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Old 2012-08-06, 06:30   Link #2601
zzhk
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By authority I mean the actual author or authoring organization. Besides, retcon is about the authoring entity contradicting their previous work.

The oldest written source of a myth is still an interpretation of some earlier oral source, and hence cannot be taken as the will of the original author.

As a fictional series, you can complain about the author taking liberties with the actual recorded myths, but talking about canonicity of fiction is just plain silly.
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Old 2012-08-06, 06:41   Link #2602
Avrorrange
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzhk View Post
By authority I mean the actual author or authoring organization. Besides, retcon is about the authoring entity contradicting their previous work.

The oldest written source of a myth is still an interpretation of some earlier oral source, and hence cannot be taken as the will of the original author.

As a fictional series, you can complain about the author taking liberties with the actual recorded myths, but talking about canonicity of fiction is just plain silly.
An interpretation, artistic liberties, fan-fiction or whatever you call it. It does not change that the author is basing his tale on what we know is the earliest/actual recorded myths ,and he is deliberately altering them in an official literature.Therefore ,he is retconing the original story, which simply meant changing established information in a story. As for talking about the 'canonicity of fiction is just plain silly', you obviously have not met star wars fans--they'd kill you for saying that.Although ,I do agree.
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Old 2012-08-06, 06:50   Link #2603
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I should be more specific, the canonicity of a separate fictional work is a non-issue. It's not like Campione's author intends people to take his story as the canonical continuation of the original myths.

His series is just a separate work of fiction inspired by myths in the real world.

Anyway, there's no real argument here, I just think darthfanta's use of the term "retcon" is just too broad for the taste of some of us in this thread.
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Old 2012-08-06, 08:37   Link #2604
Kleeyook
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Well, I don't mind about the alteration of some myths in this series.

I seriously doubt how the tale of something that used to happen ten of thousands years ago are recorded. There's no script or syllables available during that time. The tale can only be passed down generation after generation by oral.

However, I'd be mad if the Japanese thinking it's cool to change the gender of historical figures in series like Ikki Tousen, Oda Nobuna and Samurai Girls so they can masturbate. In fact, I am mad right now.

I wonder how those departed people would feel seeing they appear in modern media like that, despite having their portrait drawing and painting readily available for people to see.

Take a look at the moe Nobuna and the actual portrait, it's like another world. Even if it's a paradox world, having that will kill my mood.

BTW, I thought Arthurian Legend was a tale.
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Old 2012-08-06, 09:54   Link #2605
bludvein
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Do you all think Godou will manage to pick up another authority before his eventual fight with the Last King, or just keep improving the powers he already has?
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Old 2012-08-06, 10:11   Link #2606
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Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
Do you all think Godou will manage to pick up another authority before his eventual fight with the Last King, or just keep improving the powers he already has?
He's already "picked up" the Kunasagi sword, but he is not eager to "pick up" new authorities until he master his existing 10. He finds them troublesome enough as it is.
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Old 2012-08-06, 10:18   Link #2607
Avrorrange
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Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
Do you all think Godou will manage to pick up another authority before his eventual fight with the Last King, or just keep improving the powers he already has?

I am pretty sure he would not pick up a new authority. For one, he's already stated that he's not interested in becoming more powerful. Unless a god's clearly asking for it,he'd just beat a god and tell him to GTFO like his duel with Athena--that is if he actually wins. Also, as mentioned by a certain manga series(guess which one), the main character should not really have too many powers, and throughout the series, the author is obviously intent on following this practice, even though Godou killed several--each time making up an excuse of why he didn't get one. And about him mastering his existing ten--there's no evidence to proof that he hasn't already done so for the ten volumes after the two prequels. It's heavily hinted from the other campiones' authorities that the restrictions on the Persian Warlord would stay in place, there's no way to break them unless you use a certain unique method in volume ten which most probably could not be used again. The guys' had their authorities much longer than Godou, but the restrictions on their authorities pretty much remain the same.

Last edited by Avrorrange; 2012-08-06 at 19:30.
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Old 2012-08-06, 10:31   Link #2608
Richocet
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Then how come
Spoiler:
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Old 2012-08-06, 10:37   Link #2609
bludvein
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Well in vol4chap 6 Erica speculates about the reason Godou got so many powers when he killed Verethragna. Perhaps the closer Godou gets in personality to Verethragna(the one in the myth, not the heretic version) the less restrictions he will have? Or was his "compatibility" decided at the moment of death and can't change?

Spoiler for ..:
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Old 2012-08-06, 11:26   Link #2610
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
I am pretty sure he would not pick up a new authority. For one, he's already stated that he's not interested in becoming more powerful. Unless a god's clearly asking for it,he'd just beat a god and tell him to GTFO like his duel with Athena--that is if he actually wins.
Melqart.
The god really wants to fight Godou and their fight has yet to meet a conclusión and Melqart won't accept the kind of ending with Godou telling him to go off like that the god is a warrior it would hurt his pride if the end of a fair match doesn't meet a proper ending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
Well in vol4chap 6 Erica speculates about the reason Godou got so many powers when he killed Verethragna. Perhaps the closer Godou gets in personality to Verethragna(the one in the myth, not the heretic version) the less restrictions he will have? Or was his "compatibility" decided at the moment of death and can't change?

