(L) Arpeggio of Blue Steel (Aoki Hagane no Arpeggio)

[Tenzen12]

1. Any recap episode would be "trainwrekish" if you consider it as standalone work. It's trying compress far greater content into very little time afterall. It doesn't metter if it try go for anime or manga version (plus implementation of setokai means lot of new (very compressed) content eitherway)

2. It's noteworthy that advice Gunzou gave to Iona is repeating advice she did gave him before...

3. Don't worry as long as you are able write anything worth of agreeing (like your evalution of DeGilga post), I don't have problem doing so. It would be great improvement if it didn't happened only once per blue moon.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

^
1. Evangelion: Death & Rebirth is a pretty good recap movie which makes better comparison to Ars Nova recap movie than Rozen Maiden's recap episode which only 20-25-minutes long.

2. Yeah, it is. But that doesn't invalidate my opinion.

3. Spoken like a true elitist.

[Tenzen12]

1. Obviously movie will have more time for recap ( so yeah D&R is better in that metter), but NGE one was was still obviously all over place due it's recap nature. Definitely not something that would be noteworthy as standalone work.

Reason for using RM should be obvious from context: it's recap of original work to cover differences between medias (and with setokai present it can hardly be considered as Ars Nova recap.

2. Right it doesn't. But it render void only argument you used to back it up: that "she received advice".Also word seems imply it gives such impression in general (which is point I disagree) not not your personal one.

3. Well if you mean my belive that your reasoning is inferior, yeah that's true story. But once again I will stop here and grant you rights on last of offensive remark. You are in lead in that metter btw.

[DerGilga]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Spoiler for space:

1) You are misunderstanding context here, she doesn't call it double edged sword just because she feels emotions or as mere critique . It's her fully realising all aspect (both good and bad) of having mental models. No driver can win race without being aware of quirks of their car, possibility of loosing control over it is something pro HAVE TO take in consideration if he want win ther race and that's what Kongou doing right now.

2) Questioning other MM decisions is Kongou strong point actualy as well proof of flexible mind, (same goes for considering other ships input when making decissions). She is critical and pragmatic, but unreasonable and as result she is also one of most genre savvy MM out there.

3) I-401 indeed could just run away, but what they need is not that, but break through blockade instead and her 3D printer makes it far more difficult. Plus her plan heavily depend on protection from other ships and capability of their MM, without these she wouldn't be able utillise this tactic in first place.

4) for "Hyuuga, Nagato & Yamato >> Kongou", compared to others Kongou is youngest and thus least experienced, that said if it were just fleet to fleet battle I am would bet Kongou would win over Nagato and make Hyuuga run for her money at least. Kongou is pretty much natural enemy of opponents depending heavily on"creativity", especialy as she doesn't waste by this aspect on unecessarily ploys and keep whole thing simple... and brutal.

1) Kongou already won the race because she isn't on the bottom of the ocean right now. Why do you think she is referring to mental models in general and not the battle she is participating right now? Her monolog implies the later for me.

2) I have sadly no idea what your talking about or referring to. Could you name some manga examples?

3) 3D-printer Kongou cannot create new ships. She has to summon the cores from her fleet, which she split into the hunt and the blockade fleet. By continuing to summon cores the hunter fleet becomes stronger while the blockade fleet becomes weaker. To make her plan work she has to weaken the blockade. So how does the 3d printer plan makes breaking through the blockade harder when the blockade itself will become weaker? I honestly don't see it.
Also if your plan needs are 'neutral' observer to interfere to work in the first place your plan sucks.

