(L) Rosario+Vampire Manga

[Chris38]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

Spoiler for snip:

I agree with everything you just said except that Tsukune will need a new seal. While Tsukune does have the possibility to use all the power Moka gave him and maintain control while being fully transformed (as you said, red eyes, lighter hair color), I doubt he'll need anything different from the Holy Lock because unlike Moka, he is still primarily human as long as he maintains a human consciousness. He cannot permanently turn into a Vampire as long as he keeps control of his powers. That dual aspect of him will always be there. He can use Vampire powers freely, but his heart and soul remain human.

Take Hokuto again, for instance. Considering he was able to remove the Holy Lock but still maintain his own consciousness means that like Tsukune is doing now, Hokuto also trained to control his abilities to the point where he supposedly gained full control of them. That he was able to face Moka single-handedly (and Tsukune at the same time on top of that) is a good hint that he achieved what Tsukune is aiming for right now. Like Tsukune, he was still using the Holy Lock to hide that demonic energy and appearance. It's doubtful Tsukune will be any different.

You're right, but that could be possible because, Hokuto's Holy Lock was put under much less pressure then Tsukune's Holy Lock ... since Tsukune has a higher amount of youkai energy then Hokuto simply because, Tsukune has a much more potent youkai blood inside him then Hokuto has. ( Vampire blood > Outcast Ayashi blood )

So, I'm kind of wondering if Tsukune's Holy Lock will be able to survive through the process of Tsukune learning how to control his abilities ... and that's why I mentioned that Tsukune might need another seal.

If I think about it, you might be right in saying that when Tsukune master's his abilities he will start using the Holy Lock to hide his ayashi nature, since it might be possible that the growth of the lock that was mentioned by the headmaster (Rosario Vampire Season I, chapter 27, page 45) is simply that the seal Tsukune is curently wearing is getting more used to Tsukune's youkai energy, which might be the reason why the Holy Lock doesn't break anymore.

Will probably have to wait and see how things unfold, but if Tsukune's seal stays like that till the end, then it's true that Tsukune won't be needing another seal anymore. So you've got a point Yoko Takeo ... it's just that I was not taking into consideration that the Holy Lock Tsukune is currently wearing could hold on, till the end of this series and after Tsukune is going to master his abilities, which is still going to take some time to do.

Actually while it's true that Tsukune's soul and heart are going to remain human ... I'm more worried about what kind of mental developments Tsukune is going to undergo. I mean at this point he still needs to face the vampire instincts and nature, which are present inside the vampire blood. (which, when awakened currently cause Tsukune to succumb into his "rampaging mode" )

I mean I doubt they are going to disappear, since they are a part of Tsukune's vampire blood, which at the moment he has no control over, but since they are a part of what Tsukune has become ... sooner or later he will probably have to face them and this is the part that makes me worried, since I don't want Tsukune to loose his current personality, which I seem to have grown quite fond of and Tsukune merging with his "Ghoul" side is basically meaning that a new personality will be created which will have the most prominent aspect's of Tsukune's "human" nature combined with the warlike, arrogant, prideful nature of a vampire and it makes me a little anxious to see what the result of that sort of combination will be.

I hope that Tsukune will retain his current personality and him merging with the vampire aspect of his being is going to make him a little more proficient and less hesitant in combat, which are some of the problems Tsukune is currently having, but that's only my willful speculation since we don't know what the outcome is going to be.

Of course their might be more ways of dealing with the vampire aspect of Tsukune, but so far the only thing that I could think about is Tsukune merging with his vampire side and the outcome of that kind of a development is currently unknown.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Chris38

You're right, but that could be possible because, Hokuto's Holy Lock was put under much less pressure then Tsukune's Holy Lock ... since Tsukune has a higher amount of youkai energy then Hokuto simply because, Tsukune has a much more potent youkai blood inside him then Hokuto has. ( Vampire blood > Outcast Ayashi blood )

So, I'm kind of wondering if Tsukune's Holy Lock will be able to survive through the process of Tsukune learning how to control his abilities ... and that's why I mentioned that Tsukune might need another seal.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that Tsukune's demon energy was higher than Hokuto's. Hokuto actually fought Moka on his own, which hints towards Hokuto's Youki is on par with Moka's. If the Holy Lock can hold that much power, then I don't doubt it could hold Tsukune's as well.

