(L) Cross game

[Willen]

Originally Posted by musouka

Wikipedia says (regarding women's softball): "During her softball career, Joyce's pitches were sometimes clocked at more than 116 mph (186 km/h). In exhibition games, she struck out Ted Williams at Municipal Stadium in Waterbury, CT in 1961 (also during a brief stint in 1966) and Hank Aaron in 1978."

That's probably pretty unusual, but, yeah, Aoba is definitely not an impossible exaggeration.

Comparing softball pitch and baseball pitches aren't exactly equal due to the different pitch mechanics (underhand versus overhand) and different size and weight balls.

I think it's more a factor of Aoba's great pitching technique than pure physical attributes that is her key to her success. Sure, eventually (and possibly even now) she won't be able to match fastball speeds with the best guys, but I don't think that has happened quite yet. Unless she ends up 6-foot plus tall or something.

[monir]

Originally Posted by musouka

Wikipedia says (regarding women's softball): "During her softball career, Joyce's pitches were sometimes clocked at more than 116 mph (186 km/h). In exhibition games, she struck out Ted Williams at Municipal Stadium in Waterbury, CT in 1961 (also during a brief stint in 1966) and Hank Aaron in 1978."

That's probably pretty unusual, but, yeah, Aoba is definitely not an impossible exaggeration.

I wouldn't mind seeing the source for the above piece of information Wiki put out. Reaching 116 mph in an underhand throw is just..... Yeah, I'm calling out Wiki on this.

If a search made for the fastest recorded underhand pitch, Wiki also answers 95 mph by an 18 year old Texan. The fact is human mechanics, the way our body is structured with the hand and shoulder, works against such claim. In the present form of Women Soft Ball, I haven't heard of anyone who can consistently reach even 80 MPH as her fastest pitch. Either the radar gun was faulty, or the guy with bad eye who was reading it had a thing for Ms. Joyce.

[Agent86]

Originally Posted by monir

I wouldn't mind seeing the source for the above piece of information Wiki put out. Reaching 116 mph in an underhand throw is just..... Yeah, I'm calling out Wiki on this.

I'm not saying I believe the 116 MPH claim, but I'll point out that on official softball fields, the mound is only ~40 feet from the plate (60 foot basepaths). So a softball pitcher in theory could reach a higher speed than a baseball pitcher, since the extra ~20 feet for a baseball is all deceleration.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Agent86

I'm not saying I believe the 116 MPH claim, but I'll point out that on official softball fields, the mound is only ~40 feet from the plate (60 foot basepaths). So a softball pitcher in theory could reach a higher speed than a baseball pitcher, since the extra ~20 feet for a baseball is all deceleration.

also a softball pitch has a much larger range of motion than a baseball pitch. Baseball range of motion before the ball leaves the pitcher's hand is about 90-110 degree, while softball is about 210-250. the softball weight and size makes hitting a softball a much easier task even with the shorter range of travel and speed.

[musouka]

It doesn't say she was pitching with a softball when her pitches were recorded, only that she was a softball player first and foremost.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Agent86

but I'll point out that on official softball fields, the mound is only ~40 feet from the plate (60 foot basepaths). So a softball pitcher in theory could reach a higher speed than a baseball pitcher, since the extra ~20 feet for a baseball is all deceleration.

Negative. You've got your physics all wrong. You can also look up on how a radar gun measures speed.

Originally Posted by musouka

It doesn't say she was pitching with a softball when her pitches were recorded, only that she was a softball player first and foremost.

Fair enough. Here is an accumulated stats that showcase all those fastest pitches with a hardball that have been recorded over the years with modern equipment. Needless to say, the accuracy of those equipments have become better as the technology made its advancement. As seen, it still doesn't change anything whether the ball thrown was a hardball or a softball. Physical limitation is at work here.

After thinking a little bit, it is possible that different method than a radar gun was used to calculate the speed of a pitch. (I believe the first radar gun saw its use in the 50's.) If one has a stop watch to calculate "t" (time) for an object that covered a certain distance, than the simplest of mathematical formula can be used to calculate the speed of a pitch. Needless to say the margin of error will be high contributed by human error, as high as |40 to 60| %. Modern equipment such as radar gun eliminates the margin of error in the decimal points.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by monir

(I believe the first radar gun saw its use in the 50's.)

