AnimeSuki Forums

ZaLhErA · 2008-11-16, 14:55

Well , I enjoyed this show until the end except...

Spoiler for ending:

MrTerrorist · 2008-12-07, 13:42

I decided to take a look at this series after hearing some good things about it. Before i download it, which fansuuber group sub this series better, Anime Yoshi or anonymous speed subs?

Slice of Life · 2008-12-07, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

I decided to take a look at this series after hearing some good things about it. Before i download it, which fansuuber group sub this series better, Anime Yoshi or anonymous speed subs?

AniYoshi is the only group that did the middle part of the anime so you have to get them anyway. a.s.s did only the latter episodes when AniYoshi was stalled. The AniYoshi epsiodes I've seen were better but I don't know if their quality remained the same after they started releasing again because IIRC (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) they got a new translator. Nevertheless you should get AniYoshi's episodes up to 24 and only switch to a.s.s if you see a significant drop in translation quality in the latter part.

Tiran86 · 2008-12-12, 02:07

Ugh, just finished this, and I'm so disappointed. The second half absolutely blows compared to the first half. I loved the idea of switching to the children after the parent's story is finished, but it was so badly done.

Lillia is such a bland character compared to her mother, The only thing she did was get taken hostage and get angry at Treize. Treize had his moments, but overall was a weak character.

First half was great, second half was mediocre at best. The ending was down right terrible. I'll give it a 7/10, because I really liked the first half.

They should have ended it with Treize and Lillia kissing as the train went over the cliff. That would have been a memorable (and hilarious) ending and represented the second half of the series pretty well.

Sorrow-K · 2008-12-16, 06:39

I've been following AniYoshi's releases, so I still haven't seen the last episode, but I have to ask about ep 25, since it maketh no sense.

So Ann betrayed Wil. Her motives are fair enough, if hackneyed. But, what exactly did she do to help the bad-guys. They didn't exactly make that clear. And then she decides, after planning her revenge against Wil so carefully, that she should save him. What? But the thing that just makes simply no sense at all to me was that Wil was so quick to forgive her. I mean, what she did was basically treason. I don't understand how he could find it in his heart to let her continue serving on their mission, when her actions almost certainly should have gotten her court-martialed.

I mean, really. This show can be seriously unclear at times about its logic.

NoSanninWa · 2008-12-16, 06:44

As far as I can tell, Ann has not betrayed Will at all. She was merely considering killing him if she had the chance. It was a chance that had not yet appeared. No treason had occurred except in her heart and I think she discovered the truth of her heart when she responded to gunfire by stepping in front of him. Treason just isn't in her soul even if she mourns her father's death.

This is not one of those many times when the show lacks sense.

Sorrow-K · 2008-12-16, 07:53

You see, I don't think that was presented clearly. Wil was busy mulling over whether the incidents that had happened on the train were linked, and then a timely look of guilt from Ann suddenly gives away that she was contemplating the possibility of betraying him. I got the impression that Ann was somehow linked to the whole assassination plot when, according to your interpretation, the two are in fact completely disconnected (except for the fact that this is the best opportunity for betrayal that she's had). They needed to make it more clear that Ann had nothing to do with the assassination plot, since it muddied two supposedly separate issues.

NoSanninWa · 2008-12-17, 03:36

You say that it isn't clear for you, but it never even occurred to me that there was any connection between Ann and the current plot. Her situation seems to exist mostly to provide a counterpoint to all the other revenge stories that have been presented before now.

stewie0814 · 2008-12-21, 03:13

Hmm, well i was waiting for aniyoshis releases and finally finished watching this. While I agree that the first half was better, the 2nd half was enjoyable too, I also hoped they had explained how the things that happened happened.

This was definitely one of my favorite shows this year, most of the episodes were pretty exciting and intriguing

. I dont know about the manga/novels, if theres more story after this, but it would certainly be nice if there would be a second season of this, although I don't think this was such a popular show, which is a shame

Quote:

You see, I don't think that was presented clearly. Wil was busy mulling over whether the incidents that had happened on the train were linked, and then a timely look of guilt from Ann suddenly gives away that she was contemplating the possibility of betraying him. I got the impression that Ann was somehow linked to the whole assassination plot when, according to your interpretation, the two are in fact completely disconnected (except for the fact that this is the best opportunity for betrayal that she's had). They needed to make it more clear that Ann had nothing to do with the assassination plot, since it muddied two supposedly separate issues.