Also, not all outcast Ayashi are weak. They are offspring from the union of two different kinds of Ayashi. There's a good chance that Kiria is a mixture of two extremely powerful Ayashi. I'd even go as far as saying that he's a mix between a Vampire and another Ayashi considering his fangs are like those of a Vampire's although his eyes are different. On top of that, I also have the impression that he's more powerful than he lets out to be, possibly even stronger than Moka.

Originally Posted by Chris38

If I think about it, you might be right in saying that when Tsukune master's his abilities he will start using the Holy Lock to hide his ayashi nature, since it might be possible that the growth of the lock that was mentioned by the headmaster (Rosario Vampire Season I, chapter 27, page 45) is simply that the seal Tsukune is curently wearing is getting more used to Tsukune's youkai energy, which might be the reason why the Holy Lock doesn't break anymore.

Will probably have to wait and see how things unfold, but if Tsukune's seal stays like that till the end, then it's true that Tsukune won't be needing another seal anymore. So you've got a point Yoko Takeo ... it's just that I was not taking into consideration that the Holy Lock Tsukune is currently wearing could hold on, till the end of this series and after Tsukune is going to master his abilities, which is still going to take some time to do.

Exactly. The only reason the seal was breaking was because Tsukune had no control of his Youki. But ever since he started training with Moka, he learned how to control it better. I think the way the seal works is that the more Youki is used by Tsukune, the further it breaks.

Another reason why the seal isn't breaking is probably because he's not using any more Youki than he already has before. The seal is keeping that Youki which Tsukune isn't using or isn't agitated in some way at bay. The more he uses though, the more it breaks, and the more Tsukune loses control. What I think the headmaster meant with that statement was actually that Tsukune is growing as the seal breaks and weakens. It could also be that the aim is to break the seal little by little, allowing Tsukune to access more power and gain control of it little by little until he no longer needs the seal to control it. At that point, he will need the renew the Holy Lock to hide his powers, considering he is able to control all of it at will.

Originally Posted by Chris38

Actually while it's true that Tsukune's soul and heart are going to remain human ... I'm more worried about what kind of mental developments Tsukune is going to undergo. I mean at this point he still needs to face the vampire instincts and nature, which are present inside the vampire blood. (which, when awakened currently cause Tsukune to succumb into his "rampaging mode" )

I mean I doubt they are going to disappear, since they are a part of Tsukune's vampire blood, which at the moment he has no control over, but since they are a part of what Tsukune has become ... sooner or later he will probably have to face them and this is the part that makes me worried, since I don't want Tsukune to loose his current personality, which I seem to have grown quite fond of and Tsukune merging with his "Ghoul" side is basically meaning that a new personality will be created which will have the most prominent aspect's of Tsukune's "human" nature combined with the warlike, arrogant, prideful nature of a vampire and it makes me a little anxious to see what the result of that sort of combination will be.

I hope that Tsukune will retain his current personality and him merging with the vampire aspect of his being is going to make him a little more proficient and less hesitant in combat, which are some of the problems Tsukune is currently having, but that's only my willful speculation since we don't know what the outcome is going to be.

If Tsukune's character were to change as a result of trying to control all his Vampire energy, I would guess that was only because he hasn't really controlled it perfectly and let some of the bloodlust filter into his own personality. I would imagine that if Tsukune gains full control, his own personality would remain the same. He would be more disciplined in the art of combat thanks to Moka, and I also want to emphasize that Tsukune has never been hesitant. Even before gaining his Vampire blood, Tsukune never hesitated to jump right in the middle of a battle to protect his friends. He'd done it against the student police (which I believe was the first time Tsukune had been injected with Vampire Blood), he'd done it against Hokuto, and many other times as well. Tsukune never backed down from a fight.

[kenjiharima]

^
Another reason to note Tsukune to be brave, yet weak at first. The development of his powers are not abrupt and it was hard earned and still he's learning up to now to control his gained powers.


And yes we need a NORMAL mirror on R+V to see the vamps reflection. Makes me wonder if Tsukune vamps/ghoul out he loses his reflection, wish Ikeda would answer those....

[Chris38]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

Spoiler for snip:

I wouldn't be so quick to say that Tsukune's demon energy was higher than Hokuto's. Hokuto actually fought Moka on his own, which hints towards Hokuto's Youki is on par with Moka's. If the Holy Lock can hold that much power, then I don't doubt it could hold Tsukune's as well.

