Toradora! - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[kk2extreme]

the whole ya-chan and ruuji scenes are supposed to be sad, but i dont feel that sad because of clannad

[SageGaiGar]

Originally Posted by weksa

Something to add on to the talk about Ami, though it's fairly obvious (points 1+2):

(1)
R: "Besides, you'll disappoint everyone if you leave. Everyone adores you..."
A: "...Actually, I'd be happy if it wasn't everyone."

Sure it's interesting to ponder her feelings about Ryuuji (and Taiga), but that acknowledgment also shows the striking contrast between when she first arrived and now. Previously, she put on that facade to please everyone. Now she doesn't even care about everyone anymore, e.g. she refuses to model for the school uniform pamphlet because she no longer cares about pleasing everyone.

(2) Segueing into this next point, there's also the contrast between how she reacted to modeling for the school uniform pamphlet vs. "modeling" for Taiga's chocolates. She does it for Taiga. Like some of the previous comments, this makes me lean toward thinking that [the quote in #1] is not so much about Ami's romantic feelings for Ryuuji (or perhaps lack thereof) as it is realizing how special Ryuuji and Taiga are to her.

(3)
A: "I watched Taiga get hurt and understood her pain. I thought that, since I understood her, I'd save her if no one else did, or something like that. Now I realize that everything would sort itself out if I left."

Questions:
(a) What is Ami's understanding of Taiga's pain, specifically?
(b) Is this pain something that Ami has similarly experienced, or is it just that Ami recognizes it with her amazing perceptive abilities?
(c) What's the "everything" that would sort itself out, the relationship mess, right?
(d) And how would Ami's leaving solve that? Or actually, the better question would be, what is it that would sort everything out? She realizes she doesn't need to help Taiga because some factor will do it... what is it? That there's no way in heck the situation will remain the way it is? That an explosion is bound to occur, as per the one at the end of this episode?

For (a):
At the core, I think it's the pain of being lonely. Other element perhaps being in love or just having an affection for someone who's clueless to it. More to the point, she didn't seem to be the kind of person with many friends before this. She likely 'knew' a lot of people but I doubt she was actually friends with anyone before going to the new school.
(b) She recognizes where her similiarities are with Taiga.
(c) Yeah, she felt that she's been more of a bother than a help, 'getting in their way'. Her efforts to try and assist backfiring on a few occasions. Classic example of interference not always working out.
(d) Well leaving the situation would 'let it go its natural course'. But not really, she's already gotten herself too involved.

Her efforts have had an effect, even if she wishes to deny or ignore it.

And that explosion has happened, with the aftermath coming up in the next episodes.

[Tyabann]

I think Ami really wanted to just be an observer and a manipulator, but got too emotionally involved in it herself.

Magnificent Bastard failure.

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Magnificent Bastard failure.

Oh, that was pure gold. You, sir, win the internets.

[typhonsentra]

Originally Posted by kk2extreme

the whole ya-chan and ruuji scenes are supposed to be sad, but i dont feel that sad because of clannad

I find Toradora a lot more relatable.

[SageGaiGar]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

I think Ami really wanted to just be an observer and a manipulator, but got too emotionally involved in it herself.

Magnificent Bastard failure.

Just as *NOT planned XD

[k'2]

Originally Posted by SageGaiGar

Just as *NOT planned XD

instead of being the hunter it was the prey .......

and she can't do anything she's just used to denial

[fish eric]

when a good show like this ends does anyone else get that feeling like there is a big hole inside them?

[Maciste]

Originally Posted by fish eric

when a good show like this ends does anyone else get that feeling like there is a big hole inside them?

Yes, definitely.
There are not many anime series I really like/become attached to. So, when I finally found one with the "Oh boy, can't wait for next week's ep!"-kind of feeling, it saddens me, once i realize it'll end soon (around the time, when only 2-3 eps are left).
Same here, after such a splendid 23rd episode...

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by Janifuu

I don't know why people are complaining about the animation/motion quality of this episode, I thought it helped pertain the dramatic effects alluded from the important scenes. Do you expect them to be stiffies at a time like this?

i agree, i had no complaints with the animation, i'm sure it couldve been better, but i liked how this episode looked and felt.

[Megacrash Gr]

Originally Posted by fish eric

when a good show like this ends does anyone else get that feeling like there is a big hole inside them?

me, definitly gonna be one of my fav

good episode, heart warming moment, when Taiga and Ryuuji took a job of Ya-chan.

[Fran~]

Haruta pwns....

the rest doesn't matters anymore, i DEMAND "Haruta's Chronicles or how to be a happy clueless person"

Minori... you're such a great woman... no... you're such a great human being... that's the way to do things... with the true, no matters what will happen... always saying the true.