As for this, betrayal never crossed my mind either. I think she connected the dots after mathilda told her that Lillia was his daughter

fict_ticious · 2009-04-07, 18:46

Well, I decided to pick this series back up - I didn't feel compelled back then to watch past 4 waaaayyy back. I'm finally up to the halfway point, and now there is a permanent palm mark over my face. DEADBEAT DAD ANIMUs.
I'm going to finish this now no matter what.

EDIT: Okay, so it's a non-issue, but my point still stands.

Frozen_Skye · 2009-04-22, 08:38

Does anyone know where I can get the light novels in English? I'm so not satisfied with the Anime ending and I need morrreee!!

fict_ticious · 2009-04-22, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozen_Skye

Does anyone know where I can get the light novels in English? I'm so not satisfied with the Anime ending and I need morrreee!!

None exist at the moment. Dunno if they've made it to other east-asian languages (you have a better bet there).

strategos · 2009-04-22, 21:49

Just finished the series. The first half was awesome, the second was good. I am curious about something; Shinsensub release first four episode, what does it mean by linked chapters version??

Frozen_Skye · 2009-04-23, 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by fict_ticious

None exist at the moment. Dunno if they've made it to other east-asian languages (you have a better bet there).

Lol guess I'll ahve to try for a chinese one. It'll take me twice as long to read.

fict_ticious · 2009-04-23, 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by strategos

Just finished the series. The first half was awesome, the second was good. I am curious about something; Shinsensub release first four episode, what does it mean by linked chapters version??

Look here:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=66444

durack · 2009-12-02, 11:26

Just finished the series...well...I enjoyed it but there were a LOT of major groan-worthy moments (mostly related to retarded conspiracies and retarted villains)

From reading the thread, I am willing to give the novels the benefit of the doubt and blame the scenario writers.

To be honest, though, I am a very forgiving watcher and if I like the characters, I am willing to overlook major plot stupidity, as such I had a great time watching this show even though I was rolling my eyes frequently.

Wish there was a market for light novels here in the US.

roriconfan · 2010-10-13, 10:33

A somewhat useless intro. Skip if you feel bored.

Spoiler:

When I was a kid, television had almost entirely cartoons at morning shows for children. I grew up by watching anything Hanna Barbera or Dic had the kindness to import dubbed to my country. I have no problems with those shows back then; most were really great for their target audience. I was still a kid after all and there wasn’t a series I didn’t like. After all these years, many of those cartoons now appear extremely simplistic and naive. I would never sit down to watch them again, except if for a couple of episodes just to remember the good old 80’s when I had no worries besides school exams (practically zero) and my family had a thriving business (which is also now practically zero in income).

Now, the thing is that although naive, some of them could suspend your disbelief a lot better than others. In fact, the best amongst them are those with the least amount of times you would yell “This is not possible!” And yes, back then the chances of saying that, were (duh) practically zero but after so many years the internal logic of some of them work a lot better than others. Think of My Little Pony. Ok, it was a world of magic where anything was possible and so everything weird is somewhat excused. Or the Smurfs; sure, they are not even human so their way of life can be excused as being not-realistic. My grip was mostly with military cartoons like G.I.Joe or ecology-based like Captain Planet. Yes, the action was very cool and such but the internal logic was … hm … fishy. It was really hard to like a setting where tanks, airplanes and buildings would blow up but the soldiers would always find time to run away or avoid the blast by simply jumping sideways. And it’s not like I could consider them supermen either; they could be knocked out with a simple punch and have a hard time breaking simple ropes when tied. I mean this is war, right? If there are no casualties in a war, it’s not really a war. Or at least not a war you should care about. Same for the logic behind the hero-of-nature, who was presenting things as if the villains liked pollution and that a solution could easily be given without collapsing the world’s economy.

I start to rant too much here; what I mean is that a series needs to suspend your disbelief if it’s supposed to be enjoyed by its target audience.

G.I.Joe or Captain Planet were successful in their time when children were not that critical and knew less about technology or the internet than the average adult. Today, the little rascals can outsmart even me at times and the demand on entertainment is a lot higher. So imagine a series such as Allison to Lilia popping up to give a try.
It won’t work!
It might have been a success if made in the 80’s or even the 90’s but even then it would feel less captivating than an old series such as The Mysterious Cities of Gold. Or the Duck Tales, yeah, good luck beating that masterpiece. It is simply too silly compared to the themes it incorporates.

Now let me try to be more specific. This anime is like having My Little Pony characters in a Saving Private Ryan setting. It just makes no sense! How can you expect to have a war raging on and the characters are all so simplistic, especially when the story is not a pure comedy? How are you supposed to feel drama or tension from a cast that is so easily divided into good and bad people and whose problems can be resolved in the most childish, bloodless, simplistic means possible?

