[Manga] Who is Tobi?

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by Teru987

If you read back to older post i already gave evidence proving obito theory wrong please. As well as other people have also pointed in past post. I dont get why you keep trying to say its obito when nothing points to it. It has never been hinted that Madara new Obito and was going to uses his body.

You didn't disprove Obito Theory. As I already pointed out, you had an incorrect understanding of the timeline. I'm going to re-post the timeline, so that we can get past the already debunked "I disproved Obito Theory" posts.

[Sasukemaru]

I already discredited the obito theory using ur own timeline hiking bear. Can we plz start discussing legitimate theories now. This obito play has gotten real old.

[Sasukemaru]

The fact obito theorists are making graphs that place their own interpretations of when madara's death took place, as well as other things, then push it ofg as a fact because they made a chart says it all.

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by Sasukemaru

Hiking bear lets use your timeline, it dont make any difference.

Kabuto told madara he increased his powers from his golden age, not that he returned his youth to him. The chapter when madara first uses the wood release he asks kabuto what exactly have u done to my body. Because he could see no difference in his power, that is when kabuto tells him he can now use wood release. Madara wouldn't have to ask kabuto that question if he was old and made young again.

What does he mean by golden age u wonder? Its welk known after his fight with the first madara was no longer the same fighter. Even latet after unlocking rinnegan his actual body was still not what it used to be. Kabuto simply returned his body pre hashirama fight, he kept the rinnegan he unlocked after the fight, and had the wood release added to him post death. Never, i repeat NEVER is it said he had his youth returned. It would be pretty stupid of him to ask kabuto what exactly he did, if it was something so obvious dont u think?

You are not making any sense. You say that Kabuto returned Madara to his pre-Hashirama-Fight body. And then you say that Kabuto did not return Madara's youth. That's a contradiction.

Madara was younger when he fought Hashirama than when he died. And he died much later than his fight with Hashirama due to the fact that he knew Nagato.

Secondly, I said that Kabuto made Madara's Edo Tensei special in that Madara had the youthful form of his prime along with the Rinnegan power that he only achieved later in life shortly before his death. This is true. And I don't see anything in your posts that refutes that.

Thirdly, you don't even mention Obito in this last post. So, how does any of this disprove Obito Theory?

You're on the verge of trolling here.

Originally Posted by Sasukemaru

The fact obito theorists are making graphs that place their own interpretations of when madara's death took place, as well as other things, then push it ofg as a fact because they made a chart says it all.

I already gave the proof for the timing of Madara's death. You had your chance to dispute it and you didn't, or rather couldn't. So, if you have nothing to offer other than whining, please move on.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Teru987

If you read back to older post i already gave evidence proving obito theory wrong please. As well as other people have also pointed in past post. I dont get why you keep trying to say its obito when nothing points to it. It has never been hinted that Madara new Obito and was going to uses his body.

speaking of trolling... how many posts are you guys going to write with just fluff, whinng and nonsense and then claim that it disproves obito theory?

Originally Posted by Sasukemaru

A small amount of chakra wouldn't be sufficient in reanimating a corpse. Not to mention if it was just a small amount he wouldn't have the power to control the 9 tails. Small amount, large amount, regardless of how u want to coin it it does not stand up the logic test. If it was 90/10 obito chakra he wouldn't be possessed i guess u could say by madara, he also wouldn't have the power to control the kyuubi, and the 4th and kakashi would have recognized his chakra by now. If he was 90/10 madara chakra, the kyuubi would have noticed it. The obito theory is dead, period.

you are not factoring in zetsu's body and hashirama chakra which tobi clearly possesses...

Also u keep trying to make every excuse why this theory isn't dead, u make up a new story every week. Put a fork in it, your lil theory is done. You can create a million different scenarios to keep this theory on life support, but it's about time to pull the plug. If you're so interested in who tobi is, then why not put ur personal feelings aside and start discussing a theory that isnt already 6 feet under.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

how can you expect me to buy into your 'dead theory' nonsense when you write post after post with no evidence disproving it? you will not face the fact that you can't disprove it and just continue to convince yourself that you already have done it in some old post that never existed...

