle, which was sprung on us with next to no build up and has about as much impact as most author fiat.

I just don't see much in 00 that compares to a slow build up over time that we see in the original Macross or Macross Frontier, or even what we see in DYRL.

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by SethEng

So what exactly about Sheryl and Alto was strained and childish? I mean certainly there was some awkwardness to it, but no more than I'd expect from two teenagers . Even Ranka's self-centered puppy love for Alto seemed to be fairly realistic and what I'd expect from, say, a 12 or 13 year old.




Which specific instances? There is the brief bit with Patrick asking Katie out. Odd as most militaries frown on fraternization, but it was something that seemed in character for him. Of course since then we really haven't seen much of anything romantic at all between the characters.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what would really count as romantic, short of Feldt and Lockon mk 1, but that didn't have much of an impact on me at all. Louise and Saji never really did anything for me, but that might be because I keep wishing for Saji to die in a fire. The same with Marie and Alle, which was sprung on us with next to no build up and has about as much impact as most author fiat.

I just don't see much in 00 that compares to a slow build up over time that we see in the original Macross or Macross Frontier, or even what we see in DYRL.

Most of the dialog for one...... most of the situations for 2...... sorry MF is a mess.

Most if not all of the specific instances of close almost romantic or more relationships in both seasons of G00.

As I said they are limited instances of to the point relationship story's, not the childish witless crap that makes the brunt of MF main relationship story.


Again the the burnt of the main relationship story in MF sucks so much so it takes way from not only the better parts of it but from the better secondary character relationship story's as well dragging the whole thing down.....

[zalem]

I do agree with you in a way. Not with G00 having better romance. I still see virtually no romance in that series. Interesting relationships? Perhaps. But romantic ones? No.

But I do agree on the point that perhaps too much time was spent on the main LT and that the rest of the plot did suffer for it. The vajra were underdeveloped as enemies. Galaxy was underdeveloped. Not to mention I would have like more Klan/Michel screentime....

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by zalem

I do agree with you in a way. Not with G00 having better romance. I still see virtually no romance in that series. Interesting relationships? Perhaps. But romantic ones? No.

But I do agree on the point that perhaps too much time was spent on the main LT and that the rest of the plot did suffer for it. The vajra were underdeveloped as enemies. Galaxy was underdeveloped. Not to mention I would have like more Klan/Michel screentime....

Thats what I am getting at, I do see a handful of relationships in G00 that are romantic or romantic like or getting there, the relationships are more interesting than the forced and silly MF 3 way. Now the other relationships in MF are much more detailed and well done.

I just see G00 doing most things better over all that or it just gratis on my nerves less :P