4) You say that Kongou is the least experienced, but then say she would still win over Nagato & Hyuuga? The comments from Zordan Stark and Chihaya Shouzou imply Nagato to be a very strong opponent. Also she is a delta core while Kongou isn't. Hyuuga lived around humans now for a while. 400 & 402 comments and Takao's battle showed us how experiencing humans is a huge boost to the tactics of mental models. So why would Hyuuga lose in a fleet battle, where tactics are of most importance?
And being the natural enemy of 'creativity', do you have an example? In this battle she has lost to Iona's 'creativity' 10 chapters ago. She 'lost' to Gunzou's 'creativity' at Iwo Jima. Also the manga permantly reminds us how the lack of 'creativity' is the Achilles heel of the fog. I would even say that this battle is showing how the old fog, without humans, is way inferior to a new fog, with humans.


Another point:
This whole battle has to open Kongou's eyes on how incompetent the fog is without humans. On one side there are 2 battleships(37kt) plus one fleet flagship equipment(which looks massive), 4 heavy cruiser(13kt) and a number of destroyers and submarines against one modified submarine(7kt) with a very small and young human crew. And it isn't totally one-sided, which I actually expected it to be at the beginning, but fierce battle with both sides having loses. If a fog ship would need advertising on how great a human crew is, this battle would be it. Imagine how strong a battleship(70kt) with a larger and older human crew would be.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

1. Obviously movie will have more time for recap ( so yeah D&R is better in that metter), but NGE one was was still obviously all over place due it's recap nature. Definitely not something that would be noteworthy as standalone work.

Reason for using RM should be obvious from context: it's recap of original work to cover differences between medias (and with setokai present it can hardly be considered as Ars Nova recap.

2. Right it doesn't. But it render void only argument you used to back it up: that "she received advice".Also word seems imply it gives such impression in general (which is point I disagree) not not your personal one.

3. Well if you mean my belive that your reasoning is inferior, yeah that's true story. But once again I will stop here and grant you rights on last of offensive remark. You are in lead in that metter btw.

^
1. Wanna know some successful recap movies with additional materials? Lo and behold: Mobile Suit Gundam movies (3 movies compressing 42-43 episodes), Zeta Gundam movies (3 movies compressing 50 episodes), Evangelion 1.0: You are (not) Alone (compressing early episodes of NGE before Asuka appears), The 08th MS Team: Miller's Report, Gundam 0083: Afterglow of Zeon, Gundam SEED & Destiny Special Edition, and some others. Also, Ars Nova recap doesn't have to be a noteworthy standalone movie (I never said that), just be a good recap movie like my examples above.

2. The "she receive advise" is not an argument, but something that give me impression. Impression doesn't need valid back-up. People can get impression that someone is smart from the way s/he dress or talk. Of course, that's not always true or correct, but that's the nature of impression. So your "the advise originated from Iona" does not void anything I said.

3. In lead of offense? My first reply to you "It's nice to see that you can still agree with something that I said instead of being total contrarian just for the sake of it." is actually a compliment because I compare it to certain other members who continuously offend me (see previous page).

EDIT:

Originally Posted by DerGilga

Imagine how strong a battleship(70kt) with a larger and older human crew would be.

You mean "more experienced" crew, right? Because "older" doesn't always mean "wiser" or "smarter" .

[DerGilga]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

^
You mean "more experienced" crew, right? Because "older" doesn't always mean "wiser" or "smarter" .

Point taken.

[Tenzen12]

>DerGilga> I am currently on my cellphone, which is not exactly best suited for long post. I promise I will adress it later (though it mright not be sooner than tomorrow.

>Obelisk> first of all I owe you my apology. I was called contrarian not long ago and am rather oversensitive about It because that I misread your post. I am sorry.

-For recaps, I do think good recap movie is oxymoron, it just happen some are better than others. For New content, setokai rise nnumber of characters by one third, in story that heavily depend on Kongou getting completely abandoned. It can't have much to do with Ars Nova as we know.
-For impressions. Again, I did sat that I disagree that "it seems" she is not on that level. It seems and "it seeme to you" are two different things.

Ps: contrarian for sake of itself is redudant. Doing it for sake itself is fundamental part of being contrarian.