Well, that might be a possibility but unless we learn more about his current condition, since if you don't remember Yoko Takeo in his last appearance Hokuto is pinned to a wheelchair ( Rosario + Vampire Season II, Chapter 28 page 3) and it could be caused by him using his youkai abilities too much. So it might mean that Hokuto couldn't control his power's effectively as well or he has used a higher amount of power then he was allowed to, since some kind of side-effects have apparently appeared which caused him to use a wheelchair to move around.

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

Spoiler for snip:

Also, not all outcast Ayashi are weak. They are offspring from the union of two different kinds of Ayashi. There's a good chance that Kiria is a mixture of two extremely powerful Ayashi. I'd even go as far as saying that he's a mix between a Vampire and another Ayashi considering his fangs are like those of a Vampire's although his eyes are different. On top of that, I also have the impression that he's more powerful than he lets out to be, possibly even stronger than Moka.

That's true, but we won't know for sure how strong Kiria is until we finally see him fighting seriously with someone and I doubt he will appear in the current arc, so we might have to wait a little longer, before we learn what Kiria's true potential is.

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

Spoiler for snip:

Exactly. The only reason the seal was breaking was because Tsukune had no control of his Youki. But ever since he started training with Moka, he learned how to control it better. I think the way the seal works is that the more Youki is used by Tsukune, the further it breaks.

I agree with you Yoko Takeo and it could be possible that Tsukune's seal works in that way. It could also be the reason why Tsukune's training has started so late. Maybe the headmaster wanted to weaken Tsukune's seal at first, before making Tsukune learn how to control his youkai energy, because at first the seal was so strong that training Tsukune wouldn't be as effective as it currently is.

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

Spoiler for snip:

Another reason why the seal isn't breaking is probably because he's not using any more Youki than he already has before. The seal is keeping that Youki which Tsukune isn't using or isn't agitated in some way at bay. The more he uses though, the more it breaks, and the more Tsukune loses control. What I think the headmaster meant with that statement was actually that Tsukune is growing as the seal breaks and weakens. It could also be that the aim is to break the seal little by little, allowing Tsukune to access more power and gain control of it little by little until he no longer needs the seal to control it. At that point, he will need the renew the Holy Lock to hide his powers, considering he is able to control all of it at will.

It seems like we are thinking in similar ways Yoko Takeo, since I don't have anything to add to this and I agree with what you said so far.

Though, judging from how the situation in the recent chapter's is shaping up I doubt Tsukune will be able to keep that pattern for long, since with the vampires joining the fray I doubt Tsukune is going to stand a chance against a vampire, without using the full extent of his youkai abilities. Of course so far he still isn't ready for that yet, which suggests we might see some more developments regarding Tsukune's abilities.

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

Spoiler for snip:

If Tsukune's character were to change as a result of trying to control all his Vampire energy, I would guess that was only because he hasn't really controlled it perfectly and let some of the bloodlust filter into his own personality. I would imagine that if Tsukune gains full control, his own personality would remain the same. He would be more disciplined in the art of combat thanks to Moka, and I also want to emphasize that Tsukune has never been hesitant. Even before gaining his Vampire blood, Tsukune never hesitated to jump right in the middle of a battle to protect his friends. He'd done it against the student police (which I believe was the first time Tsukune had been injected with Vampire Blood), he'd done it against Hokuto, and many other times as well. Tsukune never backed down from a fight.

Well, what I had meant in my last post is what Inner Moka has considered Tsukune's weakness - that Tsukune has no will and killing intent (Rosario + Vampire Season II, Chapter 18, page 5), simply speaking, unlike Inner Moka, Tsukune still doesn't possess the mentality of a warrior - that sometimes you have to be ready to take another life to protect what is important to you.

I doubt Tsukune currently possesses something like that, and merging with the vampire aspect of his being, could help Tsukune in obtaining the mentality of a warrior, which is something that he would need if he want's to win against a vampire. I mean judging from what we learned about vampires in chapter 30, they usually fight to the death and Tsukune must be able to do something like that as well, if he hopes that he will be able to beat a vampire in the future.

Apart from that, I agree with what you said Yoko Takeo.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

It never was. Haruhi was overrated and also same goes for K-on. But I would be also lying if the Rosario animes were good...

