2008-08-30, 09:22 | Link #1041 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2008-08-30, 11:26 | Link #1042 | |
Kazumi sure is cute...
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Jacksonville Florida
Age: 40
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I went back and read. At first you are talking about how KnJ would probably not get green lighted in europe either, because even though you (europe) are more liberal, you are not pedos (in reference to europe). Then the argument is brought up that watching a said subject does not produce a person like on the said subject. ( for example, watching KnJ does not produces pedos). You guys argue about that for a while. Then the point was made that in america there are shows that graphically describe what pedos do. But an animated show about a similar topic (but no violence) is condemned. And then it was discussed that perhaps the lack of violence is what is making the show not get green lighted. I believe the point of the poster was, perhaps if the "pedo" in the story was killed or punished, then the story would be okay for green-lighting. I think that YOU may have touched a little on why you thought KnJ was not acceptable for a western audience (although it was not explicitly stated), but the conversation you guys were in was never about that ("we were talking about..."). You talked about what watashiya MUST do to make it acceptable. My comment was saying that the story is not for western audiences, if it was in the beginning ,it certainly isn't now. So watashiya does not need to do anything to make is acceptable to anyone... its already acceptable... to the target audience, if it wasn't it wouldn't be comic high's flag ship story (at least I think KnJ is). I was the one to introduce the concept of catering to western audiences. Before then, it was not mentioned.
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2008-08-31, 11:45 | Link #1044 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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We actually *were* discussing things Western in that I was pointing out how inconsistent the US was to let things like what we see on live-action CSI and Law&Order just slide by (not to mention advertisers for cosmetics) while a *drawn* story with much more well-developed characters with some depth and complexity to their presentation gets stomped into the ground by zealots and timid hypocrite publishers. Don't make a sweeping assessment of Japan. First, they differentiate between interest in what the west might call "lolita" (13-16ish) and pedophilia (<12). Also, attitudes vary considerably in the public sector. And again, interest in drawn stories or literature versus real life are two totally different animals. Interest in one doesn't predict interest in the other. Comparing Aoki's clumsy errors with Reiji's plotting doesn't really pass GO either. Intent makes a critical difference though Aoki may beat himself up anyway.
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2008-08-31, 13:58 | Link #1045 | ||||
Kazumi sure is cute...
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Jacksonville Florida
Age: 40
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jigen said
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I just pointed out his views on this subject were a product of his culture and that japan has a different culture. So different things are acceptable and unacceptable in japanese culture. I was trying to illustrate that what he sees as unacceptable (needing the pedo to be killed to make it acceptable) from his culture may not have been "unacceptable" in another culture. I guess I failed... Wrong or not, offtopic or not, that was my intention. Vexx said Quote:
Anh_Minh said Quote:
I apologize, I did indeed make a sweeping assessment of japan. Although reiji has plotted, he has done nothing more than aoki. Now if we want to count up the pedo points, reiji's plotting is scary... but what has he done physically to rin that is worse than anything aoki accidentally / clumsily did? Aoki has done about the same, intentional or not. I fully agree that aoki's intent makes him a lot more likable of a guy, but that is not to say that his actions were not the same. Accidentally cut a guys throat because some glass in your hand slipped, and purposely assassinate a man, two different things... accidental killing and murder 1, but the same thing has occurred no matter the intention, someone has died... But hey what am I saying. This is a world of fiction, adhering only to the rules watashiya sees fit. Jigen's random tangent: I wish we could have this much discussion every month about the chapters... Naruto's 17 page chapters get 5 pages of talk on Animesuki and speculation, KnJ is lucky to get 2 a month
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2008-08-31, 15:38 | Link #1046 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Aoki hasn't been forcing his attentions on Rin while she was asleep.
And talking about "what a series lack to be acceptable" and "why it isn't acceptable" are pretty much the same things. Sure, there were some things left unsaid in our conversation, as in all conversations. You have to be able to get the context a bit. |
2008-09-06, 19:05 | Link #1047 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Um, since that cover has caused quite a debate here, I thought it might be a good idea to show that that is not the official cover, it is likely used somewhere else...
Official cover, courtesy of www.amazon.co.jp: http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/i...465392&s=books Not quite as racy... |
2008-09-22, 12:20 | Link #1049 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Age: 35
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2008-09-26, 14:39 | Link #1053 |
Kazumi sure is cute...
