AnimeSuki Forums

aniforever · 2004-12-22, 04:12

i have no idea about the pics but something doesn't seem right. iono i'll go rewatch the whole anime over again and see what i miss.

one question i have though concerning the last ep. the last text was something like so we fall in love once again iono something like that but what i'm wondering is do you guys hear two voices saying that line too? iono it seems like two people, chikane and himeko, is both saying that last line. i need to d/l SS's version of KnM since i need to have a better and a more accurate dialogue of what is being said. i'm not saying SS is better i juse want to compare.

do you guys think that when himeko saw that girl and the shell she remembered some stuff memory or some lost feelings. if both of them are saying that last line then most likely that other girl is chikane and she too remember himeko. hehe i don't know if the creators of KnM is really smart or we are just thinking way to deep into the story. either way rewatching KnM and hope to find more clues.

Mentar · 2004-12-22, 04:22

I think that the ending was relatively clear. Himeko was always looking out for the "mystery lover" for who she rejected Souma. And she ultimately found her. The final line is clearly spoken by both Chikane and Himeko's seiyuus, so it's a final confirmation "yup, we didn't just find each other again via matching shell, we also reaffirmed our feelings".

dreamless · 2004-12-22, 04:29

Come to think about it, it feels more and more like Saikano.

I don't think they have recovered their memories, because it's "we fall in love again".

Aces&8s · 2004-12-22, 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Srin Tuar

I think went to far out of the way the give Souma a gentle landing. If youre going to give the guy the metophorical shaft, you might as well stick it to him proper. The whole basis for the love interest tension was the triangle there, and they unwound it far to delicately. (not even one proper battle between Chikane and Souma- I feel cheated - he had just turned evil too, why waste that?)

Because allowing Souma to sacrifice himself would have martyred him, and we wouldn't have had Himeko rejecting him later for added effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Srin Tuar

That part wasnt wrong: the whole "I hurt you for your sake" was chunky soup of BS. She hurt her because she wanted her to ber her lover.

Except that she did hurt Himeko for Himeko's sake and donned the Sun Miko's robes before she started acting evil. It was all part of her plan to take Himeko's spot as sacrifice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Srin Tuar

Second, I have nothing against Yuri.
Magical "all the bad things are erased and forgotten" stories are just not my favorite.

Well it sounds like it. Seriously guys, were those red threads binding the pair not bright enough from the beginning. And, yeah, I dislike that type of ending as well. I guess that's what you get when the gods come back from vacation and decide to clean up.

What I did like about the end is that it leaves Chikane and Himeko's relationship without any ambiguity. Lovely.

Mentar · 2004-12-22, 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamless

Come to think about it, it feels more and more like Saikano.

I don't think they have recovered their memories, because it's "we fall in love again".

They must have recovered their memories in the end, otherwise they wouldn't have known that they fell in love before

dreamless · 2004-12-22, 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mentar

They must have recovered their memories in the end, otherwise they wouldn't have known that they fell in love before

if they have recovered their memories, they won't be falling in love again, they'd know that they are always in love, not "fall in love again". So they must not have recovered their memories, and the "we fall in love again" must be an off-screen narration, else it doesn't make any sense. unless you think they consciously stopped loving each other for some time, which doesn't make any sense neither

Mentar · 2004-12-22, 07:08

Well, they've been separated for quite a while *cough*

I guess we're better off not digging into this part too much. I'd say that the line was supposed to say "we're together and it's all good". After these evil evil credits. I really thought for a second that they'd go for the "forever longing" kind of ending - which would have been more artistical, but MUCH less satisfying.

dreamless · 2004-12-22, 07:19

well, mere physical separation cannot stop the love

For the last part, so far the only logical explanation I can gather would be that Himeko is in her mid 30's and Chikane around 20. So it's 16th birthday -> world destroyed -> Chikane killed by Ama no Murakumo for world restoration -> world restored -> birth of Chikane reincarnation -> 17th birthday Himeko refusing Souma -> about 20 years later Himeko meets Chikane reincarnation.