[Velsy]

I've started reading this story recently and found somehow I have become interested in it. I did start reading it unsure if I would like it or not, but finding the concept of the ships having andriods or in this case worded as mental models to be an interesting idea. While I am only 40 or so chapters in or so, so far. I sorta have some minor questions out of curiosity.

1, Early on in the manga, when Takao was confronted by 400 and 402. It didn't seem like they knew who the crew of 401 was. But then started throwing Gouzos name around because he was the son of someone who joined the FOG. So it become confusing. Did they pull the intel from the Tactical link network from Ionas data, or did they somehow know beforehand ? Later on you find out both Gouzos dad and Yamato want him killed. But this scene kinda feels like a mess.

2, Takao just lost to 2501, which means her ship is gone. So say if they do somehow recover her, is she going to be a dead weight character now ? I've liked Takao very much, probably the most interesting characters so far as a mental model (actually probably closely tied with Maya or Kongou for similar reasons ) So the thought of it has kinda take the wind out of the sails. In Hyuugas case, I can understand their fight happened before the story and its revealed enough information to paint the picture of thier battle. Since then she became the the 2nd cpu(?) in assisting Iona and seems really good in ship repair/maintenance. Plus it mentioned she was flagship like Kangou and Yamato, So her processing power is top notch.

So there's really no place for Takao now if shes no longer a ship?. I really wanted to see her act as a ship under Gouzous command. I was really interested by how crazy she became from her first encounter with the 401. That crazyness was leading to her improvement. Cores simply cant be installed into a new ship can they ? (well I dont understand yet how they even became high tech ships in the first place :s) But then that would be bad if the enemy could easily do that.

3- The Fog.... I dont get them anymore, Its been told that both His father and Yamato want Gouzou dead. And yeah, the're certainly trying or maybe not <.<. As what 402 just did didnt really make much sense as a fog ship loyal to Yamato >< especially when 401 was within reach. Then the 2501, had game set and match over 401, Then he let them go? not sink them ? Because he wants to fight them again?. Are they killing him or not O_o

So am I right to say the fog has infighting between 3 factions ? His father, Yamato and then theres Kongou. His father and Yamato are definitely scheming. Thought Kongou seems she would be the true leader whos staying true to the fogs ideals. Is this pretty much whats happening in the fog.

[Tenzen12]

2.Well Yamato knows and thus it's not surprising submarine sisters that are her direct subordinates get to know either.

2.whether she get her ship depend on Yamato benevolence, but she is currently hanging around some key Intel and Takao showed on Iwo jima how much she can do even without ship. There is no need worry.

3. Neither Yamato nor Shouzou truly want Gunzou dead...but yeah Zordan was just fooling around with him, because curiosity.

There various factions, Nagato has own too and there are some new factions further in story. As for Kongou she is not really leader type, nor interested in inner strifes.

[kagato3]

It was implied that Shouzou knew his son wasn't dead because of how Yamato was acting which implies that had he died very bad things would happen and the fact she looks identical to someone Gunzou was close to it is clear she doesn't want him dead.

Spoiler for stuff:

In fact it is somewhat implied that Iona is doing all of this on Yamato's orders

[Velsy]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Takao showed on Iwo jima how much she can do even without ship. There is no need worry.

3. Neither Yamato nor Shouzou truly want Gunzou dead...but yeah Zordan was just fooling around with him, because curiosity.

Well it seemed like Zordan came from Shouzous fleet to sink him, and either 400 or 402 ( I get confused from the both of them) told Takao to kill him specifically if she found them. Which I thought was an interesting fact to the story. But then it does get weirder when it turns out Yamato looks like a dead girl he knew.

I wasn't going to ask this at first since I decided I dont have enough information on it myself yet. But I basically came to the conclusion so far. Yamato has taken the form of this dead girl. Or Amaha has been a mental model all along. If the later, which is what I am leaning on. If I start painting the picture from all the little bits of information I have gather so far. It feels like something dirty did happen at facility 4. I also get the feeling the masked guy is not telling Gouzou something important. I reckon hes wearing a mask to cover the burn scars to his face too. So yeah, adding the reference 400(2) said to kill Gouzou, then add in the disaster for facility 4 along with the death of 50 or so talented naval recruits. Thats the picture I am getting for now <.< But as yous mention Yamato doesn't want Gouzou killed? well its something I dont know about yet. which is fine, since Im not really up to the latest chapter yet.