Originally Posted by Dengar

Ok now this is going into... what's this territory called again? Trolling? Leave me to my own theories unless you have evidence. Case closed.

if there was 'evidence' then we would know who tobi was wouldn't we? try reading back in this thread about the plethora of 'hints' as to tobi being obito. much much more than any other character is hinted at

Can't you read or something? The big reveal about Tobi's identity was recently.

God... Why do I even bother with this it's so annoying.

I wonder about your guys' literacy as well... it is annoying to have to repeat myself constantly. nobody is forcing you guys to continually respond with nonsensical posts that don't disprove obito theory and then somehow claim that they did...

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

I already gave the proof for the timing of Madara's death. You had your chance to dispute it and you didn't, or rather couldn't. So, if you have nothing to offer other than whining, please move on.

the trolls are calling the kettle black here. obito theorists have put forth the hints. haters have put forth the hate, whining, complaining, fluff, sarcasm, rudeness, name calling, etc... basically everything but actual evidence discrediting the theory. end of story

[Sasukemaru]

Lol u two are something else, i got an idea. Once tobi is unmasked we all meet back up in this thread to see who was right. Does that sound good?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Sasukemaru

Lol u two are something else, i got an idea. Once tobi is unmasked we all meet back up in this thread to see who was right. Does that sound good?

well once again you don't get what I'm saying. it's nothing to be right or wrong about. I've never said he 'will' be obito or partly obito. I've just said obito theory is the theory with the most hints and that it can't be proven wrong at this point in time, which is a factual statement. that being said, I find it fun to take the obito theory side so I have no problem going down with the ship if tobi turns out to have no connection to obito. But I will miss thinking about who he can be =)

[Sasukemaru]

Well just like with the akatsuki leader im sure a new debate will pop up, but i doubt it will be half as entertaining as this one.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Sasukemaru

Well just like with the akatsuki leader im sure a new debate will pop up, but i doubt it will be half as entertaining as this one.

yea tobi's gotta take the cake for long running anime mysteries. as much as I want to know, I'm happy the longer kishi takes to reveal since it will be bittersweet no matter who tobi turns out to be

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

You didn't disprove Obito Theory. As I already pointed out, you had an incorrect understanding of the timeline. I'm going to re-post the timeline, so that we can get past the already debunked "I disproved Obito Theory" posts.

^ Conjecture. You don't actually know when Madara died, and the final showdown between Madara and Hashirama isn't on it either.

Besides, if Madara dies when Obito is born makes no sense either.

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by Dengar

^ Conjecture. You don't actually know when Madara died, and the final showdown between Madara and Hashirama isn't on it either.

Besides, if Madara dies when Obito is born makes no sense either.

It's not conjecture. It's a conclusion that is based on facts from the manga, not guesswork. Madara knew Nagato as a young kid. That fact alone tells you that he was still alive 40 years ago. It makes no sense for him to have died any earlier than that, as Nagato would not have existed then.

But we have more information to go on. Madara told us when he died. He died shortly after awakening the Rinnegan. Furthermore, we know that Madara gave this Rinnegan to Nagato. As explained by Tobi, Madara was the 2nd Six Path Sage, Nagato was the 3rd, and Nagato's eyes were given to him by Madara. When was Nagato first shown with the Rinnegan? About 30 years ago.

[Dengar]

Just because you made rough estimates on approximate ages of certain characters, does not stop conjecture from being the thing that it is.

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Just because you made rough estimates on approximate ages of certain characters, does not stop conjecture from being the thing that it is.

I use the word "about" where appropriate. But all of these dates are based off of the manga. The error bars on the approximated ages would be something like +/- 2 years.

Nagato's age can be deduced in a couple of ways.

Method 1: Based off of Minato's age.