Maybe I sound overcritical but just try to follow my reasoning here. Tom and Jerry is quite the violent cartoon and has immortal characters, yet you can laugh with all that because the violence is used purely for slapstick. But here, the series is trying to make you feel worried about the future of the world because a scary war is waging on and the characters have to find a way to stop it before it’s too late. Well excuse me, without making the violence more bold or the story less serious, there are no connection points between the two.
Do you believe how much I compare an anime with Western cartoons? It’s because it feels even less interesting than those!
This formula worked great for anime like Slayers or Baccano because they were mostly comedies that anything else. Over here it’s like making spaghetti without the pasta and lacking even the sauce to fool your taste. I’m sorry; it doesn’t work. It couldn’t work. Especially in this decade. Even less if you have watched Full Metal Alchemist an action/ adventure that offers all the same elements and even a mountain worth or more.

Ok, back to more of an orthodox text. The animation and the music are just fine, with bright colors, cute looking/sounding characters and a world bursting with life. Very fitting for a storyless romantic comedy but unfortunately it’s a war drama / teen adventure combo that doesn’t feel scary or dirty or gruesome in any way. The atmosphere is off by miles. Plus, even production values are not in their best considering the year it was made. I give a 7 in both just for being nice and nothing else.

Story is a joke… without being funny. It is separated into two halves, with a pair of boy-girl in each. The first half had the kindness to try offering a story of sorts. A silly one but a story nonetheless, about the pair trying to stop the war between their countries in the most silly way possible. But the second half is just an aimless adventure without a clear goal or purpose, as if the scriptwriters were on strike and the whole arc is just filler. Talk about something bad becoming worse. I give a 3 for not trying much and then giving up … just like Tite Kubo.

The characters are just 2-dimensional archetypes you can easily find in better versions in almost any other similar show. The “butchy girl and the spineless boy in love but too dense to realize” trope has seen far better days than these two paper couples. Support cast and villains are or Pokemon level, as their role is just like a repetitive croak: “Support-support!” “Evil-evil!”. Yeah, ok, take a 4 and come back when you evolve or something.

Value and Enjoyment are as far as I’m concerned rock-bottom. There are sooooo many similar and yet sooooo much better series like this one, you might as well delete this one from your memory. Yes, it is that unimportant. So blunt and uniteresting, it isn’t even worthy of being remembered as a bad example of how to make a good show.

And now excuse me; I will now go watch the latest One Piece episode. Death and violence are also a joke there but at least it is funny.

SUGGESTION LIST
The Mysterious Cities of Gold
Full Metal Alchemist
Duck Tales

Average: 4/10

2008-11-16, 14:55	Link #581
ZaLhErA Undine of the Rebellion Join Date: Jul 2007	Well , I enjoyed this show until the end except... Spoiler for ending: How the heck can Trieze survive? At least explain us who don't read novels And what with the ending? Is it all? Treize doesn't confess to Lillia yet

2008-12-16, 06:39	Link #585
Sorrow-K Somehow I found out Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 40	I've been following AniYoshi's releases, so I still haven't seen the last episode, but I have to ask about ep 25, since it maketh no sense. So Ann betrayed Wil. Her motives are fair enough, if hackneyed. But, what exactly did she do to help the bad-guys. They didn't exactly make that clear. And then she decides, after planning her revenge against Wil so carefully, that she should save him. What? But the thing that just makes simply no sense at all to me was that Wil was so quick to forgive her. I mean, what she did was basically treason. I don't understand how he could find it in his heart to let her continue serving on their mission, when her actions almost certainly should have gotten her court-martialed. I mean, really. This show can be seriously unclear at times about its logic. __________________ .:The Nihon Review:.:Ikoku Meiro no Croisée:.:Tamayura: Hitotose:. .:Behind The Nihon Review:.:Understanding Guilty Crown’s Failure:. .:MAL:.:Twitter:.

2008-12-16, 06:44	Link #586
NoSanninWa Weapon of Mass Discussion Fansubber Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: New York, USA	As far as I can tell, Ann has not betrayed Will at all. She was merely considering killing him if she had the chance. It was a chance that had not yet appeared. No treason had occurred except in her heart and I think she discovered the truth of her heart when she responded to gunfire by stepping in front of him. Treason just isn't in her soul even if she mourns her father's death. This is not one of those many times when the show lacks sense. __________________ There's not that fine a line between willing suspension of disbelief and something just being stupid.