I will admit that it was overrated, but I loved how the character interacted, especially Kyon and Haruhi. But what's also good is how the second season is linked to the first in subtle ways.

Originally Posted by kenjiharima

^
Another reason to note Tsukune to be brave, yet weak at first. The development of his powers are not abrupt and it was hard earned and still he's learning up to now to control his gained powers.


And yes we need a NORMAL mirror on R+V to see the vamps reflection. Makes me wonder if Tsukune vamps/ghoul out he loses his reflection, wish Ikeda would answer those....

He needs to learn how to fight more than use his powers I think. When the shit hits the fan I am sure he'll have power but he won't know how to fight and will get his ass kicked, like with what happened with Hokuto last season.

Mirror? Haven't we seen Moka use one in her room?

[Chris38]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

I will admit that it was overrated, but I loved how the character interacted, especially Kyon and Haruhi. But what's also good is how the second season is linked to the first in subtle ways.

He needs to learn how to fight more than use his powers I think. When the shit hits the fan I am sure he'll have power but he won't know how to fight and will get his ass kicked, like with what happened with Hokuto last season.

Mirror? Haven't we seen Moka use one in her room?

I think that Tsukune learning how to fight and how to use his power's are related and by training with Inner Moka he learns how to do both things at the same time, since I doubt Tsukune can hold back against Inner Moka when he trains with her, so he learns martial arts and at the same time is becoming more proficient with his vampire abilities.

So I doubt that we will be having a repeat of the situation with Hokuto, where Tsukune was still an amateur in martial art's. Compared to that time I think that Tsukune has gotten much better, though we still don't know his current power level, which is way I hope we will see something in the current arc, which could show us how much progress Tsukune has made in his training.

Another thing that I wonder about is how Tsukune's family are going to accept Tsukune's ayashi side, as well as Tsukune going to a school for monster's (well, technically they where the ones that forced Tsukune to go there, but I doubt they are going to take something like that easily).

While I have no doubt that they are going to accept what Tsukune has become, the whole revelation of Tsukune's secret's could lead to some interesting development's, especially since I doubt Tsukune's secret is going to be revealed peacefully ... I suspect that sooner or later Tsukune's family is going to be involved in the fight with Fairy Tale as well.

So far the scenarios that comes to my mind is that for some reason Tsukune and the girls visit Tskune's parent's house and while they are there Fairy Tale attacks them, leaving them with no choice but to reveal their youkai forms, with Tsukune's parent's being witnesses to the whole battle.

Another one is that Fairy Tale kidnap Tsukune's family when Tsukune and his friends become a major obstacle for them, leaving Tsukune and the rest of his group with no choice but to mount a rescue mission.

Of course their could be something else happening, which would reveal Tsukune's secret to his family, but those are the possible scenarios that came to my mind at the moment, because I have no doubt that before this manga ends Tsukune's family is going to be aware of youkai's existence and that their only son is partially ayashi himself.

[DragoZERO]

If they had more time, it would have been cool if he learned some while in China. Maybe he'll get a lesson in the memory world or something.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Chris38

Well, that might be a possibility but unless we learn more about his current condition, since if you don't remember Yoko Takeo in his last appearance Hokuto is pinned to a wheelchair ( Rosario + Vampire Season II, Chapter 28 page 3) and it could be caused by him using his youkai abilities too much. So it might mean that Hokuto couldn't control his power's effectively as well or he has used a higher amount of power then he was allowed to, since some kind of side-effects have apparently appeared which caused him to use a wheelchair to move around.

I do remember that actually, and I was a bit confused because it didn't happen until long after the fight. Right after the fight, Hokuto was standing upright on his own without a problem. That's why I was wondering why Hokuto was in a wheelchair. Perhaps he hasn't fed on Kiria's blood for too long? Or perhaps his body broke the way Tsukune's would if he takes any more blood from Moka? After all, for Hokuto to experience a full body transformation like he did in the fight, that means the amount of blood he took from Kiria was the limit his body could take, and Kiria then gave him more after the fight. After a while, his body literally broke. That could be a possibility, and it would mean Tsukune doesn't have to worry as long as Moka doesn't give him more blood.

Originally Posted by Chris38

That's true, but we won't know for sure how strong Kiria is until we finally see him fighting seriously with someone and I doubt he will appear in the current arc, so we might have to wait a little longer, before we learn what Kiria's true potential is.

