AnimeSuki Forums

Keroko · 2011-11-30, 10:52

Why? Because they're girls? Because honestly, that's the only real difference here.

Koveras Alvane · 2011-11-30, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board

I've seen spoilers

Can you give sauce or repost it?

Quote:

Signum goes into unison mode with Reinforce to fight Touma

I thought Signum's unison compatibility with Reinforce wasn't very high

It wasn't as good as with Agito, but it was still workable and Rein is made from the same basic material as Signum (Hayate's Linker Core, essentially), so their Unison may be less straining on Signum's recuperating body.

00-Raiser · 2011-11-30, 11:07

Girls in anime seem to connect... way too easily. I've seen so many animes where two girls, meeting for the very first time, will say "Let's be friends!" and then they're friends. No consideration to be incompatible or anything, they just become friends because they declare it.

Akiyoshi · 2011-11-30, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board

I've seen spoilers

Signum goes into unison mode with Reinforce to fight Touma

I thought Signum's unison compatibility with Reinforce wasn't very high

I'm confused, exactly what kind of advantage Signum can get from unisoning against someone like Tohma?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane

It wasn't as good as with Agito, but it was still workable and Rein is made from the same basic material as Signum (Hayate's Linker Core, essentially), so their Unison may be less straining on Signum's recuperating body.

I will run with this theory and guess that Signum isn't completely recovered yet and the unison with Reinforce helps to put herself togheter in order to fight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

How is this special? Every character is liked by everyone in the main cast. Everyone liked Fate when she joined the good guys, everyone liked Hayate when they met her, everyone liked the forwards when they met them, everyone liked Einhart when they met her and now everyone liked Thoma.

Besides, everyone besides Lily and Isis has known Thoma for years.

Yup, but we see developement with most of the other cast when they're joined the heroes. Everyone loved Fate after a long introduction period aided by Nanoha. The Wolkenritter first clashed weapons with the girls before bonding with them, Hayate bonds with Suzuka first and then meets with Nanoha and Fate but only became best friends AFTER the Book of Darkness incident. The forwards get a somewhat free pass for being kids and the old cast being caring mentors to them(and even then they only bond with Nanoha and Fate at first, their relationship with other memeber of the cast is more military professional until latter chapters). Not all the numbers were instantly liked by the heroes and they go rehab before bonding with most of them(the first being Ginga).

I accept Tsuzuki attempted to give some background-ish flashbacks about Subaru and Tohma bu that didn't cover up for the fact that when he finally meet with the good guys everyone is like "hey, it's Tohma! Remeber Tohma? He's our best friend in the world! let's hug him!", compared with the other more developed relationships this feels kinds like out nowhere. It's not terribly jarring, i still think Tohma is an ok character, but is still a bit unsettling.

Keroko · 2011-11-30, 11:35

I still don't agree with the sentiment that the other sudden relations in Nanoha were somehow better developed. Particularly in Hayate's en Einhart's case, it was pretty much an "ohai, friends now? Cool." kind of thing. Miura is quickly going down that route as well "Yeah, we only heard about you from people we know and never actually met in person, but we're still going to send you an encouragement before your fight!"

Not to say this is bad, but you can accept all that and have problems with Thoma? I'm sorry, but I cannot help but sense bias here.

Nanya01 · 2011-11-30, 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

I still don't agree with the sentiment that the other sudden relations in Nanoha were somehow better developed. Particularly in Hayate's en Einhart's case, it was pretty much an "ohai, friends now? Cool." kind of thing. Miura is quickly going down that route as well "Yeah, we only heard about you from people we know and never actually met in person, but we're still going to send you an encouragement before your fight!"

Not to say this is bad, but you can accept all that and have problems with Thoma? I'm sorry, but I cannot help but sense bias here.

1: Touma's a male, most fans of Nanoha like the girls and yuri.
2: It's Force, you know how people are about Force.

Akiyoshi · 2011-11-30, 11:47

I'm not biased against Tohma, really, i don't like him either but so far think he just kind of "exist". To be fair Hayate is a very social person(what about adopting four messengers of doom as your family xD?), and if Einhart was well received it was thanks to Vivio and Nove who make the effort to introduce her to the other characters, it also helps that Einhart is an outstanding fighter, which is something other girl fighters like Rio and Corona find exciting and interesting and thus more motivated to open to Einhart.

I can't deny that you're right on Miura, tough. Even i was surprised at first because she appears and suddenly everyone knows who she is and likes her. The only difference, of course, is that i myself like Miura, heh.

Justin_Brett · 2011-11-30, 11:54

Quote:

Why? Because they're girls? Because honestly, that's the only real difference here.

It didn't feel like them trying to get people to like a character who didn't. Plus the fact that he's friends with them is why he didn't join the Huckebein, which is pretty important considering how the story could have changed otherwise.

