Another - Episode 7 Discussion / Poll

[Hakuromatsu]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

I'm not the type to over-analyze anime works, as I think that ruins the enjoyment, so I'll stop there.

Agreed. We were debating something nitpicky, too.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Hakuromatsu

Agreed. We were debating something nitpicky, too.

Yeah - it's not that I wasn't enjoying our discussion, but over-analyzing aspects of series with a critical eye and going on at great lengths about how something could have been done better tends to ruin the fun of a series for me. Once I start doing that, I tend to view everything else with a mind to criticism, and can't simply enjoy it for what it is.

[Guido]

I feel that joining the discussion regarding all conspiracy theories about the phenomenon and the identity of who's the one being the dead would give me headaches.

What the story delivers is very complex and layered, and it's not a mystery that can be solved with only detecting the clues and seeing them from different dimensions.

Kutsuzawa might have been playing with Kouichi being the "Another" at the cafe, but even if it was for teasing we shouldn't let it slide the following....

Spoiler:

Kouichi's mother died 15 years ago right after giving birth to him.

At the end of the episode, Misaki wholeheartedly tells Kouichi that he's alive.
From previous episodes, Misaki said that she is also alive, but I cannot recall which episode.

I have a theory, taking into account as well the story of Misaki's little sister's stillbirth, that why not if the one dead taking its place in Classroom-3 can also be someone who never had existed at all.

For example, someone borned from a mother whom the latter died from the phenomenon, hence, that someone could not possibly exist at all, or someone borned a stillborn.

It doesn't necessarily has be to someone who strictly either gets killed in a freaky accident triggered by the phenomenon or murdered.


Second, I know the pieces match with the deaths stopping mid-year at August 1983, and Matsuzawa cryptically letting slip out that he saved his classmates with something that he forgot.

[sa547]

I share the opinion of the previous posters at the beginning of the thread, with a pair of shocking sequences, but then I kind of smiled when, apart from Misaki and Koichi apparently no longer on the "non-existent" list as they're interacting with the others, there would appear to be the possible beginnings of a love triangle, as Izumi slowly warms up to Koichi.

Oh, well, this time it's no longer possible to hold up, to deny, or to keep quiet about the "Curse of 3-3".

EDIT: noted a Salvador Dali reproduction on our favorite artisan's t-shirt.

[TinyRedLeaf]

At the rate we're speculating, I won't be surprised to find Izumi engaging Mei in bloody combat at Yomiyama Shrine in some future episode, both in the name of killing the "extra" and thus saving their beloved Kouichi.

Hmm... I see fan-fiction/omake potential...

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

At the rate we're speculating, I won't be surprised to find Izumi engaging Mei in bloody combat at Yomiyama Shrine in some future episode, both in the name of killing the "extra" and thus saving their beloved Kouichi.

Hmm... I see fan-fiction/omake potential...

Mei's a lot more formidable than she looks. She didn't have any problems doing some gymnastics back in episode 6.

[DesuX2]

「I don't get this episode and the last. There seems to be repeated themes in both (like the cell static) but the facts don't link up at all. So Misaki Mei has a sister as I thought. And she died as I thought. But she died 12 years ago. Then who was Fujiwara Misaki? Her cousin? That wouldn't make sense since she refers to her as "the other half" and yet refers to her dead sister as a "half" as well. Maybe it's because I don't understand family trees.」

[White Manju Bun]

Originally Posted by DesuX2

Then who was Fujiwara Misaki? Her cousin? That wouldn't make sense since she refers to her as "the other half" and yet refers to her dead sister as a "half" as well. Maybe it's because I don't understand family trees.」

Mei tells Kouichi that Fuijwara is her cousin back in epi....uh 3 maybe? When he asks her what she was doing at the hospital. Of course what she meant by "other half" that I have no idea

[Lord of Fire]

I thought it merely meant that they were very close, maybe to the point where Mei started seeing her as the sister she never had.

Then again, with this show, nothing is certain.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Pellissier

The fact that his own hands seemed willing to stop right before the stabbing, but then started to move almost "on their own" as if something was pushing them, points towards the option that this event can't be ruled out without associating it to the phenomenon.

I'm not sure he would have committed suicide - even if that was his intention - in "normal" circumstances. Perhaps he would have put the same act in front of the class, but I don't know if he'd been able to go ahead with the second part.

To be honest, that's exactly the problem I have with this.

I'd like to blame it on a human's natural habit of instinctively not wanting to die. Hesitation is NORMAL here.

The main problem with this is that the deaths aren't supernatural, so a "supernatural force, forcing him to take his own life" doesn't fit the calamity's M.O.

[FateAnomaly]

The deaths ARE supernatural. It just not a curse.

[Kanon]

The phenomenon can alter memories, move objects (making the pointy end of an umbrella stick upward, cause an elevator cable to fail at exactly the right moment, and who knows what it did to the car of Yukari's mother) and worsen an existing illness enough to kill a person (what's his name's heart condition); why is it so hard to believe it can also manipulate the thoughts or the body of a human being? Anything's possible when you're dealing with the supernatural.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Kanon

The phenomenon can alter memories, move objects (making the pointy end of an umbrella stick upward, cause an elevator cable to fail at exactly the right moment, and who knows what it did to the car of Yukari's mother) and worsen an existing illness enough to kill a person (what's his name's heart condition); why is it so hard to believe it can also manipulate the thoughts or the body of a human being? Anything's possible when you're dealing with the supernatural.