2008-12-16, 07:53	Link #587
Sorrow-K Somehow I found out Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 40	You see, I don't think that was presented clearly. Wil was busy mulling over whether the incidents that had happened on the train were linked, and then a timely look of guilt from Ann suddenly gives away that she was contemplating the possibility of betraying him. I got the impression that Ann was somehow linked to the whole assassination plot when, according to your interpretation, the two are in fact completely disconnected (except for the fact that this is the best opportunity for betrayal that she's had). They needed to make it more clear that Ann had nothing to do with the assassination plot, since it muddied two supposedly separate issues. __________________ .:The Nihon Review:.:Ikoku Meiro no Croisée:.:Tamayura: Hitotose:. .:Behind The Nihon Review:.:Understanding Guilty Crown’s Failure:. .:MAL:.:Twitter:.

2008-12-17, 03:36	Link #588
NoSanninWa Weapon of Mass Discussion Fansubber Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: New York, USA	You say that it isn't clear for you, but it never even occurred to me that there was any connection between Ann and the current plot. Her situation seems to exist mostly to provide a counterpoint to all the other revenge stories that have been presented before now. __________________ There's not that fine a line between willing suspension of disbelief and something just being stupid.

2008-12-07, 13:42	Link #582
MrTerrorist Takao Tsundere Cruiser Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Classified	I decided to take a look at this series after hearing some good things about it. Before i download it, which fansuuber group sub this series better, Anime Yoshi or anonymous speed subs?

2008-12-12, 02:07	Link #584
Tiran86 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008	Ugh, just finished this, and I'm so disappointed. The second half absolutely blows compared to the first half. I loved the idea of switching to the children after the parent's story is finished, but it was so badly done. Lillia is such a bland character compared to her mother, The only thing she did was get taken hostage and get angry at Treize. Treize had his moments, but overall was a weak character. First half was great, second half was mediocre at best. The ending was down right terrible. I'll give it a 7/10, because I really liked the first half. They should have ended it with Treize and Lillia kissing as the train went over the cliff. That would have been a memorable (and hilarious) ending and represented the second half of the series pretty well.

2009-04-07, 18:46	Link #590
fict_ticious I can has drinks? Join Date: Mar 2006	Well, I decided to pick this series back up - I didn't feel compelled back then to watch past 4 waaaayyy back. I'm finally up to the halfway point, and now there is a permanent palm mark over my face. DEADBEAT DAD ANIMUs. I'm going to finish this now no matter what. EDIT: Okay, so it's a non-issue, but my point still stands. Last edited by fict_ticious; 2009-04-07 at 19:12.

2009-04-22, 08:38	Link #591
Frozen_Skye Vampire Join Date: Dec 2005	Does anyone know where I can get the light novels in English? I'm so not satisfied with the Anime ending and I need morrreee!!

2009-04-22, 21:49	Link #593
strategos Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	Just finished the series. The first half was awesome, the second was good. I am curious about something; Shinsensub release first four episode, what does it mean by linked chapters version?? __________________ Support your favorite Anime/Manga when they are available at you region!!!! http://www.viz.com/apps http://www.hulu.com

2009-12-02, 11:26	Link #596
durack Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	Just finished the series...well...I enjoyed it but there were a LOT of major groan-worthy moments (mostly related to retarded conspiracies and retarted villains) From reading the thread, I am willing to give the novels the benefit of the doubt and blame the scenario writers. To be honest, though, I am a very forgiving watcher and if I like the characters, I am willing to overlook major plot stupidity, as such I had a great time watching this show even though I was rolling my eyes frequently. Wish there was a market for light novels here in the US.

