Immortality - How could this not be a curse?

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

I think the most retrograde (Islamic countries, 4th world countries and the bible belt) of people will attack science and whoever represents them because they are "the messangers of satan" -_-

Umm…I don’t think so. If in the future, modern science can offer “immortality” as a means of medication, I don’t think my religion (Islam) will label it as “satanic” doing and go all 'pitchforks and torches' about it. Just like plastic surgery (the ones which goal has nothing to do with health), my religion will only consider it as “not advisable/not recommended”. It’s unlike cloning which essentially creating an artificial (and mostly flawed and deformed) life. Islam forbids it coz one of the reasons is that, due to our lack of technology, we basically deliberately created them (clones) only to live and suffer coz (unlike God) we can’t offer anything to them (clones) beyond this life. Isn’t that sad ? It’s different if we only create living organs to be transplanted for those in needs .

Also, I don’t think man-made “immortality” is free of suffering and death. If those “immortals” commit some serious crimes, they can still be punished and worst, got themselves some death sentences (they can still be killed like in Highlander). For Muslims, this life is just a bus-stop anyway. Who wants to stay in a bus-stop forever if we can ride a bus to a much better place? It’s their choice if they want to live forever coz this universe (let alone earth) won’t be here forever, mind you.

[Goshin]

Personally i don't think science will ever have a "medicine" that gives immortality, I think dying is imbedded in our DNA and i don't think we will ever be able to rewrite our DNA while alive. I think it will be more like genetic engineering where scientist completely unravel the secrets of DNA produce of future generation of immortals.

whereas in my previous post I didn't view immortality as bad for one or two individuals. if society as a whole were to become immortal there would be problems like overpopulation. then again assuming we become advanced enough to do that, maybe overpopulation shouldn't be a huge problem... like pocket dimensions or something... idk

[Kyero Fox]

I would love immortality, So i outlive my friends, I get to go on for them and make new friends.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I don’t think my religion (Islam) will label it as “satanic” doing and go all 'pitchforks and torches' about it.

Have you asked your local imam about this? Otherwise this is only your personal opinion on this specific subject.

[JMvS]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

Have you asked your local imam about this? Otherwise this is only your personal opinion on this specific subject.

And even then, your local imam's advice will only be his interpretation.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Zakoo

I can only see this as a curse honestly, I think between Kaguya and Mokou of touhou, I have enough sample to not consider immortality as a gift, that's hell.

To be honest, if I am immortal like those two girls, I would enjoy the hell of it. I would try honing as much skills as possible like drawing, learning as much languages as possible and I would live as much "lives" in as much different countries as possible. Sure, it sucks to not have a place to call home anymore but myself prefer to look at the bright side of life like in that song by the Monty Pythons.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Frankly, I don't plan to retire at all... but increased longevity just accelerates the soon-to-be-in-our-face problem of how do you employ all these people when the number of jobs being offered is permanently shrinking.

If everyone's needs were taken care of and people could what they *want* to do, what percentage would be couch potatoes and what percentage would be out there volunteering? (the Star Trek scenario).

Think of the couch potatoes as self-propagating ingredients for soylent to feed the volunteering masses.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

Have you asked your local imam about this? Otherwise this is only your personal opinion on this specific subject.

Sure, when I have the time, I'm gonna ask him about it .

Still, I remember that In Quran, there's something like: it's not good to change the body that God has given to you unless the changes are done to improve your health. Yet, we aren't ordered to personally hate or hunt down those trans-genders, permanently-tattooed dudes, people who wear wigs, etc (cosmetics is okay though, as long as there's no pig-based ingredient in it). Example: For transgender-ing, if you're a healthy Muslim boy but want to be a girl through some surgery, you better not to do that coz that specific desire (followed by action) means you're being ungrateful for not accepting what you are (according to Islam). Still, there are cases where someone was physically born with neutral/difficult-to-identify sex (there's at least one case here in my country) and to help him/her, some sexual/genital surgery is needed and that person is free to choose between being a male or a female. Islam is completely fine with that. Nevertheless, a good Muslim should never judge people (as long as they don't insult/hurt anybody else) coz that's God's domain. So, basically, as long as it's for clinical reason to improve someones health and not for greed or self-satisfaction only, changing your body is fine.

I'm sorry if other members are feeling uncomfortable with this post. I never meant to bring this religious topic into this thread. I brought it up only in response to some posts.

[Lenaisian]

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

Never getting bored has nothing to do with it as much as the emotional scarring you will suffer from outliving your friends, family and loved ones. You will eventually become cold and withdrawn because you don't want to feel that pain anymore.

... like Sieghart from Grand Chase.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

In a relatively endless universe...how do you run out of things to do? Unless you are a Q type immortal...you shouldn't be able to do everything.

The main limitation is in the present, as we have no means of escaping this world for others. Live long enough and you can visit other worlds. At which point there is basically only the issue of how long it will take to get to that next star. That could be boring to the tune of decades or centuries...depending on the method of travel.

But even without space travel. Assuming life goes on, you will have new people to meet. New inventions to see. New things to try. Maybe even use your knowledge and makes some of their new inventions work better from experiance with older technology that was similar but not refined enough to work properly.

