Character Discussion - Kallen

[X_Danny_X]

Originally Posted by youngde

1) Why is it fair to kill Kallen? She (like most of us) doesn't even know what the Requiem is. If she's told, and the Requiem is a good thing, then she would probably go along with it. If she's told, and it's bad (unlikely, but possible), then I say it's fair to fry Lelouch.

2) I think there are plenty of anime series that got through the entire series with the main cast still alive that are well known. Also, the other three mains seem to have more death flags than Kallen at this point. Kallen is the only one that still has a life to go back to; I would be sad of she's the one that bites it.

well i mean if she is trying to kill Lelouch, then Lelouch has the right to defense herself to the same extent...meaning killing her if necessary. that is basically all on that. i dont think though that she is going to do it.


yes i know there are bigger death flags than her at stake. but it will be a huge shock and surprise that she is the one that gets killed instead of the others...the series will be remember more when shocking and unexpected death occurs that leaves your mouth wide open and your mind wondering why!


also i forgot to mentioned in her match against Suzaku, i just wanted to mentioned that possibly the writers will make both go all out and make Suzaku use Live Geass for the hell of it. just to show both pilots capabilities and mecha abilities.

[Vakir]

Originally Posted by youngde

Along that line of reasoning, the American Revolution was a big act of terrorism and the USA's founding fathers were terrorists. At any rate, this has been discussed before, and I'm not going to do it again. This is the last you'll hear from me on this particular subject.

Everyone's a terrorist from the classical definition of it.

Every government ever implemented has been a terrorist because they need to police things in order to set laws and boundaries. Hell, every FICTIONAL SUPERHERO (as opposed to the non-fictional ones? Nevermind) is a terrorist. No exceptions.

Terrorism and terrorist are stupid weasel words in general. The idea here is not to let people slip by for stupid crap. Kallen is not exempt from blame, but then NO ONE in the show is.

[youngde]

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

yes i know there are bigger death flags than her at stake. but it will be a huge shock and surprise that she is the one that gets killed instead of the others...the series will be remember more when shocking and unexpected death occurs that leaves your mouth wide open and your mind wondering why!

also i forgot to mentioned in her match against Suzaku, i just wanted to mentioned that possibly the writers will make both go all out and make Suzaku use Live Geass for the hell of it. just to show both pilots capabilities and mecha abilities.

Unfortunately, being remembered and being remembered fondly are two different things entirely. At any rate, I currently think it would be MORE shocking if all main four made it (not that I wouldn't be happy mind you).

I agree, but I wouldn't put it past Kallen to pull out an upset. She's always been about even w/ Suzaku in machines w/ similar specs, and the 'Live On' Geass thing seems to give Suzaku the advantage. I figure it's likely that the 'Live On' Geass has to fail at some point, and this series seems to enjoy WTF moments.

[Vakir]

Originally Posted by youngde

Unfortunately, being remembered and being remembered fondly are two different things entirely. At any rate, I currently think it would be MORE shocking if all main four made it (not that I wouldn't be happy mind you).

Money's on C.C. and Suzaku dying. Sorry. All four making it out? You must be confusing this with every non-mecha anime ever. >_>

I agree, but I wouldn't put it past Kallen to pull out an upset. She's always been about even w/ Suzaku in machines w/ similar specs, and the 'Live On' Geass thing seems to give Suzaku the advantage. I figure it's likely that the 'Live On' Geass has to fail at some point, and this series seems to enjoy WTF moments.

Kallen's made Suzaku look like a bitch way too many times. For everytime he's won, she's always just done a little "O.o" face and it's over and he leaves, making the win even a little ambiguous. For everytime he's lost, she's been on the precise urge of killing him and he semi-DEMs out of it. I'm sorry, but neither side should win this, but if one side has to, it should really go to the person on the side of the MAIN CHARACTER who has had his credibility pretty much raped by never beating anyone on an equal footing.