Spoiler for ..:
Checking CN translations, the way of talking Godou had with others reminds me of Heretic Verethragna, not the one without memories.
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Old 2012-08-06, 11:37   Link #2611
whsie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure-Priest View Post
He's already "picked up" the Kunasagi sword, but he is not eager to "pick up" new authorities until he master his existing 10. He finds them troublesome enough as it is.
Restrictions aside, Godou has already mastered the usage of the 10 abilities by the end of volume 6 (where the current translations are heading to).

It's because his current abilities weren't enough that the Kunasagi sword (for Godou) was introduced in volume 7.
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Old 2012-08-06, 12:50   Link #2612
Nekoppi
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Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
It is retconning. By saying that their stories were false, which they did every time they retcon things in D.C., the author is already retconning by altering the established facts. In which tale did you hear that Siegfried, King Arthur and Lancelot were gods?The author specifically, whenever he chose a hero as a god in this series, actually alter their tales to link them to an existing god or somehow establish that they were gods all along--something which wasn't actually acknowledge by authors. I am just saying that since these characters are heroes, not gods in the real world, then yes, heroes are also featured in this series.
The author's treatment of Siegfried, Arthur, and Lancelot hasn't been translated yet, so I can't comment on that. However, you were also complaining about Perseus? Well, let us see...

First, the author never claimed that he was treated as a god in his original myths. Rather, just that his myth is based on other gods, or myths of other gods were based on him. Now, I checked him up on wikipedia (I'm not all too familiar with what myth lead to the creation of what myth), and according to it, the founding myths of the twelve Olympians were based on Perseus's legends. In this series, that tends to be a sufficient connection for some link to be established between the two. That isn't retconning, just universe mechanics.

Second, Perseus IS half-god. Maybe the author just considers 50% god to be enough god to be a god? That is more or less an arbitrary divide right there.

EDIT: Actually, never mind. Just realized that the based on the spoilers posted in this thread, the author does indeed "retcon" the Arthurian legends. And kinda blatanly says so in the story (the whole part about the legend being a LIE fabricated to try to bring back the true king [slayer], but failed because it got changed too much from reality). So yeah, kinda hard to argue that he doesn't change the story of Arthurian legend, when he has an ex-god come out and say "yeah, we rewrote all that junk"
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Old 2012-08-06, 13:53   Link #2613
Wargumm1i
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Does Godou slay any other gods except Verethragna?
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Old 2012-08-06, 14:20   Link #2614
Athena
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Originally Posted by Wargumm1i View Post
Does Godou slay any other gods except Verethragna?
Define slay. "Beat up" or "Take the powers of"?
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Old 2012-08-06, 15:28   Link #2615
aigomorla
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Originally Posted by Wargumm1i View Post
Does Godou slay any other gods except Verethragna?
he doesnt slay anyone except the first god from what translations have progressed.

All the other gods he fought, he only beat the crap out of.
Not kill.

If anything Doni cleans up for him once, but Doni didnt upsurp that god's authority.
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Old 2012-08-06, 19:23   Link #2616
Avrorrange
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Originally Posted by Wargumm1i View Post
Does Godou slay any other gods except Verethragna?
He does, but he didn't get their power either because he ganged up on them
Spoiler for volume seven:
or because they haven't fully become heretic gods yet
Spoiler for volume ten:
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richocet View Post
Then how come
Spoiler:
The whole reason why he went berserk was because he was under
Spoiler for volume ten:
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Old 2012-08-06, 19:42   Link #2617
Richocet
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So you're saying
Spoiler:
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Old 2012-08-06, 19:44   Link #2618
Avrorrange
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Originally Posted by Richocet View Post
So you're saying
Spoiler:
Yes, I said it a number of times, that's how the berserk fiasco came along.
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Old 2012-08-06, 19:58   Link #2619
willx
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Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
Yes, I said it a number of times, that's how the berserk fiasco came along.
Actually, reading from Vol 6, it's implied that Erica believes Godou is imposing the restrictions upon himself based on his personality. The likely scenario is that he becomes more and more accepting of his powers and becomes able to use them slightly more freely..

I'm wondering in Vol 6 how the Kusanagi sword transferred him to the Netherworld when he didn't have it on him, nor was it in the Netherworld waiting for him..
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Old 2012-08-06, 20:00   Link #2620
Richocet
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Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
Yes, I said it a number of times, that's how the berserk fiasco came along.
So
Spoiler:


^And that is what I was thinking as well, that his personality and the constant way he keeps lying to himself about his base instincts of competitiveness are the reason why he does have restrictions imposed
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