I agree, but so far, I've gotten the impression that Kiria is hiding quite a lot about his strength and his character. His origins are especially mysterious. His vampire-like fangs and his eyes are the only things we can go on for now.

Originally Posted by Chris38

I agree with you Yoko Takeo and it could be possible that Tsukune's seal works in that way. It could also be the reason why Tsukune's training has started so late. Maybe the headmaster wanted to weaken Tsukune's seal at first, before making Tsukune learn how to control his youkai energy, because at first the seal was so strong that training Tsukune wouldn't be as effective as it currently is.

Yes, because at first, the seal locked away all of Tsukune's energy, so there was no way for him to train properly. It wasn't until after the second time Tsukune nearly transformed that he could train. He was able to turn back more easily probably because the seal was still on him, so it wasn't letting all his energy out, so much that he lost control completely.

Originally Posted by Chris38

Though, judging from how the situation in the recent chapter's is shaping up I doubt Tsukune will be able to keep that pattern for long, since with the vampires joining the fray I doubt Tsukune is going to stand a chance against a vampire, without using the full extent of his youkai abilities. Of course so far he still isn't ready for that yet, which suggests we might see some more developments regarding Tsukune's abilities.

Too true. Tsukune's going to have to shape up faster than expected if he wants to fight on even footing as a Vampire. But I also think he's well on the way as it is. I remember Moka saying that baby phoenix shouldn't have been a problem for Tsukune. If that's the case, I'm even willing to think that Tsukune could make it on his own. Especially since he was able to understand Moka's lessons on sensing Youki so quickly.

That and Moka secretly liked that Tsukune was on top that time (THE DREAM WAS REAL GUYS)

Originally Posted by Chris38

Well, what I had meant in my last post is what Inner Moka has considered Tsukune's weakness - that Tsukune has no will and killing intent (Rosario + Vampire Season II, Chapter 18, page 5), simply speaking, unlike Inner Moka, Tsukune still doesn't possess the mentality of a warrior - that sometimes you have to be ready to take another life to protect what is important to you.

I doubt Tsukune currently possesses something like that, and merging with the vampire aspect of his being, could help Tsukune in obtaining the mentality of a warrior, which is something that he would need if he want's to win against a vampire. I mean judging from what we learned about vampires in chapter 30, they usually fight to the death and Tsukune must be able to do something like that as well, if he hopes that he will be able to beat a vampire in the future.

Also true. Tsukune may not be hesitant to fight, but he's not been raised as a killer the way other Vampires were. But at the same time, I don't think Moka would want him to become a killer like the others. Reason I say that is because she loves him for who he is. Changing him into someone who could kill might change his character entirely, which may turn him into someone different than the one Moka loves.

[Chris38]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

Spoiler for snip:

I do remember that actually, and I was a bit confused because it didn't happen until long after the fight. Right after the fight, Hokuto was standing upright on his own without a problem. That's why I was wondering why Hokuto was in a wheelchair. Perhaps he hasn't fed on Kiria's blood for too long? Or perhaps his body broke the way Tsukune's would if he takes any more blood from Moka? After all, for Hokuto to experience a full body transformation like he did in the fight, that means the amount of blood he took from Kiria was the limit his body could take, and Kiria then gave him more after the fight. After a while, his body literally broke. That could be a possibility, and it would mean Tsukune doesn't have to worry as long as Moka doesn't give him more blood.

I agree, but so far, I've gotten the impression that Kiria is hiding quite a lot about his strength and his character. His origins are especially mysterious. His vampire-like fangs and his eyes are the only things we can go on for now.

Yes, because at first, the seal locked away all of Tsukune's energy, so there was no way for him to train properly. It wasn't until after the second time Tsukune nearly transformed that he could train. He was able to turn back more easily probably because the seal was still on him, so it wasn't letting all his energy out, so much that he lost control completely.


Too true. Tsukune's going to have to shape up faster than expected if he wants to fight on even footing as a Vampire. But I also think he's well on the way as it is. I remember Moka saying that baby phoenix shouldn't have been a problem for Tsukune. If that's the case, I'm even willing to think that Tsukune could make it on his own. Especially since he was able to understand Moka's lessons on sensing Youki so quickly.