There has been 0 evidence that there was an invisible force causing those deaths. It's more like the calamity messes with probabilities, rather than actually physically interfering.

[Lord of Fire]

Originally Posted by FateAnomaly

The deaths ARE supernatural.

They are? Since when?

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Dengar

There has been 0 evidence that there was an invisible force causing those deaths. It's more like the calamity messes with probabilities, rather than actually physically interfering.

Of course there is an invisible force causing these deaths. They don't happen by accident (that's the whole point of the anime). It's how exactly the phenomenon creates the circumstances leading to the deaths that is debatable, and you made a good point: there's no clear evidence of physical interference, just like there's no evidence the phenomenon merely messes with probabilities. We have no idea what its limitations are, so it's perfectly possible for the teacher to have been manipulated until proven otherwise. What we do know, however, is that Chibiki, who knows more about the calamity than anybody else, had no problem writing him off as yet another victim. He even believes there are no other explanations. That and the teacher's strange behavior before he stabbed himself are enough for me to believe this version. There are no inconsistencies this way.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Of course there is an invisible force causing these deaths. They don't happen by accident (that's the whole point of the anime). It's how exactly the phenomenon creates the circumstances leading to the deaths that is debatable, and you made a good point: there's no clear evidence of physical interference, just like there's no evidence the phenomenon merely messes with probabilities.

I wrote my misgivings about this before, but in brief, I agree with Dengar. In my opinion, everything that happens is a conveniently-timed accident. There is no direct manipulation of physical objects. The umbrella that pierced Yukari wasn't being held by something - it happened to fall at such an angle and open with such timing that it resulted in her death. The elevator cables happened to snap and the entire system happened to fail just at that moment - nothing cut them. Heart attacks have physical causes, but it's not like anything in particular triggered Takabayashi's (or what ever his name was) - it was just convenient timing.

In each of these events, there was no "force" or invisible spirit that knocked anyone over, or that directly manipulated objects. Even when Kouichi saved the theater girl from the falling pane of glass, there was a freak strong wind that tipped it over - the glass didn't just fall randomly.

So now we're to make the jump that something out of nowhere pushed a man's hand? Maybe it's what was intended, but the way it played it, I don't think that was the intention. He clearly intended to kill himself, and as I wrote before (and as Dengar mentioned), it's natural for a person to have difficulty committing such grave self-injury. It's not like he paused, calmed down, and then was surprised when the knife came plunging at his throat. It was clear that he was steeling his nerves, and he was expecting it. He was in full control the entire time.

I'd be willing to go back on this point if we see more things like this in the upcoming episodes, and if they make it clear that something was forcing people's hands.

Then again, I'd be willing to bet that the novel's take on this scene should make it clear what the intent was

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

I wrote my misgivings about this before, but in brief, I agree with Dengar. In my opinion, everything that happens is a conveniently-timed accident. There is no direct manipulation of physical objects. The umbrella that pierced Yukari wasn't being held by something - it happened to fall at such an angle and open with such timing that it resulted in her death. The elevator cables happened to snap and the entire system happened to fail just at that moment - nothing cut them. Heart attacks have physical causes, but it's not like anything in particular triggered Takabayashi's (or what ever his name was) - it was just convenient timing.

But following that logic,you're not in the presence of a phenomenon anymore,just really really bad luck.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by totoum

But following that logic,you're not in the presence of a phenomenon anymore,just really really bad luck.

Yes, but the improbability of it is what makes it special. How improbable things are and the significance of their timing is the basis of superstition, after all.

Within Another, the fact that "terrible luck" befalls people one after another, in one specific class, every year (unless countermeasures are taken - actions wrought in superstitious belief), is what leads to it being called a "phenomenon." It could just be luck, but there's too much about it that indicates that it's more than that. If it were just luck, shouldn't it happen to everyone, and at random times?

I'm not sure why I keep getting into this conversation, though... if someone wants to think that something supernatural forced the teacher's hand, I don't imagine that it alters anything about understanding the story. I disagree with that interpretation, but I guess it doesn't really matter.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

Yes, but the improbability of it is what makes it special. How improbable things are and the significance of their timing is the basis of superstition, after all.

Within Another, the fact that "terrible luck" befalls people one after another, in one specific class, every year (unless countermeasures are taken - actions wrought in superstitious belief), is what leads to it being called a "phenomenon." It could just be luck, but there's too much about it that indicates that it's more than that. If it were just luck, shouldn't it happen to everyone, and at random times?

I'm not sure why I keep getting into this conversation, though... if someone wants to think that something supernatural forced the teacher's hand, I don't imagine that it alters anything about understanding the story. I disagree with that interpretation, but I guess it doesn't really matter.

That's why you keep getting into this conversation,if it's something more than just luck (so no coincidence) and it's not supernatural,how do you explain those deaths?

[AuraTwilight]

Also, um, some aspect of the phenomenon is rewriting people's memories as it 'wills' (as much as a nonsentient force can be said to have a such a thing), so 'mind control' has precedent and is completely and totally legit.