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Jacksonville Florida
Age: 40
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Well this was an interesting chapter... not exactly sure what just happened... I really felt like everything was wrapping up... it saddens me. But at the same time, its the perfect way to kick off a new arc, because we all know rin is going against her feelings... and everyone knows those feelings will be shown. Her feelings have to be realized in some way or form. Although she has love for both reiji and aoki, her love for aoki is of the romantic nature.. no way watashiya will stop now when she never got either character to explore their love. Rin (child or not) wants her love to be returned, she wants that so bad, and I just can't see the series ending without at least one scene of aoki and rin being love love and romantic... I just can't believe watashiya would do that to her fans...
Oh it was funny seeing kuro-chan cream in her pants after rin was done with her, lol. And I was really expecting the un-needed loli rin rapes usa-chan scene, lol
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2008-10-07, 02:29 | Link #1056 |
Banned
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Hahaha, I just got permabanned from another forum over the fact that I blogged about KnJ for a little while and got labelled a pedo as a result. In fact people are probably reading this right now since this is the kind of group that needs their daily "lulz". Hey, how you doing folks, is this important to you? Can I help in any significant way to fulfill your lulz quota? If so let me know.
Yes, by far the best thing about this manga series existence is how uptight people pretend to get over it and how you can induce faux outrage just by mentioning it. Again, it is very very important that you do not read or discuss Kodomo No Jikan. It is indeed every bit the measure of a person as a human being. I know because the internet told me so. Just thought I'd add that little treat in. You'd think the controversy over this one had died down, but nope, it's still the Grand Theft Auto of anime/manga series. The focal point for everything that is apparently wrong about anime/manga. Loving it. Now all it needs is it's own Jack Thompson equivalent to start suing everyone. Truth be told, I haven't read a chapter in ages. I think the whole shock factor has kind of worn off. Lolita worked as a character study because it was only about 350 pages and dealt with the subject matter very seriously. Kodomo No Jikan however has pretty much run it's course I think. It probably wouldn't hurt for this to be the last volume. Once it's over, the very important pass time of pretending to get really outraged over lolicon will lose it's main target too, which would be a delightful killjoy for all of those types who like to have something they want to try and hold up over another. Personally I think a higher moral standard is better achieved through a different course of action (As in through one's own actions as opposed to denouncing others for whatever very important subject one can come up with), but then again this is the internet so so be it. Edit: Not crying, adding a point, there's a difference here. Just thought I'd add that in since somebody seemed to have been mistaken. Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2008-10-07 at 20:08. |
2008-10-10, 23:43 | Link #1058 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I think think it's about to end soon
Anyway I think the reason why stuff why western material is allowed to be a message violent is because it's either objective or teaching good morals. As violent as CSI is, in the end the villain is caught. Stuff like The Punisher, Spawn, or Sin city are just ridiculously violent but it the end, the villain gets what coming. Now usually in the news any adult in a romantic relationship with a child is viewed a immoral, a villain. Now here you have a story were the "villain" isn't getting justice so people think that the anime is supporting a adult-child. Now I know rin and Aoki don't have a romantic relation but the story doesn't do much to confirm that early in the story |
2008-10-11, 02:29 | Link #1059 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I'm sure they sit and watch all the Law&Order, CSI, Criminal Minds "lets see how pedo-rific we can get" shows.. where often the criminal does NOT get caught. Here we have a story about a lot of people trying to do the RIGHT thing and helping people cope.... and it gets the witchburning treatment. go 'fig.
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2008-10-11, 05:36 | Link #1060 | |
Banned
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Yes Kodomo No Jikan turns the whole lolicon thing into a gag and plays it for laughs, but at the end of the day is it saying to go out and break the law or take advantage of an innocent? Does it ever claim that such a thing is socially acceptable? No quite the opposite in fact. And considering it sees legal distribution on the regular graphic novel market in Japan (and has had a televised animated series adaptation and will see another one shortly) and isn't some underground doujin, I don't see how anyone can call it socially harmful in any significant way unless they're one of those bandwagon types. The usual reader discretion applies, but it's honestly no more traumatizing a read than Ode To Kirohito which features one character who.....well I'll let people read that particular story for themselves. Or how about we turn on the good old HBO where every show has to have pointless nudity and as much violence and swearing as possible per episode. Perfectly legal and deemed socially acceptable for ages 18+ . The point I'm trying to make is that the definition in the Charter (Canada) and the Constitution (U.S.A) on where freedom of expression in a form of media gets revoked is pretty obvious and I think it's safe to say that KnJ is well before it. And the only thing I know about CSI is that David Caruso only has one talking voice that also happens to sound a lot like Columbo's. |
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comedy, growing up, loli, school life, seinen |
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