That and Moka secretly liked that Tsukune was on top that time (THE DREAM WAS REAL GUYS)


Also true. Tsukune may not be hesitant to fight, but he's not been raised as a killer the way other Vampires were. But at the same time, I don't think Moka would want him to become a killer like the others. Reason I say that is because she loves him for who he is. Changing him into someone who could kill might change his character entirely, which may turn him into someone different than the one Moka loves.

I agree with everything you said so far Yoko Takeo, and I kind of forgot to include Moka's feelings for Tsukune in all of this ... and you're right in saying that changing Tsukune's personality might have an effect on Moka's feelings. It's probably the reason why I'm so conflicted about all of this ... and I wonder how the author is going to resolve this. I mean he has to deal with the vampire aspect of Tsukune's being and at the same time not change Tsukune's current human personality too much, since it would seem a little unrealistic if Tsukune's personality change (if he get's one, of course ) didn't have any effect on Moka's feelings for him.

At the same time if the mangaka decides to fuse Tsukune's human personality with his vampire nature ... he is going to have to show that in result Tsukune is a little different then how he was before. Of course the author might have some other way of dealing with Tsukune's Ghoul aspect, but so far I couldn't find anything else that could work and wouldn't circumvent with the developments Tsukune has went through already.

Though thinking about it for a bit, at the moment we still don't know what is making Moka attracted foreword Tsukune, I mean obviously at the beginning it was his blood, but I think that currently Moka's feelings for Tsukune are deeper then that (especially in Inner Moka's case ), but I don't remember anything mentioned about Moka's feelings for Tsukune yet. It's obvious that she has feelings for him and one of the things she's attracted to is Tsukune's blood, but we don't know anything beyond that about Moka's feelings for Tsukune and what has made her fall in love with him.

The same can be said about Tsukune, since at the beginning it was pretty obvious that Tsukune has been attracted to Moka's beauty - and he still is, though I kind of understand why, since vampire girls are pretty attractive, especially if we compare them to normal human girls ... if you can get used to them sucking you're blood that is , but similarly to how things have went with Moka, currently it's pretty obvious that Tsukune's feelings for Moka have become much more deeper compared to the time when they met for the first time, but like in Moka's case we still don't know what caused Tsukune to fall in love with Moka, since it's pretty obvious that at first he was only infatuated with her looks ....

... Well maybe in both cases we are dealing with the first love syndrome, which is pretty hard to explain from an outside point of view, but it might be possible that this what had actually happened, when Tsukune and Moka "met". They have fallen in love with each other at first sight (well in Moka's case it might be actually first bite ), which has caused their relationship with each other to become pretty hard to explain ...

[Tsuyoshi]

All true, but regardless of why they love each other, the fact remains that they do. Moka (Outer Moka at any rate) has already confessed to Tsukune without batting an eye, and I've already explained that what Outer Moka feels, so does the Inner Moka. As you say, as well, it's quite obvious that Tsukune loves Moka more than anyone, although he can't exactly bring himself to say it, especially when four other girls are at war with each other for him I'm happy to keep it that way and not know why they love each other. After all, I'm not here to read a Shoujo

[Chris38]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

All true, but regardless of why they love each other, the fact remains that they do. Moka (Outer Moka at any rate) has already confessed to Tsukune without batting an eye, and I've already explained that what Outer Moka feels, so does the Inner Moka. As you say, as well, it's quite obvious that Tsukune loves Moka more than anyone, although he can't exactly bring himself to say it, especially when four other girls are at war with each other for him I'm happy to keep it that way and not know why they love each other. After all, I'm not here to read a Shoujo

Well that's true, will see how things go from here, right ?

I think that what I'm actually waiting for is chapter 31, where I think that, the incident between Akuha and Moka is finally going to be revealed (Unless the author decides to keep us in suspense a little bit longer ) , but even if my first prediction doesn't happen, I still think that Tsukune's , Mizore's and Tohou Fuhai's little journey into Moka's memory is going to end in chapter 31, since the author can't keep something like that for too long, considering how the situation is shaping up in the real world, with the Miu family and Akuha starting a confrontation with the Wong family and Tsukune along with the girls being right in the middle of it.

Unfortunately we still have to wait half of a month, until the next chapter is going to be released ... so we still have to be a little more patient.

