2010-06-28, 05:07 | Link #11901 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Quote:
The portrait is said to have been put up in April 1984, but no mention is made of whether the epitaph was simultaneous with it or not -- one presumes it was. See the timeline in my sig for more details.
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2010-06-28, 05:13 | Link #11902 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Quote:
As far as I can see, only Kanon is never seen during dinner by pretty much anyone, so he has those four hours to do something fun. In particular in Ep2, though, Shannon is supposedly serving the dinner in the VIP room to "Beatrice" during this time, and Kanon is still not seen during dinner as far as I remember.
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2010-06-28, 05:18 | Link #11903 |
Crazy but OK xP
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands
Age: 31
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@ Oliver: This can be cleaned up in under an hour, which still leaves an hour unexplained.
Can't it be that the diner is made when the cousins are called or when everyone is present? that would also take some time to make.... Because I'm sure they would like to eat their meal when it's warm, and if they have to wait like 2 hours the food would be cold and I dont think Gohda would put his precious/hard work food in a microwave so it's all warm again |
2010-06-28, 05:37 | Link #11904 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Quote:
In Ep1, at 18:00, cousins are hanging out in the guesthouse, and Kanon comes to fetch them. This would be precisely the right time to fetch them if the expected time for the dinner to start would be 18:30. This would also be the perfect moment for Krauss to start banging on the door. Even assuming that the cousins are late because of being held up by Maria in the garden, they can't be held up for more than half an hour, so the dinner has to start no later than 19:00 -- but then, nobody comments that the cousins are late, there's no reason why Kanon is so early to fetch them, and the text actually feels like they aren't late in the end anyway. This sort of settles the dinner length to one and a half hours, extra half hour for talking about the Beatrice Letter and the cousins running away right before 22:00, which feels about right. But it still leaves me puzzled at why the time of dinner in such a rigidly regulated, almost Victorian household is not well fixed.
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2010-06-28, 05:53 | Link #11905 |
Crazy but OK xP
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands
Age: 31
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I've found something about Victorian diner time's of the upperclass and the noble's 0.0
I dunno if it helps or anything but you'll never know: 1730 & '40: diner time at 3 or 4 in the afternoon. 1770: Diner time at 4 or 5. 1790: Dinner at perhaps five or six p.m. Then it was “afternoon” until evening came with supper, sometime between nine p.m. and two a.m. 1800: diner at 6 or 7 1840: diner at 8 or 9 If you look at this you would say they have about the same diner time as the Victorian people in 1790 ^^;; |
2010-06-28, 05:55 | Link #11906 |
Wild Speculator
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 13th Hierarchical City Kagutsuchi
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According to your explanation Oliver I'm a little confused. Say they start eating at 19:00 and eat for an hour and a half plus spend 30 mins on talking about that letter, we get 19+2=21 for 21:00. Where does that extra hour between the talking and running away to the guesthouse go? Gah, the more I try to think of logical explanations for why dinner would take 4 hours long, the less sense I make of it cause 4 hours just seems too long.
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2010-06-28, 06:06 | Link #11907 |
Intellectual Rapist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
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I have a line of logic I would like to run through here.
Battler makes some sort of cheesy promise to return to Shanon. However, he does not and Shanon falls in love with George. Because of her love for George, she can no longer love Battler thus Beatrice is born. During sometime in her employment, Shanon found out where the gold hidden. Years later, Battler returns to a family conference and knowing this Shanon planned for a special event. She planned to carry out the epitaph without actually sacrificing people. Shanon only planned to drug people to be in an unconscious, dead-like state. She also had planted a bomb that is set to explode at at midnight on the second day of the family conference. The person Shanon wants to discover the gold is in fact Battler. The reasoning for this is the rewards in the epitaph for discovering the gold. 1 - All of the gold, duh. 2 - Resurrection of all the dead, no one was supposed to die so they should come back. 3 and 4 - And this is the key, resurrection of the lost love and the witch will be put to sleep forever. Shanon would once again love Battler and there will be no need for Beatrice anymore. The 4th reward could also be linked to the disarming of the bomb. However, things go awry and someone starts murdering the twilight sacrifices. I still can't think of a motive for someone to do that but that's what I got so far. |
2010-06-28, 06:09 | Link #11908 | ||
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Quote:
Mind you, I don't think the times you found are directly applicable, because of the wacky Japanese Standard Time, shifted and distorted compared to how the rest of the world prefers to measure their day. People waking up around 05:00 is perfectly normal in Japan, because the time zone is set up so that 18:00 is when it's definitely already dark. Quote:
That means that there is still an hour long hole either before or after dinner -- either the cousins run away a whole hour later, watching Maria get interrogated the whole time when they instantly ran away from Rosa chewing her out or they actually start eating at 20:00, which wouldn't feel too odd if Kanon didn't come to fetch them at 18:00+X where X as seen in the text is definitely under 30 minutes! Alternatively, the dinner from the moment everyone is seated to the moment the cousins run away takes 3:30, which feels pretty much ridiculous.
