Macross Frontier - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Tsuchiro]

Originally Posted by Kristen

Whoa... Just found something interesting

In the verse of Lion that started at 18:48, I knew something was make it more climactic other than the action. If you listen closely, starting at around18:59.50, Ranka is singing about just held "Ah"s, and sometimes changing pitch. God, whoever produced Macross is just GENIUS. Something so simple like that is able to change the entire feel of a song so much... Ooh, I want that arranged track! Even better, could we just have the soundtrack for the episode and no talking?

The remix is in ost 2.

[kujoe]

Originally Posted by Mughi

Here's how these things tend to get decided... The Writer and Director want to troll the audience and have an ambigious ending where NO girl gets picked. But in the last few eps, they have been having two of the chara get all snuggly, playing house etc... So they need to balance the triangle in order to set up the non-decision a few scenes later, at the end.

It's a shame though. I wish they would make a stand and finish through with what has been set up. I remember the annoying indecisiveness that plagued Kimagure Orange Road... Now that was a messy triangle, but I have to give credit where it was due. When it was resolved blood got spilled and heads rolled... Good times.

I won't be surprised if your version of events is actually true. I always figured that writers and directors think about fan reaction more than anything, money—or the end result in other words. If they think they can keep fans talking by setting up controversies or interesting mysteries, they wouldn't hesitate to go through with them. I doubt they're that sincere in wowing us with twists and turns for art's sake. Plus it sets things up open for sequels or other related works down the line.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

I'm kind of confused as to how BF's got it's main gun back. I mean it was clearly in pieces, now its whole again... maybe perhaps there was a spare gun on Isle 1?

Also, why is BF in ship mode... the last time we saw it was during re-entry and I didn't think BF could transform mid flight in atmosphere. Unless its due to the new tech that the VF's use now while transforming.

Animation magic. just go with the flow. Really it would have been too much trouble for them to draw a new CG for that when they already had one with the gun intact. IT probably would have cost them not that much but why waste the time and money for it.

[Kristen]

Originally Posted by Tsuchiro

The remix is in ost 2.

Well, that's the first good thing I've heard all day. Time to order.

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by Kristen

Whoa... Just found something interesting

In the verse of Lion that started at 18:48, I knew something was make it more climactic other than the action. If you listen closely, starting at around18:59.50, Ranka is singing about just held "Ah"s, and sometimes changing pitch. God, whoever produced Macross is just GENIUS. Something so simple like that is able to change the entire feel of a song so much... Ooh, I want that arranged track! Even better, could we just have the soundtrack for the episode and no talking?

We have Yoko Kanno, a genius music composer, behind the reigns of the music in Frontier. Her working together with Shouji Kawamori, a genius himself, makes it no surprise that the music and action meld so well together.

She's definitely amazing. You should check out her other works and material... I did and I wasn't disappointed.

[Wesley84]

Ah, so it's all her fault the story ended up sucking. Good to know.

[TwilightHack]

@Wesley84 - If you have nothing good or helpful to add to the discussion, don't add anything at all. Trying to incite flames will do you no good.

And clearly you didn't even the entirety of my post before responding, or else you wouldn't have made yourself look like a very ill-informed user.

[Wesley84]

They wrote the story to match the music didn't they? Rather than the other way around. Therefore, it's her fault. All her fault.

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

They wrote the story to match the music didn't they? Rather than the other way around. Therefore, it's her fault. All her fault.

lol

And that my friends is the definition of a classic forum troll. All flame inspiring comments with little basis to back it.

oops, broke my own rule! oh well, trolling needed a definition.

[lars18th]

Originally Posted by nanikore

I'm going to post a contrarian opinion...

• What's with the "let's suddenly all float together and have a chitchat" scene? Was the (virtual) slap in the face made possible via fold quartz also?
• The suspension of disbelief went down several notches no thanks to scenes like the ones above, in this last episode. The last episode is a bad place for it to happen too. The cheesiness of it all (discounting the big-budget CG, which in a way was wasted) didn't help at all.
• Last battle was horrendously choreographed, despite the garish CG. It does not come even close to the original Macross. Yes, I did see it again recently.
• Episode quality declined steadily since its high point (which was the revelation of Grace-as-villain) until the sloppy disaster that is the last episode.