[Magin]

Holy Walls of Text, Batman! Though I can't say I dislike the talking about Tsukune's growth

I'm just going to be patient and wait for Tsukune to show his development by either A) taking out some small fry or B) jump straight to Round 2 against Miyabi and kick his ass (something I'm sure all the Mizore fans are waiting for)

and you know what bugs me? We still don't know who the third Demon Lord is... it doesn't seem like it's Issa, though I suppose that possibility is still open

[Johnny]

The only thing that I think is important as far as Tsukune's growth goes. Is what's going to happen to him when that holy lock finally snaps...

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Magin

Holy Walls of Text, Batman! Though I can't say I dislike the talking about Tsukune's growth

I'm just going to be patient and wait for Tsukune to show his development by either A) taking out some small fry or B) jump straight to Round 2 against Miyabi and kick his ass (something I'm sure all the Mizore fans are waiting for)

and you know what bugs me? We still don't know who the third Demon Lord is... it doesn't seem like it's Issa, though I suppose that possibility is still open

Vampires pride themselves as the strongest, but I doubt he's one of the demon kings. So far as we've seen, the demon lords are all experts in seals and barriers, so perhaps they aren't just simply fighters. Vampires, on the other hand, are a noble warrior race, but it takes more than that to be a dark lord. There's good chances that they're masters in magic, a kind of magic that goes beyond those of witches.

[Magin]

Yes, there is the fact that vampires are among the strongest of youkai, but as we've seen, even vampires will fall to seals (something tells me that in order to overcome a seal, you have to be at least part human- both Tsukune and Hokuto have demonstrated this). The Demon Lords also seem to want to keep the peace between the two worlds...

and Johnny, where's your newest avy from?

[Chris38]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

Vampires pride themselves as the strongest, but I doubt he's one of the demon kings. So far as we've seen, the demon lords are all experts in seals and barriers, so perhaps they aren't just simply fighters. Vampires, on the other hand, are a noble warrior race, but it takes more than that to be a dark lord. There's good chances that they're masters in magic, a kind of magic that goes beyond those of witches.

Well it might be possible that vampires have more abilities then what was revealed about them so far, about what kind of abilities they are going to have depends largely on what the author gives them, so I wouldn't be surprised if it it's going to be revealed that vampires have some unique magical abilities as well.

Though I don't think that every vampire has them, since in my opinion their are some differences among vampires - I mean that there exist different bloodlines among the vampires, who have different special abilities, for example Kokoa, which has some kind of illusion technique similar to Kurumu's charm (Rosario Vampire Season II, chapter 17, page 15) compared to Moka, who didn't show knowledge about such a technique existing. Another example of this theory is Khaula, who is able to neutralize her pain for a short period of time and certainly Moka hadn't displayed that she is able to do something like that.

So it seems to point out, that while generally the vampires in the R+V universe appear to be the same, when we look deeper their abilities start to become more specialized and we see some differences among the abilities a individual vampire has got.

Simply saying I think that things might not be as simple as we thought, and while generally the vampire race appears to be the same, if we look see that there some differences among them - I think that the vampires in R+V universe are further decided into clans or rather bloodlines and each bloodline has some special kind of ability that other vampires don't have.

It's the only explanation that I could think off, to explain the differences of abilities between Khaula, Kokoa , Moka and probably Akuha as well - I mean obviously in the case of Khaula, Kokoa and Moka we can see that each have some abilities that the other sister's haven't displayed or known about ... which makes me think that each of Moka's siblings come from a different bloodline then her, which means that each of them might posses different kinds of abilities ... it could also be the reason why Moka is considered special among her siblings (Rosario + Vampire Season II, Chapter 14, page 6) - it's probably because Moka and Akasha as well, come from a pretty rare and powerful bloodline.

So I wouldn't be surprised if their existed a bloodline of vampires who have some kind of magical abilities as well, but it's probably something that's going to be revealed later in the story if my hypothesis is going to be proven in the manga of course.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Chris38

Well it might be possible that vampires have more abilities then what was revealed about them so far, about what kind of abilities they are going to have depends largely on what the author gives them, so I wouldn't be surprised if it it's going to be revealed that vampires have some unique magical abilities as well.

No doubt, each Vampire will have their own speciality, but I doubt anything like what the Dark Lords and witches have displayed. The field of magic belongs to them. Throughout the manga, Vampires have been portrayed as creatures who specialize in combat rather than magic spells and seals. If each Vampire will have different skills and specialities, they will be designed specifically for combat.