2010-10-13, 10:33	Link #597
roriconfan Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Thessaloniki - Greece	A somewhat useless intro. Skip if you feel bored. Spoiler: When I was a kid, television had almost entirely cartoons at morning shows for children. I grew up by watching anything Hanna Barbera or Dic had the kindness to import dubbed to my country. I have no problems with those shows back then; most were really great for their target audience. I was still a kid after all and there wasn’t a series I didn’t like. After all these years, many of those cartoons now appear extremely simplistic and naive. I would never sit down to watch them again, except if for a couple of episodes just to remember the good old 80’s when I had no worries besides school exams (practically zero) and my family had a thriving business (which is also now practically zero in income). Now, the thing is that although naive, some of them could suspend your disbelief a lot better than others. In fact, the best amongst them are those with the least amount of times you would yell “This is not possible!” And yes, back then the chances of saying that, were (duh) practically zero but after so many years the internal logic of some of them work a lot better than others. Think of My Little Pony. Ok, it was a world of magic where anything was possible and so everything weird is somewhat excused. Or the Smurfs; sure, they are not even human so their way of life can be excused as being not-realistic. My grip was mostly with military cartoons like G.I.Joe or ecology-based like Captain Planet. Yes, the action was very cool and such but the internal logic was … hm … fishy. It was really hard to like a setting where tanks, airplanes and buildings would blow up but the soldiers would always find time to run away or avoid the blast by simply jumping sideways. And it’s not like I could consider them supermen either; they could be knocked out with a simple punch and have a hard time breaking simple ropes when tied. I mean this is war, right? If there are no casualties in a war, it’s not really a war. Or at least not a war you should care about. Same for the logic behind the hero-of-nature, who was presenting things as if the villains liked pollution and that a solution could easily be given without collapsing the world’s economy. I start to rant too much here; what I mean is that a series needs to suspend your disbelief if it’s supposed to be enjoyed by its target audience. G.I.Joe or Captain Planet were successful in their time when children were not that critical and knew less about technology or the internet than the average adult. Today, the little rascals can outsmart even me at times and the demand on entertainment is a lot higher. So imagine a series such as Allison to Lilia popping up to give a try. It won’t work! It might have been a success if made in the 80’s or even the 90’s but even then it would feel less captivating than an old series such as The Mysterious Cities of Gold. Or the Duck Tales, yeah, good luck beating that masterpiece. It is simply too silly compared to the themes it incorporates. Now let me try to be more specific. This anime is like having My Little Pony characters in a Saving Private Ryan setting. It just makes no sense! How can you expect to have a war raging on and the characters are all so simplistic, especially when the story is not a pure comedy? How are you supposed to feel drama or tension from a cast that is so easily divided into good and bad people and whose problems can be resolved in the most childish, bloodless, simplistic means possible? Maybe I sound overcritical but just try to follow my reasoning here. Tom and Jerry is quite the violent cartoon and has immortal characters, yet you can laugh with all that because the violence is used purely for slapstick. But here, the series is trying to make you feel worried about the future of the world because a scary war is waging on and the characters have to find a way to stop it before it’s too late. Well excuse me, without making the violence more bold or the story less serious, there are no connection points between the two. Do you believe how much I compare an anime with Western cartoons? It’s because it feels even less interesting than those! This formula worked great for anime like Slayers or Baccano because they were mostly comedies that anything else. Over here it’s like making spaghetti without the pasta and lacking even the sauce to fool your taste. I’m sorry; it doesn’t work. It couldn’t work. Especially in this decade. Even less if you have watched Full Metal Alchemist an action/ adventure that offers all the same elements and even a mountain worth or more. Ok, back to more of an orthodox text. The animation and the music are just fine, with bright colors, cute looking/sounding characters and a world bursting with life. Very fitting for a storyless romantic comedy but unfortunately it’s a war drama / teen adventure combo that doesn’t feel scary or dirty or gruesome in any way. The atmosphere is off by miles. Plus, even production values are not in their best considering the year it was made. I give a 7 in both just for being nice and nothing else. Story is a joke… without being funny. It is separated into two halves, with a pair of boy-girl in each. The first half had the kindness to try offering a story of sorts. A silly one but a story nonetheless, about the pair trying to stop the war between their countries in the most silly way possible. But the second half is just an aimless adventure without a clear goal or purpose, as if the scriptwriters were on strike and the whole arc is just filler. Talk about something bad becoming worse. I give a 3 for not trying much and then giving up … just like Tite Kubo. The characters are just 2-dimensional archetypes you can easily find in better versions in almost any other similar show. The “butchy girl and the spineless boy in love but too dense to realize” trope has seen far better days than these two paper couples. Support cast and villains are or Pokemon level, as their role is just like a repetitive croak: “Support-support!” “Evil-evil!”. Yeah, ok, take a 4 and come back when you evolve or something. Value and Enjoyment are as far as I’m concerned rock-bottom. There are sooooo many similar and yet sooooo much better series like this one, you might as well delete this one from your memory. Yes, it is that unimportant. So blunt and uniteresting, it isn’t even worthy of being remembered as a bad example of how to make a good show. And now excuse me; I will now go watch the latest One Piece episode. Death and violence are also a joke there but at least it is funny. SUGGESTION LIST The Mysterious Cities of Gold Full Metal Alchemist Duck Tales Average: 4/10