There. Got it off my chest.

It's a shame you diminished that key scene of the final episode. It was probably the most important scene of the entire saga. It's a "spiritual" scene (which can easily be explained by the nature of communication among the vajira, the fold quartz near Alto's head and the fact that both girls were infected by the V-virus).
They connected for a brief moment that truly explains the love relationship between all three.
That scene clearly shows that those three characters need, love and help each other beyond the point of a simple resolution of setting up a happy pair.
They all love each other, they give each other strength and they only made it this far because of the influence of the other two. If you pay close attention to the whole series, there is very little actual RIVALRY between the two girls. Even though Sheryl has a more aggressive personality, one can tell she had a special affinity with Ranka from the moment they met (maybe related to the v-virus).
Their relationship was never a dispute, it was never an actual fight to see who gets Alto.
In that same last episode, Sheryl demands that Alto saves Ranka. Ranka "cures" Sheryl from the virus and brings her back to life. Alto is fighting for both of them and even declares thet they are his wings and he needs both.
What I am trying to get to is the fact that all three characters love each other to a point that transcends the simple resolution of a happy ending disney princess movie.
It's just not gonna happen. Kawamori may have given you that resolution 25 years ago with DYRL but he is not willing to compromise today in 2008 and I stand by his vision 100%.
Forcing Alto to pick one would take away from the fact that he REALLY DOES love both of them equally. The end was not left "open" or up to you the viewer to decide. The end is clear and whatever happens from that moment on (Alto getting married to either or none of them) takes away from the fact that he does love both girls equally.
The fact that in the very end, Ranka and Sheryl playfully challenge each other in music and in love is proof that they have come to terms with their love being beyond a simple resolution.

In my opinion, this ending is a nod to the fact that Hikaru also did equally love both Minmey and Hayase but was forced to pick one due to harsh circunstances.

I am really happy by the way the series has ended. Forcing a situation where Alto, at this point, has to pick and marry one girl would completely banalize this show.

[grss1982]

BTW.....Brera's SECOND VF-27 Kill in Episode 25.



First was the one that almost got Alto and the second was the one above.

Amazingly enough...if played in its normal speed I only caught the VF-27 gunpod. For a second I even thought that Brera lost his gunpod.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

lol

And that my friends is the definition of a classic forum troll. All flame inspiring comments with little basis to back it.

oops, broke my own rule! oh well, trolling needed a definition.

It's your fault if it pisses you off.

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

It's your fault if it pisses you off.

Pisses me off? Lol, stop flattering yourself.

I find you extremely funny in a stupid sort of way. I actually think it might be pity! After all, you try so hard and yet get nowhere. Its kind of pathetic really.

Truthfully, I've seen better trolls in my time here.

[Wesley84]

So if it doesn't piss you off, how can you accuse me of flamebaiting?

[TwilightHack]

There there Westley, the context in which you used "All her fault" will always be a subjective phrase and will therefore always be considered flamebait. Especially with the use of "fault" in there.

Besides, why are you so convinced that you're actually managing to piss me off? I think, you think too highly of yourself.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

There there Westley, the context in which you used "All her fault" will always be a subjective phrase and will therefore always be considered flamebait. Especially the "fault" in there.

Besides, why are you so convinced that you're actually managing to piss me off? I think, you think too highly of yourself. You know, you don't need to piss people off to be a troll.

So you're not allowed to be casual poster expressing a little distaste for one of the contributing factors to the downfall of a series you invested some time in? I don't care if I piss people off. I just want to post what I'm feeling, what I'm thinking, whatever damn well occurs to me at any given time. Although I do appreciate a response in whatever form it may come.

Anyway, I was told the lyrics/songs were what they were basing the story off of. I don't think that's worked out very well if that's the case. Especially the parts that didn't have anything to do with the stupid love triangle.