Mentar · 2004-12-22, 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamless

well, mere physical separation cannot stop the love

But not being able to remember your lover can

- keep the Himeko-Mako scene in mind.

Well, your version would work out alright, I guess.

Nemesis2124 · 2004-12-22, 08:48

Perhaps my memory is a little foggy, but when the two reunite in the first episode there certainly isn't the dramatic teary eye response we see at the end. Seems to say to me that she has at least some conscious recollection of those memories.

dreamless · 2004-12-22, 08:51

huh? reunite in the first episode?

they have no memories, but they still remember their feelings, that's why they are teary eyed. That's actually a common theme in those CLAMP-ish love stories. Memories can be erased, but feelings can't.

Nemesis2124 · 2004-12-22, 08:59

Well, they did have at least one incarnation before that...so yes, reunite.

But, just to kill my own point; I guess the first incarnations we see didn't make nearly as much progress in terms of feelings.

dreamless · 2004-12-22, 10:22

well, I think it's because this time Himeko is not reincarnated, she just has Chikane's memory erased. There's no telling how long have passed between the previous and current Himeko incarnations, and they are incarnations of completely different generations of mikos.

The Yellow Dwarf · 2004-12-22, 13:48

I nearly choked on my soda when Chikane stopped from dying because Himeko told her not to.... and they went on for half an episode...But of course, I should have known that it's the "falling on my head and showing my underwear" part of the first ep that they were going to repeat. XD

I think the one good explanation is that Himeko is in her late 30's when she meets the new Chikane (although Himeko looks way too young to be anything past 20), but two things made the reunion kind of bland: 1. After almost two decades, Himeko still dresses like a country bumpkin; 2. The reunion lacks a sort of coincidental touch to it and too externalized, I can't help but think the new Chikane's reaction would be "who the heck is this middle-aged obasan and why is she hugging me?

All in all, the ending tried to pack way to much material and sort of falls the way of most "mystery anime," i.e. the answers to all the questions are really pretty ordinary and uninteresting. And for some reason, the scriptwriters and producers just can't seem to let loose and throw a good punch, which makes the story end up kind of blocky and stiff, but that's most anime.

neovu79 · 2004-12-22, 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamless

well, I think it's because this time Himeko is not reincarnated, she just has Chikane's memory erased. There's no telling how long have passed between the previous and current Himeko incarnations, and they are incarnations of completely different generations of mikos.

But what doesn't make sense is why Chikane was not older than Himeko when Himeko was reincarnated after Chikane killed her before. If what you say is true, Chikane would have not been reincarnated and would have had to wait for Himeko.

Nemesis2124 · 2004-12-22, 14:27

Well, it's entirely possible that we're actually seeing the next reincarnation of Himeko in the end segment.

FlyByNite · 2004-12-22, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis2124

Well, it's entirely possible that we're actually seeing the next reincarnation of Himeko in the end segment.

Yea, that's a possibility. The voice-over while showing the oroji and the town says that 'time moves very slowly here' so it's possible that the world hadn't advanced very much or that it stays pretty much the same. So that last scene is just the next version of the Chikane-Himeko meeting at the flower patch and begins the cycle for the battle for the planet again?

Although I still like the 30's version of Himeko meeting a 16 year old Chikane scenario ...

redadmiral · 2004-12-22, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Yellow Dwarf

I nearly choked on my soda when Chikane stopped from dying because Himeko told her not to.... and they went on for half an episode...

The interpretation I got from the first part of the episode was that, pretty much from the moment Himeko cut Chikane, both they and Souma are outside of 'normal' time, and thus don't have to worry about little things like bleeding to death. It seemed to me that the 'important' thing is that the sacrifice is carried out, not the precise time sthat her death ocurrs. So as soon as Chikane is fatally wounded, 'good' is considered to have won. The sacrifice has been made, the orochi are defeated (in the sense that they lose their mecha, and sit passively waiting to be destroyed), the illusion of the temple has crumbled away - all that's left is for the gods to do their thing.