[youngde]

Originally Posted by Vakir

Kallen's made Suzaku look like a bitch way too many times. For everytime he's won, she's always just done a little "O.o" face and it's over and he leaves, making the win even a little ambiguous. For everytime he's lost, she's been on the precise urge of killing him and he semi-DEMs out of it. I'm sorry, but neither side should win this, but if one side has to, it should really go to the person on the side of the MAIN CHARACTER who has had his credibility pretty much raped by never beating anyone on an equal footing.

To the best of my knowledge, she only beat him twice.

But seriously, I don't see either one winning because I'm pretty sure they'll be able to put aside their differences when UNQUENCHABLE, HORRIBLE, FLAMING DEATH STARTS TO RAIN DOWN FROM THE SKY. It's funny how things like that stop an arguement and put everything in perspective.

[Dandylion]

Originally Posted by youngde

Unfortunately, being remembered and being remembered fondly are two different things entirely. At any rate, I currently think it would be MORE shocking if all main four made it (not that I wouldn't be happy mind you).

I agree, but I wouldn't put it past Kallen to pull out an upset. She's always been about even w/ Suzaku in machines w/ similar specs, and the 'Live On' Geass thing seems to give Suzaku the advantage. I figure it's likely that the 'Live On' Geass has to fail at some point, and this series seems to enjoy WTF moments.

When has geass failed?

[Vakir]

Originally Posted by youngde

To the best of my knowledge, she only beat him twice.

But seriously, I don't see either one winning because I'm pretty sure they'll be able to put aside their differences when UNQUENCHABLE, HORRIBLE, FLAMING DEATH STARTS TO RAIN DOWN FROM THE SKY. It's funny how things like that stop an arguement and put everything in perspective.

Well, yes. The fight is likely going to be put on hold when Schneizel's true intentions are outed, probably by a geassed Diethard. If either of them were to lose, it means they don't get to participate in the final battle, which would be a serious fan disservice. Which is why I said neither should really "win."

When has geass failed?

series seems to enjoy WTF moments

[Dandylion]

Originally Posted by youngde

To the best of my knowledge, she only beat him twice.

But seriously, I don't see either one winning because I'm pretty sure they'll be able to put aside their differences when UNQUENCHABLE, HORRIBLE, FLAMING DEATH STARTS TO RAIN DOWN FROM THE SKY. It's funny how things like that stop an arguement and put everything in perspective.

Nah, they're pretty much even either receiving upgrades during the fight or on equal footings

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Dandylion

When has geass failed?

It hasn't, thus the future tense. And the line means that it would fail to help him win, not fail to activate.

[Dandylion]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

It hasn't, thus the future tense. And the line means that it would fail to help him win, not fail to activate.

That's just wishful thinking on everyone's part really, I meant geass as a whole when Lelouch uses it on people, has it ever failed?

[Vakir]

Originally Posted by Dandylion

That's just wishful thinking on everyone's part really, I meant geass as a whole when Lelouch uses it on people, has it ever failed?

It's arguable that Euphie broke the Geass of her own will when she was with Suzaku.

If not, there's always the fallback argument that Bismarck's Geass wouldn't necessarily be enough, thus Suzaku's may not.

But really, I don't want Kallen to win either. Shit would just be STUPID. "The Big Four" barely exists, it's more like "the Big Three" if you look at 95% of the press material out there.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Dandylion

That's just wishful thinking on everyone's part really, I meant geass as a whole when Lelouch uses it on people, has it ever failed?

You're still hung up on "failed" and missing the point. If he were killed while it was active, it will not have failed. It will have been overcome. For example, remember the girl in season 1 who lelouch ordered to make a mark on the wall every day without exception? I forget where it says this exactly, but now she's in a Britannian insane asylum, because every day she is compelled to return to Japan to mark that wall. The command is working, she just can't follow through.

[Vakir]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

You're still hung up on "failed" and missing the point. If he were killed while it was active, it will not have failed. It will have been overcome. For example, remember the girl in season 1 who lelouch ordered to make a mark on the wall every day without exception? I forget where it says this exactly, but now she's in a Britannian insane asylum, because every day she is compelled to return to Japan to mark that wall. The command is working, she just can't follow through.