[crystalalien87]

man the argument at that end made me think Taiga was having a exorcism done or something lol...but good episode none the less...

[Traece]

Originally Posted by fish eric

when a good show like this ends does anyone else get that feeling like there is a big hole inside them?

Yeah, that happened when Hayate no Gotoku ended. But it's coming back now so I'm excited.

Originally Posted by crystalalien87

man the argument at that end made me think Taiga was having a exorcism done or something lol...but good episode none the less...

The power of Christ compells you?

To the whole Ami conversation: Ami has feelings for Ryuuji, this couldn't be made more obvious. Though she also cares about Taiga, she couldn't made it even a little more obvious that she's more than caring for Ryuuji. She's practically thrown herself at him in the past, and although she may have been toying more than anything, I doubt she would've done that to Ryuuji in his own home after he helped her if she didn't like him at least a little. Ami and Ryuuji have had a lot of somewhat romantic scenes together, and I'm surprised people actually have doubts about Ami liking him.

Lastly, complaints about the art quality based off of basically one scene? Can you people get more needy? Watch the episode again and maybe study some dynamics and expression for once. All the violence in Toradora! are done in the same art style as the one in this episode to my knowledge.

[typhonsentra]

I also want to say that I really liked the way they ended Ami's feelings for him, how she accepts that it can't happen and is ready to try and move on. I've always been a sucker for bittersweet plotlines like that.

[fish eric]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

I also want to say that I really liked the way they ended Ami's feelings for him, how she accepts that it can't happen and is ready to try and move on. I've always been a sucker for bittersweet plotlines like that.

i liked that too. in this anime they really did a good job obfuscating her feelings. as far as the anime is considered on its own. i think Ami has/had some romantic feelings towards Ryuji. In the novel... I don't think so.


when i gave my mini review earlier i thought that this episode had the best animation since the christmas party episodes. im not saying the people who disagree are wrong. im trying to say it just goes to show how different people are.

[typhonsentra]

I don't think her feelings are anime original. As a matter of fact there are several things in the novels that were cut in the anime that'd make it very hard for me to believe she really was doing the things she was doing for Taiga's benefit.

Spoiler:

Namely the batting cage scenes and the Christmas Party. She didn't seem to care about Taiga's feelings there she even says something to the effect of that at the party when Ryuuji wonders aloud why Taiga would want to be along on Christmas Eve.

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by fish eric

i liked that too. in this anime they really did a good job obfuscating her feelings. as far as the anime is considered on its own. i think Ami has/had some romantic feelings towards Ryuji. In the novel... I don't think so.


when i gave my mini review earlier i thought that this episode had the best animation since the christmas party episodes. im not saying the people who disagree are wrong. im trying to say it just goes to show how different people are.

even so...it's so sad, i feel so bad for ami ;_; that poor girl...and yeah i liked the animation, i guess certain people were referring to the whole when taiga was running away and fumbling and stuff, it does look "different" but it's supposed to be like that to give off an effect.

Anyway, thought the episode was great...anyone look at the preview? ya-chan looks frigging scary haha, something bad happened? What was that little red packet (with the words on it...what does it say)?

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by crystalalien87

man the argument at that end made me think Taiga was having a exorcism done or something lol...but good episode none the less...

aye, exorcism is a pretty good metaphor --- at this point, the only two left in the room being "dishonest" is Taiga and Ryuuji. The other 3 have staked their own positions on the subject.

The episode managed to jump through the necessary turnpoints but wow it was skidding through the curves. So fast that for me, it hurt the organic feel of the development. I ended up singling this episode out for rating "punishment" though I rather enjoyed many of the moments in it. There were probably 2 or even 3 good episodes that happened offscreen here but its off to the novels to find out all the "in-betweens". For example, the untold "Haruta lands a girl" subplot

[Joe_fh]

Well this was onther excellent episode.I seriously don't know where this is going.Ami's character is really amasingly developed.As weksa said she went from someone who cares only fo what others think of her to someone who only cares for her friends.She also harbours very strong feelings but still manages to stay in cotrol.On the other hand Minori can't do the same,yet she somehow on lets out the feelings as a "friend" not a lover.Great character development here as well.Taiga is well confused.She wants Minori to be happy yet she still likes Riuji and she can't even understand why.IMO that is the reason she is runing away.She too went a long way from what she was in the beginning.These girls' character development is one of the best i've seen.
The animation was perfect in the sense of showing the feelings of te characters.It might have looked a bit odd at some point but IMO it was great.
Truly i'll miss the show when it ends because it is really gerat.
on a side note IMO Clannad now i really sad,it can't compare much to Toradora! because they have quite a few differences.Still they are both great shows.