She started her career in 1956. (And she said her pitches were probably timed with a speed gun in the 70's)

Now, can we please stop trying to find "explanations" for a very extraordinary woman, and just accept that she was a remarkable pitcher?

EDIT: For clarification, most of her pitches weren't timed, and she probably didn't get speeds of ~120 mph, but even taking away thirty miles, you still have someone that could strike out baseball greats. And the point is that what Aoba is doing isn't impossible, or that she's even reached her uppermost limit.

[jpwong]

Incredible as it is, there are still grade school kids. Based on other manga by the author here, I'm led to believe that 130kph is considered very good at the high school level, much less the middle school level and that 150+ is considered exceptional in these age ranges.

At any rate, I'm excited to see what the next episode is going to be bringing us.

[monir]

Oh dear. One of the main reason why I'm not a fan of the sports aspect of things is that it inflates/deflates the nuances of the physical aspiration a particular sports requires. The fact is Aoba is a 14-15 year old girl. Right... moving on.

[Sackett]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

That's what I thought too, but I thought Monir was saying something else, and the only thing I could think of are physical body limitations.

To put this in perspective, real life major league baseball has the best fastballs topping at around 160 kph/100 mph. Kou basically implying Aoba is at 80% of 'pro level', and she acheiving this as a middle schooler, is no small feat indeed. Her being female might be the sexist thing, because of the fact that the average female has less muscle mass than the average male. (I personally think that is not sexist, as thinking otherwise is just being plain delusional) As such, throwing at 130 kph/80 mph might very well be the limit in real life for adult females, and thus Aoba reaching this at the middle school level would be a stretch.

But then again, what do I know? I actually never seen a female hardball team, let alone know the fastest fastballs one could expect a 'top ranked' female pitcher throw a hardball.

Not that I mind Aoba being 'larger than life', as she's supposed to be a baseball prodigy after all. I mean, its not only her, as Adachi has written just as big if not bigger 'exaggerations' for his male protagonists throughout his career. (But to be fair, Adachi was much more careful/smart by not ever even so much imply at what speed Aoba pitches at in the manga, so he dodged this issue quite nicely there)

I don't have much problem with it, since girls tend to have their growth spurt much earlier than boys. By the end of middle school many girls have already finished growing, while boys are just starting their growth spurts.

My understanding from my brother (who is a pitcher) is that physical factors such as height and arm length and so forth create hard limits on the speed a pitcher can reach. This means that Aoba has probably already reached her physical limitations and simply cannot improve anymore (in terms of pure speed). (Of course, most 16 year old players would still be able to improve because they lack the disciple and physical training- but Aoba is assumed not to have that problem).

Aoba probably represents the theoretical limit of a perfectly trained pitcher of her age and sex. (Maybe slightly surpassing it- after all, this is fiction.)

[Sackett]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I definitely took it to mean, "Aoba throws at least 130 so if you want a match wiith her, these wimpy machines won't cut it."

Meo, Kou definitely is climbing the GAR-o-meter. He's a wonderful character - quite unconcerned with how anyone else perceives him and perfectly content to measure himself against himself. His devotion to Wakaba is fitting, though it is starting to feel a little painful - she certainly would have wanted him to move on by now.

Kou is wonderful. I see him as more crippled by Wakaba's death then most of his friends and family realize. The most recent episode I think highlights it even more with Kou's strange comment about not having to think about pointless things.

I think Kou doesn't have any plans for himself anymore- I mean... I think it goes back to the comment he made in the first episode: "What am I supposed to do now?"

Wakaba's death left him directionless- and pretty much all he's been doing since is keep heading on the path Wakaba set him on.

It's a little worrisome.

The only other character who understands at all is Aoba- because she has been devastated by Wakaba's death almost as badly as Kou.

It's probably why trying to put the two of them together is so irresistible. Any other woman is going to have problems with Kou's devotion to Wakaba. Not to mention any other woman Kou is attracted too will probably remind him of Wakaba somehow... I can already see the frustration: "I am not Wakaba!!"

And giving Wakaba up... that might tear Kou up even more.