This would be why the illusion of the temple fades to that weird golden background thing as soon as Chikane falls to her knees, and before she gives Himeko her 'you'll be fine without me' speech and then seems ready to die. Also, when we see Chikane's wound, the blood flow seems to have stopped, as has the trickle coming from her mouth - Himeko is able to kiss her without having to spit blood out of her mouth afterwards.

And in the second half, of course, she doesn't appear to be wounded at all, nor does her voice sound like that of someone on the verge of death.

So I would guess that when Chikane closes her eyes and lies back, it's not that she's about to die, but rather that she considers herself ready for the end; she's said all she has to say, and the gods can now take her away, finish the orochi, and press the reset button. Himeko saying 'Wait!' forestalls this.

As to the epilogue, I'd say that everyone's interpretations are equally valid. These are the gods after all. They can un-destroy the entire world, and reverse time. What's to say they can't move one little soul about the continuum a bit? Especially one who you might say they have a debt of gratitude to.

H3avyM3tal · 2004-12-22, 18:58

Hey, atleast they got together a the end. Thats all I cared about really. I loved the love stoy here, and the action was grea too. All in all, I'm dissapointed we only got 12 eps...

dreamless · 2004-12-22, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by neovu79

But what doesn't make sense is why Chikane was not older than Himeko when Himeko was reincarnated after Chikane killed her before. If what you say is true, Chikane would have not been reincarnated and would have had to wait for Himeko.

Hmm... I'm not even sure what you are trying to say, but anyway last time the Orochi was sealed, the previous Chikane killed previous Himeko and world is restored. Whether last Chikane commited suicide or eventually died of old age was not too clear. Then an indefinite amount of time has passed while Orochi is sealed, could be a couple hundred years or a couple thousand years, and Himeko and Chikane's souls may have reincarnated as non-mikos a few times in the world or maybe they straight reincarnated as the current Himeko and Chikane, as I said, reincarnation can happen across time, there's no law saying that a soul leaving a dead person must reincarnate immediately as another person. And the mikos are not immortals, they age and die like normal people. The current Himeko and Chikane are both reincarnations of the previous mikos who are long dead before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by H3avyM3tal

Hey, atleast they got together a the end. Thats all I cared about really. I loved the love stoy here, and the action was grea too. All in all, I'm dissapointed we only got 12 eps...

If that's all you care, then you may well skip ep2-11 and watch ep1 and ep12. However I don't see why you are dissappointed that it's only 12 episodes, if all you care is an ending where they got together, then you shouldn't care whether it's 2 episodes or 12 episodes or 120 episodes...

2004-12-22, 08:59	Link #1192
Nemesis2124 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003	Well, they did have at least one incarnation before that...so yes, reunite. But, just to kill my own point; I guess the first incarnations we see didn't make nearly as much progress in terms of feelings. Last edited by Nemesis2124; 2004-12-22 at 09:22.

2004-12-22, 04:12	Link #1181
aniforever Member Join Date: Dec 2003	i have no idea about the pics but something doesn't seem right. iono i'll go rewatch the whole anime over again and see what i miss. one question i have though concerning the last ep. the last text was something like so we fall in love once again iono something like that but what i'm wondering is do you guys hear two voices saying that line too? iono it seems like two people, chikane and himeko, is both saying that last line. i need to d/l SS's version of KnM since i need to have a better and a more accurate dialogue of what is being said. i'm not saying SS is better i juse want to compare. do you guys think that when himeko saw that girl and the shell she remembered some stuff memory or some lost feelings. if both of them are saying that last line then most likely that other girl is chikane and she too remember himeko. hehe i don't know if the creators of KnM is really smart or we are just thinking way to deep into the story. either way rewatching KnM and hope to find more clues.