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2010-06-28, 06:14 | Link #11909 |
Wild Speculator
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 13th Hierarchical City Kagutsuchi
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I've been toying with a similar line of thought. The one part where we really diverge though is at the bombing cause I just don't see a reason for it. She wants to have Battler love her again so she plans on really killing everyone if he doesn't find the gold?
As for motive, I can see either George out of jealousy or the fake deaths enabling other parties to carry out their own murder plans/impulses. Which is somewhat unrealistic unfortunately. |
2010-06-28, 06:14 | Link #11910 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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This is currently one of the dominant ideas, but multiple variants are possible, because multiple possible Beatrice identities fit it. In particular, most Shkanontrice, Shannontrice and Jessitrice-based theories all work with this or a very similar pattern.
Which to pick is still an open question and recently, the base of this pattern is getting doubted, see the last 3000-4000 postings or so for multiple incidents.
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2010-06-28, 06:21 | Link #11911 |
Intellectual Rapist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
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Well, first off the bombing is of a person not in their right mind. The kind of person who has to create multiple personalities to cope with reality.
Second, I do not look up Umineko stuff on the web. I post here and look at the wikia/wikipedia from time to time. So, if someone else has made the exact same connections as I have then good for them. If I had to go with one to pick, even though Shkanontrice is mundane I would say that. Shanon already has two personalities at least, who says she can't fit one more up in that head of hers. Also, it would explain why the person who wrote the letter using Maria's name knew that there may or may not be a body. Kanon kind of fits the build, too. Battler cannot be together with Shanon, Battler would love someone who looks like Beatrice, and Battler would never date a person like Kanon. So, in a fit of jealousy because Shanon and Beatrice decided to give Battler a chance, Kanon tries to ruin the ceremony. |
2010-06-28, 06:22 | Link #11912 |
Crazy but OK xP
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands
Age: 31
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Maybe I should move to Japan (Always wakes up arround 4/5 am)
But the cousins may not walk straight to the mansion, knowing Jessica&Battler, they will quarrel arround and George will just stand from a distance with a smile on his face and with Kanon next to him sighing.. Or something like that ^^;; |
2010-06-28, 06:27 | Link #11914 |
Crazy but OK xP
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands
Age: 31
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They've got umberella's (did I spell it right 0.0?) with them right?
Because they also had umberella's with them when they went to Maria in the rain... Last edited by Dlanor A. Knox; 2010-06-28 at 06:28. Reason: grammar >.> |
2010-06-28, 06:27 | Link #11915 |
Wild Speculator
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 13th Hierarchical City Kagutsuchi
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Now, I could be completely making this up but I've heard that sometimes dinners in Europe last longer than say an American dinner. So maybe an hour and a half can be stretched out further if the Ushiromiya's eat in such a manner. But is it really possible to extend a dinner to two and a half hours?
edit: even with umbrellas I'm not too sure anyone would really wanna stay outside in that kind of weather for too long. |
2010-06-28, 06:32 | Link #11917 |
Crazy but OK xP
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands
Age: 31
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I dont know how long an American Dinner takes.
But here in The Netherlands Dinner takes from 30 min to an hour and when we are with the whole family, whe mostly stay chatting after dinner and play games and sort. ^^ |
2010-06-28, 06:35 | Link #11918 | ||
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Quote:
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Also... it takes me 7 minutes to walk 500m - I know that exactly, because that pathway was once a runner's track and was marked up with distances. Assuming they walk two times slower than me, it would be 15 minutes. It's 2km to Kuwadorian on the other side of the island. Is the mansion really so far from the guesthouse that a slow walk is longer than 20 minutes?... Granted, it does, but that's all the more reason to start well in advance.
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2010-06-28, 06:47 | Link #11920 |
Crazy but OK xP
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands
Age: 31
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Well the french people eat at 7pm till 11pm
But now I think about it, since the Ushiromiya's are all luxery the would have: 1:apretizer 2:another dish (dont know the name in english) 3: head court 4: Dessert And the Supper ofcourse.... ... THAT'S ALOT!! *jealous* |
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