Originally Posted by Chris38

Though I don't think that every vampire has them, since in my opinion their are some differences among vampires - I mean that there exist different bloodlines among the vampires, who have different special abilities, for example Kokoa, which has some kind of illusion technique similar to Kurumu's charm (Rosario Vampire Season II, chapter 17, page 15) compared to Moka, who didn't show knowledge about such a technique existing. Another example of this theory is Khaula, who is able to neutralize her pain for a short period of time and certainly Moka hadn't displayed that she is able to do something like that.

1. Where exactly did you see Kokoa's illusion ability? I don't remember that. The ability to glamour humans is no news. That is a power they use to captivate a human prey. All Vampires have that ability, although it doesn't work as effectively as Kurumu, considering she's a Succubus, and it only affects one human at a time rather than a group of them all at once.

2. Khalua's ability to supress pain is, as I suggested, designed for combat. It helps her fight beyond what she would normally be capable of. Also, I always had the impression that her ability to supress pain was more to do with her character, her state of mind and her determination to kill her enemy, rather than an actual technique she uses.

Originally Posted by Chris38

So it seems to point out, that while generally the vampires in the R+V universe appear to be the same, when we look deeper their abilities start to become more specialized and we see some differences among the abilities a individual vampire has got.

Yes, but nothing within the field of magic that is unique to a particular Vampire.

Originally Posted by Chris38

Simply saying I think that things might not be as simple as we thought, and while generally the vampire race appears to be the same, if we look see that there some differences among them - I think that the vampires in R+V universe are further decided into clans or rather bloodlines and each bloodline has some special kind of ability that other vampires don't have.

There is some truth to this. Various bloodlines would have particular strengths that stand out. That could be a reason why Moka is special and the reason the Shuzen aims to get her on their side. However, I believe bloodlines have more to do with helping determine how strong a Vampire would be in battle rather than the abilities they possess. As you mentioned Kokoa and Khalua, while their abilities might not be exactly as you describe them, they are still different from each other despite the fact that they are from the same family. However, since they may have different mothers, that might have something to do with it.



On that note, a thought just came to my head as to who in the Shuuzen family is parented by who.

Issa and ??? --> Akuha
Issa and *** --> Khalua
Akasha and ### --> Moka
Issa and Akasha --> Kokoa

Might not exactly be correct but this might explain a few things. Akuha is said to be Issa's illegitimate daughter, which leads to believe that she has a different mother from her other sisters. Khalua's appearance says it all. If Issa was able to mate with someone and get Akuha, chances are that he mated with someone else to get Khalua. The same goes for Kokoa, her mother being Akasha this time. Before Kokoa, however, Akasha had Moka from someone else before Kokoa, but after Issa had Khalua.

[GrrDraxin]

Interesting, maybe somewhere we'll get to see a family tree of them to know for sure.

However, the thing with Akua may actually bring out a nastier side of Tsukune once he finds out why Moka's memories are sealed and why Akasha disappeared. He may even try to take on Akua... perhaps to some success if she's caught off guard with surprise at his level of strength even though he's "supposed" to be human.

And For Tsukune, I think his main training with Moka didn't have as much of an impact on his youki so much as Ruby's pre-training session did, because it was there that Tsukune learned the basics of manipulating his youki, and I think because he was holding the Belmont, meant that he was operating not only at full power as if the lock wasn't there, but also learning to actively redirect his youki away from the lock itself using the shocker chain as a substitute for the lock during that bout of training. If you recall, not only has he redirecting his youki into an asymmetrical pattern around his body, he was also compressing it to keep it from hitting the lock/shock chain while he was in the heat of battle. So being that his lock is on his right arm, he was shooting off his youki through his left side instead through the whip. But if he needs to use his youki through his right hand like when he throws a punch, he can compress the energy and shunt it past the lock without even touching it to release his strength through his right hand.

I believe Moka's training after that was to drill that technique into Tsukune and make it second nature so he can learn to bring out more and more of his power without the lock interfering, and prolonging it's useful life before it's completely broken. Like the skills required to skateboard or ride a bicycle.... you can't try any fancy stunts until you've mastered your balance and confidence riding them.

[HayashiTakara]

Once Tsukune perfects his control of the youki he won't need the lock anymore.

[Tempest35]

We don't even know if the lock is even viable at this point. He's gone Ghoul even with the lock on so either he was unleashing enough energy to override the lock, or the lock was just crappy to begin with.