2004-12-22, 04:22	Link #1182
Mentar Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg Age: 54	I think that the ending was relatively clear. Himeko was always looking out for the "mystery lover" for who she rejected Souma. And she ultimately found her. The final line is clearly spoken by both Chikane and Himeko's seiyuus, so it's a final confirmation "yup, we didn't just find each other again via matching shell, we also reaffirmed our feelings".

2004-12-22, 04:29	Link #1183
dreamless /Ultimate Magic Attack!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Time Warp/Future	Come to think about it, it feels more and more like Saikano. I don't think they have recovered their memories, because it's "we fall in love again".

2004-12-22, 07:08	Link #1187
Mentar Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg Age: 54	Well, they've been separated for quite a while cough I guess we're better off not digging into this part too much. I'd say that the line was supposed to say "we're together and it's all good". After these evil evil credits. I really thought for a second that they'd go for the "forever longing" kind of ending - which would have been more artistical, but MUCH less satisfying.

2004-12-22, 07:19	Link #1188
dreamless /Ultimate Magic Attack!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Time Warp/Future	well, mere physical separation cannot stop the love For the last part, so far the only logical explanation I can gather would be that Himeko is in her mid 30's and Chikane around 20. So it's 16th birthday -> world destroyed -> Chikane killed by Ama no Murakumo for world restoration -> world restored -> birth of Chikane reincarnation -> 17th birthday Himeko refusing Souma -> about 20 years later Himeko meets Chikane reincarnation.

2004-12-22, 08:48	Link #1190
Nemesis2124 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003	Perhaps my memory is a little foggy, but when the two reunite in the first episode there certainly isn't the dramatic teary eye response we see at the end. Seems to say to me that she has at least some conscious recollection of those memories.

2004-12-22, 08:51	Link #1191
dreamless /Ultimate Magic Attack!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Time Warp/Future	huh? reunite in the first episode? they have no memories, but they still remember their feelings, that's why they are teary eyed. That's actually a common theme in those CLAMP-ish love stories. Memories can be erased, but feelings can't.

2004-12-22, 10:22	Link #1193
dreamless /Ultimate Magic Attack!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Time Warp/Future	well, I think it's because this time Himeko is not reincarnated, she just has Chikane's memory erased. There's no telling how long have passed between the previous and current Himeko incarnations, and they are incarnations of completely different generations of mikos.

2004-12-22, 13:48	Link #1194
The Yellow Dwarf Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004	I nearly choked on my soda when Chikane stopped from dying because Himeko told her not to.... and they went on for half an episode...But of course, I should have known that it's the "falling on my head and showing my underwear" part of the first ep that they were going to repeat. XD I think the one good explanation is that Himeko is in her late 30's when she meets the new Chikane (although Himeko looks way too young to be anything past 20), but two things made the reunion kind of bland: 1. After almost two decades, Himeko still dresses like a country bumpkin; 2. The reunion lacks a sort of coincidental touch to it and too externalized, I can't help but think the new Chikane's reaction would be "who the heck is this middle-aged obasan and why is she hugging me? All in all, the ending tried to pack way to much material and sort of falls the way of most "mystery anime," i.e. the answers to all the questions are really pretty ordinary and uninteresting. And for some reason, the scriptwriters and producers just can't seem to let loose and throw a good punch, which makes the story end up kind of blocky and stiff, but that's most anime.

2004-12-22, 14:27	Link #1196
Nemesis2124 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003	Well, it's entirely possible that we're actually seeing the next reincarnation of Himeko in the end segment.

2004-12-22, 18:58	Link #1199
H3avyM3tal Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004	Hey, atleast they got together a the end. Thats all I cared about really. I loved the love stoy here, and the action was grea too. All in all, I'm dissapointed we only got 12 eps...