Your personal limitation is if you get stuck in your ways from your own time and don't adapt as the world ages around you. And I don't mean just clothing, style, but manners, thoughs about different peoples, genders, races, things you do around the house every day. Mannerisms change over time, and if your do not, you might start to be left out just due to being the "old fart" in style. And later people would think you style is odd, though it might be a point of popularity...depending on the company you keep.

It would be like if a Briton from the 800s was still living to day. Would have have adapted well over the 1200 years? I don't know. Maybe.

That's a key point ... I simply no longer relate to a fair number of my age peers because they have chosen not to evolve with the world. I can't delete my past nor would I want to... as a result I occasionally use words no one recognizes any more, my various outfits flip around various decades, I have kept my hairstyle... mostly because it goes in/out/in of style so who cares, next year it will be "in" again. But I have a variety of acquaintances and friends ranging from late teens to a couple of decades older... because each one has decided that we're on the same page even if the pages keep updating.

[Zakoo]

Originally Posted by Sheba

To be honest, if I am immortal like those two girls, I would enjoy the hell of it. I would try honing as much skills as possible like drawing, learning as much languages as possible and I would live as much "lives" in as much different countries as possible. Sure, it sucks to not have a place to call home anymore but myself prefer to look at the bright side of life like in that song by the Monty Pythons.

really? But the fact of being alone forever, seeing your loved one dying one after the other seems aweful for me. Most doujin between mokou and Keine show this, earlier or later this cute friendship will "end".

Damn, here, you did it, you made me remember one, I AM CRYING §§§

This is because our life are short that I find those beautiful, we constantly try to give a meaning to it, to find happiness, immortality for me is synonym of constancy, boredom, eternity.
I think eternity is a the big world of this, because we can't even imagine what is "eternity" we can't fully understand immortality, it's sure you can fill your life, but in front of "eternity" is there enough things to fill it?

As such, if somebody would be immortal, he would have the right to be called "God", he has enough time to become omniscient and omnipotent. This isn't something for human's boundary.

But heh, this is meta physic, I'm not good at this, yet this is an interesting topic, to see all those different point of view on immortality is quite pleasant to read.

[word sux]

I think immortality will be possible in the future just not in you original body. If we are talking about just preserving the brain or even maybe store ourselves in some sort of hard drive... I don't think you can make a human body eternal though..

[Vexx]

If actual immortality bothers anyone (and its unlikely there can be such a thing), what about "relative immortality" or at least an extended lifespan measured in 4 digits instead of 2 or 3? At what point does each of us consider it "too long"?

Assume you're not the only one but that this is a commonly available technology.

[Zakoo]

Yeah deviant as I am I often think " Hey, Zak, if one day you meet a 4 digit lady/youkai with a young appearence, she is still good right?"

So yeah, because it has a limit I don't consider it as a problem, earlier or later, it will end, everything need to end eventually.

And your question is great, as usual, where's the limit, if 4 digit is fine, what about 5 digit, then 6 digit? I myself do not know, I would probably put it at 5 but that's up to me.

Still in front of infinity, a billon or a trillon is nothing.

[TurkeyPotPie]

Social Security is already fucked with boomers, now imagine people live hundreds of years. How are you going to support them all. "Make room! Make room!"

I think anti-smoking campaigns were counterproductive. Better to have people die off in their fifties before they could retire, plus smoking kept people thinner so no "obesity epidemic". Although maybe obesity is another way to eliminate mass portions of the population.

Seriously though, I would not want to live forever on this earth. Although when I am pushing sixty or seventy I'm sure my opinion might change.

[Vexx]

Social Security is only a tool to help people in their last years.... obviously, the statistical tables would have to be updated. I'm right in the window (54) where it would make sense to move the age from 65 to 68 or even 70. It should be based on the statistics and taken out of the political realm.

[TurkeyPotPie]

Well, when you're talking about money, it's always going to be political. There's lots of old folks (and soon to be many more), and they vote. People tend to vote their rational self interest. At least be glad you'll probably see something out of SS. Younger people are fuuucked.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Zakoo

And your question is great, as usual, where's the limit, if 4 digit is fine, what about 5 digit, then 6 digit? I myself do not know, I would probably put it at 5 but that's up to me.

I don't know you people, but I want to SEE mars get terraformed (and I would be organizing the petitions to change the planet name to Aqua, I want not only to visit other planets in our solar system, I want to visit planets outside or solar system. In 1.4 millions years I want to see how the star Gliese 710 gets at a mere 1 light year from our sun (ATM proxima centauri is at 4 light years from our sun). I want to see (from a safe place) how our galaxy collides with andromeda. Maybe I am a bit foolish, who cares

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Zakoo

As such, if somebody would be immortal, he would have the right to be called "God", he has enough time to become omniscient and omnipotent.

Even if a man is immortal, there’s no way that he/she can be called a "God". That’s because humans (immortal or not) lack one thing which is very essential for being a God: The ability to “create”. Humans can only “make” things but they can’t “create” something from nothing at all. That is the line between a human and a God IMO. And that’s just one from many more.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

You know, the loneliness caused by having everyone dying around you isn't caused by immortality; it is caused by mortality. Being mortal doesn't prevent it at all; it just made it possible that someone else who loves you gets to watch you die instead.

I don't see why the death of your loved ones is a case against immortality; if anything it just means you need more immortals, not less.