*marks another reason to not like Lelouch on the wall*

MUST...COME BACK...EVERY DAY.

[youngde]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

You're still hung up on "failed" and missing the point. If he were killed while it was active, it will not have failed. It will have been overcome. For example, remember the girl in season 1 who lelouch ordered to make a mark on the wall every day without exception? I forget where it says this exactly, but now she's in a Britannian insane asylum, because every day she is compelled to return to Japan to mark that wall. The command is working, she just can't follow through.

Assuming you're kidding about the insane asylum thing, otherwise where the frick did you hear that!?!

[Dandylion]

Originally Posted by Vakir

It's arguable that Euphie broke the Geass of her own will when she was with Suzaku.

If not, there's always the fallback argument that Bismarck's Geass wouldn't necessarily be enough, thus Suzaku's may not.

But really, I don't want Kallen to win either. Shit would just be STUPID. "The Big Four" barely exists, it's more like "the Big Three" if you look at 95% of the press material out there.

Euphie broke it herself because it was against her will, Suzaku using it to his advantage might have been for Bismarck only because his geass could see the future but other than that Lelouch's geass has never failed it was the the victims who lost

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by youngde

Assuming you're kidding about the insane asylum thing, otherwise where the frick did you hear that!?!

Oh I'm not kidding, and I'm fairly certain this was explained somewhere. It's been repeated on this forum a couple of times. All the students were sent back to Britannia, that girl included. She keeps trying to go back and so they locked her up.

Originally Posted by Dandylion

Euphie broke it herself because it was against her will, Suzaku using it to his advantage might have been for Bismarck only because his geass could see the future but other than that Lelouch's geass has never failed it was the the victims who lost

Which no one is denying. Get off "failed", it's just a way of saying it wasn't enough to keep him alive. Geass commands cannot do the impossible.

[Dandylion]

Originally Posted by youngde

Assuming you're kidding about the insane asylum thing, otherwise where the frick did you hear that!?!

You mean you haven't heard of wall carve-tan the girl Lelouch geassed in Season one to test his geass durability will it turns out she moved and her parents apparently locked her in her room because they believe she was sleep walking due to the command.

[Dandylion]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

You're still hung up on "failed" and missing the point. If he were killed while it was active, it will not have failed. It will have been overcome. For example, remember the girl in season 1 who lelouch ordered to make a mark on the wall every day without exception? I forget where it says this exactly, but now she's in a Britannian insane asylum, because every day she is compelled to return to Japan to mark that wall. The command is working, she just can't follow through.

What? how can he die if the command was to live, meaning he would try to figure the best advantage to fight or escape from the situation

[youngde]

Originally Posted by Dandylion

What? how can he die if the command was to live, meaning he would try to figure the best advantage to fight or escape from the situation

It's not like the Geass makes him all powerful. If he gets into a situation where he couldn't win AND couldn't run, he would die. Lelouch Geassed Shirley to live too, but it didn't stop her from bleeding to death. The Live command can only overcome so much.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Dandylion

What? how can he die if the command was to live, meaning he would try to figure the best advantage to fight or escape from the situation

This will be a completely out there hypothetical, but bear with me. Say the Death Star suddenly shows up in Code Geass and Palpatine decides to blow up the Earth. Just for kicks, he tells everyone this, Suzaku included. Suzaku's live Geass activates, and he runs for the Lancelot, because just for the hell of it the Lancelot can exit the atmosphere. But wait, Palpatine can talk faster than Suzaku can run, and blows up the Earth. Suzaku is dead. Did his command fail? No. he was trying to live the entire time. His Geass command cannot allow him to breathe in space or teleport, because it cannot do the impossible.

If his command activated against Kallen, yet she managed to destroy his weapons and get the claw on him, his command would not matter. She'd fry him and he'd die, despite his best efforts to live.