Therefore the one who wrote the damn music is at fault, just as it's the fault of the director for being a co-conspirator with that hack.

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

So you're not allowed to be casual poster expressing a little distaste for one of the contributing factors to the downfall of a series you invested some time in? I don't care if I piss people off. I just want to post what I'm feeling, what I'm thinking, whatever damn well occurs to me at any given time. Although I do appreciate a response in whatever form it may come.

Oops, I think someone got mad. Trolling 101, don't fall victim to your own game.

In any case, I rethought my post as you were replying and I suppose you responded to the un-edited version. You can re-read it but I guess it not that much more different from the un-edited one.

But to answer your question, its okay to be a casual poster and express distaste when you feel like it. But might I also add that posting on a discussion board isn't the same as IM'ing simple ideas. If you're going to post something, especially something extremely subjective, do it with a bit of forethought and basis first.

Anyway, I was told the lyrics/songs were what they were basing the story off of. I don't think that's worked out very well if that's the case. Especially the parts that didn't have anything to do with the stupid love triangle.

Therefore the one who wrote the damn music is at fault, just as it's the fault of the director for being a co-conspirator with that hack.

There you go! You've just taken the first step! You might just be getting the hang of it. In that case I'll get into discussion now.

About the music, I don't quite agree with you. The music of Macross F seemed to be written to fit the characters... their thoughts, their feelings and so forth (which Yoko Kanno did a pretty good job with). With that idea, the music only serves to complement the storyline and characters... as opposed to be the driving force. That being said, SK was still behind the reigns of what direction the story went.

If there's anyone to blame for the series fall, blame Shouji Kawamori. Even knowing the 25 Episode cap, he still cut it close and left us with a rushed ending. The music and Yoko Kanno were just victims of this failure.

[kujoe]

Indeed Alto regards both as his "wings."

While that's open to interpretation, that much is indeed clear to Alto, but unfortunately not so with the Sheryl and Ranka it seems. At the very least, they choose to be friendly rivals in the end. Perhaps one can go as far as to claim that Ranka's declaration of challenge to Sheryl is actually her own way of implicitly agreeing to the triangle, but I would rather not deeply overread into that. It doesn't help that latter episodes are arguably leaning onto one side more than the other until episode 25.

I don't think it's not the idea itself that draws criticism, but rather this sense of expectations not being met, or being "trolled," in other words. It raises more questions as much it provides closure for others.

On the other hand, with Macross being Macross, I think that things don't always have to spelled out clearly. We know that Myung loves Isamu more, but all we get is a final shot of her singing with Isamu right after he gets out of his fighter. We don't know what happens to Minmay, and co. at the end, nor do we know how Misa and Hikaru's relationship goes when they leave. Do Max and Millia get reconciled after the events of Macross 7? They seem to be getting back together, but nothing is revealed regarding the future either. And don't even get me started on Basara, Mylene and Gamlin. The story gives the main idea, and that's it.

Even if the triangle won't be completely resolved in the movie (in the way that others are hoping for), I think the character development and drama in the latter episodes are enough in the greater scheme of things. For me, it's more than enough that a lot of those are leaning towards Sheryl. That doesn't have to be spelled out for me.

[lars18th]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

If there's anyone to blame for the series fall, blame Shouji Kawamori. Even knowing the 25 Episode cap, he still cut it close and left us with a rushed ending. The music and Yoko Kanno were just victims of this failure.

Clearly you must not be part of the whopping 70% who rated this series very highly.
I "blame" Shouji Kawamori for being the genius who redefined what is today known as anime thanks to his work on the original Macross 25 years ago.
I also blame him for taking everything to the next level with this awesome series. I haven't seen epic space battles like these in years... and thats in any medium.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by lars18th

I also blame him for taking everything to the next level with this awesome series. I haven't seen epic space battles like these in years... and thats in any medium.

I quite frankly have not seen such an energetic and epic space battle like this one, period.

That being said, the series only fault is its inability to resolve the love triangle, which many of us invested a lot of our emotions into. Unfortunately, as audiences, we do have our preferences.

- Tak