Akiyoshi · 2011-11-30, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

It didn't feel like them trying to get people to like a character who didn't. Plus the fact that he's friends with them is why he didn't join the Huckebein, which is pretty important considering how the story could have changed otherwise.

Why Tohma starts to sound more and more like Kamui from X/1999?

Whichever side he chooses will be the winning side.

itanshi1 · 2011-11-30, 13:19

Actually, the problem is not that most fans like girls and yuri. Its that the series is marketed at males and so they force feed us excessive females. (sister princess?) Then we have the whole problem of 'Damn that's like 30 asexual characters. No love life at all. We've seen them grow up to our ages and nothing' at that point if not sooner, we are forced into yuri.

Weakness in story telling that also forces us to believe mid-childa is an amazoness world with a single city.

Justin_Brett · 2011-11-30, 15:36

Well, given how the Touma and Lily romance has been going so far, I'm not surprised Tsuzuki never went that route before.

Akiyoshi · 2011-11-30, 15:46

To be fair, Tohma's relationship with Lily seems to be more straightforward than previous male-female ones in the frnachise. Unlike Yuuno he's a determined boy that, while gently, is also angry at various aspects of his life and channel that anger into fuel his motivation to cintinue living as himself, in resume, he's a more agressive character and that helps to erase that image of "men are the weak sex in the Nanohaverse". Also, unlike Chrono, is a main character which guarantees he will always receive some decent amount of focus from time to time which will help to(arguably, it depends on Tsuzuki's writing skills) flesh out his developement and relationship with other characters more.

One needs to be blind to not be aware of all the teasing Tsuzuki is making around those two, inner bonding, engage ring, engage suit(black for the male, white for the female), needing Lily to be "himself". Of course, knowing Tsuzuki, this probably will never reach official status but the hints are there. Also, so far, Isis seems to care deeply for both of them like a big sis or something which fits with Tsuzuki's writing style as i think he would prefer to avoid the whole "Love Triangle" thing.

By the way, i don't know why but i have the arkward feeling that Veyron and Curren could make a good couple(well, as "good" as a couple of serial killers can be xDU).

Justin_Brett · 2011-11-30, 15:50

Well there's no real marketing reason not to make it official. I doubt that many fans are clamoring for Isis/Lily.

And I dunno. He's only gotten mad once or twice, and only with people who have provoked it.

00-Raiser · 2011-11-30, 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Why Tohma starts to sound more and more like Kamui from X/1999?

Whichever side he chooses will be the winning side.

Um, no. Kamui would have only won had he joined the Dragons of the Earth. The Kamui of the Dragons of Heaven was always destined to lose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Well, given how the Touma and Lily romance has been going so far

You mean not at all?

People only assume there's going to be a romance between them because he's a boy and she's a girl. They've shown no such interest in each other.

Akiyoshi · 2011-11-30, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Well there's no real marketing reason not to make it official. I doubt that many fans are clamoring for Isis/Lily.

Yup, fans are more busy clamoring for Isis/Arnage xD!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

And I dunno. He's only gotten mad once or twice, and only with people who have provoked it.

But lots of people already acknowledged to his hidden anger, Tohma is a goob boy without doubt but he also hides inner pain and anger for what happened to him and his loved ones. A pain strong enough to not letting him enjoy the happiness of a new caring family, he started his journy to find answers and find the possibility of getting over his pain in order to allow herself to accept and enjoy a new life full of happiness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Um, no. Kamui would have only won had he joined the Dragons of the Earth. The Kamui of the Dragons of Heaven was always destined to lose.

That's only true for one of the three installements, X is a very weird case with three different media using three different endings. Dragons of earth win in the Movie, Dragons of heaven "win" in the anime, and the manga is currently unconclusive so we are still waiting for the true finale.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

People only assume there's going to be a romance between them because he's a boy and she's a girl. They've shown no such interest in each other.

Not yet, and probably never gonna happen, but one can deny the insane amount of "bridal" imagery and simbolism surrounding the duo. I'm pretty sure we will never get to see images of Chrono, Yuuno or Zafira in a tuxedo carrying a girl dressed as a bride xDU.

Justin_Brett · 2011-11-30, 16:01

He doesn't necessarily have to be bitter and angry to want revenge over something. So far he's more Shirou than Van from Gun X Sword. If he is hiding those things and suddenly goes ballistic, that sounds kind of asspully the way things are going.

Quote:

People only assume there's going to be a romance between them because he's a boy and she's a girl. They've shown no such interest in each other.

I hope not, then. I've seen this sort of romance before, and done better.

Akiyoshi · 2011-11-30, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

He doesn't necessarily have to be bitter and angry to want revenge over something. So far he's more Shirou than Van from Gun X Sword. If he is hiding those things and suddenly goes ballistic, that sounds kind of asspully the way things are going.

The thing is, he already do that before ....Divide Zero ECLIPSE, remember?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

I hope not, then. I've seen this sort of romance before, and done better.