Aoba seems perfect for Kou because she's not going to be jealous of Kou's attachment to Wakaba (in fact it's the other way around she's jealous of Wakaba's attachment to Kou). Additionally, Kou seems to understand Aoba's grief better than most- and certainly better than any other man will.

Unfortunately, just as Wakaba connects them so strongly, I think it also drives them apart... I don't know, I'm just sensing that their memory of Wakaba is as much a hinderance as a benefit to a relationship... I wonder if the author will even put them together- or if they'll just become friends.

Just a sense I'm getting.

Anyway, on another note:

When is Cross Game going to finally be promoted to Current Series status?

I mean come on... it's one of the best (if not the best) of the Spring 2009 anime, and it's going to continue into summer which is looking mighty lean.

Sigh...

On to the most recent episode. (Subs are out)

Spoiler for New Episode summary:

Apparently Aoba the tsundere is melting faster than I expected- as she actually volunteered to take Kou his clothes at his Baseball summer camp. We also get to see Kou panic when he thinks Aoba might have drowned in the river- and it was all recorded on tape for him to be suitably embarrassed by when Aoba turns up safe and sound.

We already knew that Kou and Aoba's relationship was more complicated than "I hate him", still it was nice to see that development deepened and expounded upon. Plus Sena came along to act as comic relief, so not only are we aware of Kou and Aoba's strange vitriolic friendship, but now Sena is too.

Oh and on the baseball front Kou is now clearly the Ace and inspiration for the whole team- meanwhile the Evil Coach is being a turd towards his star players, while Good Old Man Coach is beating his players into shape with a stick. (It's called Tough Love).

PS: Aoba in the sleeveless jersey... was that another subtle reference to Aoba's lack of feminine modesty?

[Theowne]

It certainly is the best series airing now, but it doesn't seem to be warranting enough discussion to merit it's own forum.

I thought Honey and Clover was one of the best series of the past decade but that didn't get it's own forum either, I guess for the same reason.

I guess these are the kind of shows you watch and enjoy, there's nothing really controversial or mysterious to discuss about them. I had the idea of blogging episode by episode, but I couldn't write enough to fill a blog post, even though it's one of my favourite shows in a long while.

Loved the episode. Funny and charming, just what I'd expect. I especially liked the joke with the old man filming Kou - that was just utterly strange and thus funny in an unpredictable way.

[MeoTwister5]

After watching this episode and seeing Kou train solo, I really have only one complaint with the show so far:

Why isn't Kou's shoelocker stuffed with panties and assorted women's lingerie? At this point most guys like him would need a snow plow to pave away all the T's and A's getting in between him and baseball practice.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

After watching this episode and seeing Kou train solo, I really have only one complaint with the show so far:

Why isn't Kou's shoelocker stuffed with panties and assorted women's lingerie? At this point most guys like him would need a snow plow to pave away all the T's and A's getting in between him and baseball practice.

People watch too much anime and come to expect those unrealistic things.

[Theowne]

I've restrained myself from clicking those spoiler buttons but now you've got me worried that this show may take a nose dive. I hope not.....

[NeoSam]

The Cross Game wiki entry does give the wrong impression... but thanks to Falkor who PMed me with the explanation... I'll be continuing with the anime afterall

Thanks golthin and flawful for the explanation too

[Heibi]

Originally Posted by Theowne

I've restrained myself from clicking those spoiler buttons but now you've got me worried that this show may take a nose dive. I hope not.....

I don't think you have to worry about that. As long as the Naruto producers don't get a hold of it we should be fine.

The main story is advancing and the sub-plots seem to be building well, in my humble opinion.

[totalnet]

I was wondering when someone spill the big surprise from the manga. Well you can kind of figure it out if watched the OP carefully.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Theowne

I've restrained myself from clicking those spoiler buttons but now you've got me worried that this show may take a nose dive. I hope not.....

I read them (because I don't mind being spoiled) and I actually think things sound really interesting and I can't wait to see this stuff animated. If you are open minded I don't think you have to worry.

[Theowne]

Good to know. I wonder how long I can last without just reading the manga or spoiling myself. I'm not used to watching ongoing series of this length, I almost always watch completed series. Because when I get interested in a show, I become obsessed with it . I finished the nearly 100 episode Maison Ikkoku in less than two weeks. 51 weeks wait to finish this story? This is going to be tough