The age of Naruto's father isn't given in the databook, but we can get a good idea by looking at the ages of the fathers of Naruto's generation of classmates:

Shibi Aburame (39)
Choza Akimichi (38)
Shikaku Nara (41)
Hiashi Hyuga (41-42)
Fourth Kazekage (40)
Fugaku Uchiha (40)
Inoichi Yamanaka (38)

My timeline has Minato as being born 38 years ago. Nagato was Jiraiya's student before Minato, so one would expect him to be a little bit older, so Nagato is around 40 at the time of his death.

Method 2: Based off of Yahiko's age

In Page 8 of Chapter 427, Chouji estimates that Deva Path (Yahiko) is approximately 25-30 years old. This means that Yahiko was 25-30 years old at the time of his death. When did Yahiko die? He died in the confrontation with Hanzo during the Third Shinobi War. We know that the Third Shinobi War ended shortly after Kakashi Gaiden (about 1 year before Naruto was born). Thus Yahiko was 25-30 at least 1 year before Naruto was born. Naruto is now 16 years old. So, we can add 17 to figure how old Yahiko would be if he survived to the present. (25 to30) + 17 = (42 to 47 years old). 47 is probably a high end estimate considering that Jiariya is 54 in the present. If we take 25, then Yahiko would be about 42 years old if he survived to the present.

Taking Nagato to be a little bit younger than Yahiko would make Nagato about 41.


So, I have just given two independent methods based off of the manga that give Nagato's approximate age as 40 +/-2 years.

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Again, it's backwards. What reason, in-universe, is there for Tobi to take off the mask? There is none. He is no one, after all.

I don't like going into meta for explanations. It's silly.

It's only a theory of mine, and I'm sticking to it until actual, in-universe evidence is presented. I don't mind being wrong, but I can't be talking things like "right" or "wrong" until there is actual evidence.

The reason for Kishi to take Tobi's mask off is to surprise us with his identity, if Tobi is nobody like you say then Kishi wouldn't have made such a big deal out of Tobi's identity.

[Dengar]

... But it IS a big deal. Everyone thought he was Madara, but now it turns out he isn't! Why don't you understand?

Also, why do you INSIST on being so meta?

[james0246]

Truthfully, I do not see why it matters who Tobi is or is not anymore. Being Obito offers no real new character insight (unless Tobi is just Obito, and has little to do with Madara) and revealing a new character seems pointlessand unecessary. I do have some hope fora shocker from Kishimoto, but I strongly doubt we will get anything new and exciting (though I do like the idea of Tobi being lterally no one.).

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by Dengar

... But it IS a big deal. Everyone thought he was Madara, but now it turns out he isn't! Why don't you understand?

Also, why do you INSIST on being so meta?

By nobody I've been presuming you mean Tobi was just a unknown character, is this correct? like a unknown Uchiha called Tobi Uchiha which would be dull.

Izuna or Kagami are good options for Kishi to choose as Tobi's identity, he could show some flashbacks of how they came to be Tobi.

I would actually prefer Tobi to be Obito then him being nobody since it would feel like I've waited for a twist but then Tobi took his mask off and he was a random dude.

[Dengar]

Again with all the meta. "that would be dull" is totally irrelevant in-universe. He's wearing a mask because he:

1: Was pretending to be Madara
2: Considers himself to be no one

Conversely, if he was Obito, there would be no point to the mask, whatsoever. Who is going to recognize him?

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Again with all the meta. "that would be dull" is totally irrelevant in-universe. He's wearing a mask because he:

1: Was pretending to be Madara
2: Considers himself to be no one

Conversely, if he was Obito, there would be no point to the mask, whatsoever. Who is going to recognize him?

Kakashi may recognize Obito after looking for a while if Tobi was Obito.

Its possible for Tobi to be nobody but I think its more likely he's someone we've at least heard off since it will be more of a interesting plot twist.

[Dengar]

Still meta....

Despite the meta to the point of ridiculousness, here you raise an excellent point which I'd like to continue debating: Kakashi would recognize him.

Conversely, Obito would recognize Kakashi. He's been right there in plain sight for a fair amount of chapters, and Tobi never reacted to him in any way.