Like Raiser said, is very improbable, the story didn't allow for romantic developement, if some romance ever is explored i think it will be kind of a "Macross Romance" or a "Gundam" one, something like "our hearts find comfort in each other and togheter gather strenght to survive this difficult times of war" or something like that.

Justin_Brett · 2011-11-30, 16:25

So, a canonical one? That's what most romances in Gundam and Macross are, for better or worse.

And yeah it did, but it also put him in a coma shortly afterward. He wasn't willingly fighting anyone for the most part.

Akiyoshi · 2011-11-30, 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

So, a canonical one? That's what most romances in Gundam and Macross are, for better or worse.

Just myself talking "out of my butt" as always xD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

And yeah it did, but it also put him in a coma shortly afterward. He wasn't willingly fighting anyone for the most part.

Agreed, but the point is, we learned that Tohma is also screwed up to some degree, we learned about the existence of the pain and anger inside his heart.

Justin_Brett · 2011-11-30, 16:32

Yeah, but if it just pops up now and then for berserker moments and doesn't affect his character outside of that...

2011-11-30, 11:07	Link #4523
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	Girls in anime seem to connect... way too easily. I've seen so many animes where two girls, meeting for the very first time, will say "Let's be friends!" and then they're friends. No consideration to be incompatible or anything, they just become friends because they declare it. __________________

2011-11-30, 11:47	Link #4527
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	I'm not biased against Tohma, really, i don't like him either but so far think he just kind of "exist". To be fair Hayate is a very social person(what about adopting four messengers of doom as your family xD?), and if Einhart was well received it was thanks to Vivio and Nove who make the effort to introduce her to the other characters, it also helps that Einhart is an outstanding fighter, which is something other girl fighters like Rio and Corona find exciting and interesting and thus more motivated to open to Einhart. I can't deny that you're right on Miura, tough. Even i was surprised at first because she appears and suddenly everyone knows who she is and likes her. The only difference, of course, is that i myself like Miura, heh. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2011-11-30, 13:19	Link #4530
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	Actually, the problem is not that most fans like girls and yuri. Its that the series is marketed at males and so they force feed us excessive females. (sister princess?) Then we have the whole problem of 'Damn that's like 30 asexual characters. No love life at all. We've seen them grow up to our ages and nothing' at that point if not sooner, we are forced into yuri. Weakness in story telling that also forces us to believe mid-childa is an amazoness world with a single city. __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2011-11-30, 15:46	Link #4532
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	To be fair, Tohma's relationship with Lily seems to be more straightforward than previous male-female ones in the frnachise. Unlike Yuuno he's a determined boy that, while gently, is also angry at various aspects of his life and channel that anger into fuel his motivation to cintinue living as himself, in resume, he's a more agressive character and that helps to erase that image of "men are the weak sex in the Nanohaverse". Also, unlike Chrono, is a main character which guarantees he will always receive some decent amount of focus from time to time which will help to(arguably, it depends on Tsuzuki's writing skills) flesh out his developement and relationship with other characters more. One needs to be blind to not be aware of all the teasing Tsuzuki is making around those two, inner bonding, engage ring, engage suit(black for the male, white for the female), needing Lily to be "himself". Of course, knowing Tsuzuki, this probably will never reach official status but the hints are there. Also, so far, Isis seems to care deeply for both of them like a big sis or something which fits with Tsuzuki's writing style as i think he would prefer to avoid the whole "Love Triangle" thing. By the way, i don't know why but i have the arkward feeling that Veyron and Curren could make a good couple(well, as "good" as a couple of serial killers can be xDU). __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2011-11-30, 10:52	Link #4521
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Why? Because they're girls? Because honestly, that's the only real difference here.

2011-11-30, 11:35	Link #4525
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	I still don't agree with the sentiment that the other sudden relations in Nanoha were somehow better developed. Particularly in Hayate's en Einhart's case, it was pretty much an "ohai, friends now? Cool." kind of thing. Miura is quickly going down that route as well "Yeah, we only heard about you from people we know and never actually met in person, but we're still going to send you an encouragement before your fight!" Not to say this is bad, but you can accept all that and have problems with Thoma? I'm sorry, but I cannot help but sense bias here.

2011-11-30, 15:36	Link #4531
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Well, given how the Touma and Lily romance has been going so far, I'm not surprised Tsuzuki never went that route before.

2011-11-30, 15:50	Link #4533
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Well there's no real marketing reason not to make it official. I doubt that many fans are clamoring for Isis/Lily. And I dunno. He's only gotten mad once or twice, and only with people who have provoked it.

2011-11-30, 16:25	Link #4538
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	So, a canonical one? That's what most romances in Gundam and Macross are, for better or worse. And yeah it did, but it also put him in a coma shortly afterward. He wasn't willingly fighting anyone for the most part.

2011-11-30, 16:32	Link #4540
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Yeah, but if it just pops up now and then for berserker moments and doesn't affect his character outside of that...