As for Takao, well it showed what Hyuuga could do, as a flagship core. But Takao seems she'd wont be as interesting and useful without a ship. Guess I'll have to get over it and look forward to the next ship that reacts similar to Takao and they could win over.

Originally Posted by kagato3

It was implied that Shouzou knew his son wasn't dead because of how Yamato was acting which implies that had he died very bad things would happen and the fact she looks identical to someone Gunzou was close to it is clear she doesn't want him dead.

Spoiler for stuff:

In fact it is somewhat implied that Iona is doing all of this on Yamato's orders

Well, one of the most mysterious things to this story which has me most interested is why Iona is operating with the humans. Why did a fog ship leave the fog command to serve humans, specifically asking gouzou to become its captain. I am thinking it may have a slim chance at something to do with the Admiral code. But if shes under orders to do this, well it certainly would take the wind out this mystery. I was intrigued by it thinking it was on her own "free will".

But well if its hinted like that and shes still under Yamatos orders. keh what a let down <.< But if Yamato isn't truely trying to kill him, even tho its weird as she was most concerned loosing ships to 401 in the earlier chapters. It can make sense as Iona being once commanded by Yamato (um, still is in this case).

Anyway thanks for giving me some answers, hopefully keep reading this and see how it goes.

oh and something funny, whenever I hear the word Blue Steel. I am remembered of .... Ben Stiller O_o

[DerGilga]

Originally Posted by Velsy

... Or Amaha has been a mental model all along...

With all information given sofar this indeed seems to be case. As a matter of fact, it seems so obvious that you have to wonder if the authors are trying to mislead the readers. Regarding the masked guy, Oribe Sou, he wore the mask already befor the fire. Also I think somewhere it's stated he has to wear it because of allergy/health issues.

... I was intrigued by it thinking it was on her own "free will"...

It is. There is a Drama CD about Iona's and Gunzou's first meeting. Her orders were 'go to him and evaluate his abilities'. Everthing after that seems to be on her own free will. Yamato also cherish creativity and independence of individual mental models a lot. My understanding of Yamato's and Iona's relation ship is that technically she is still under Yamato's control. But Yamato simply isn't giving any order.

[Tenzen12]

>DerGilga>

Spoiler for for space:

Originally Posted by DerGilga

1) Kongou already won the race because she isn't on the bottom of the ocean right now. Why do you think she is referring to mental models in general and not the battle she is participating right now? Her monolog implies the later for me.

I would like say race doesn't end until I-401 is sunk, but that would be accurate, actualy it doesn't end until fleet of fog fullfil their mission (whatever it is) or until humanity completely give up on sea. and whole that monologue is actualy pretty obvious follow up of issues she was concerned from moment she was introduced.

2) I have sadly no idea what your talking about or referring to. Could you name some manga examples?

-After Takao got fended, she didn't sent just stronger force, which would be usual approach, but actualy sent pretty much everything that would make it here in time, including herself and her escort. If not for Kirishima reckless ambitions I doubt I-401 would make it away in one piece.

- she refused Nagato offer of ships, probably because she doesn't trust her (or because she don't like her plotting personality), which is very good choice if you ask me.
-She refused understimate I-401 despite heavy damage it recieved.

3) 3D-printer Kongou cannot create new ships. She has to summon the cores from her fleet, which she split into the hunt and the blockade fleet. By continuing to summon cores the hunter fleet becomes stronger while the blockade fleet becomes weaker. To make her plan work she has to weaken the blockade. So how does the 3d printer plan makes breaking through the blockade harder when the blockade itself will become weaker? I honestly don't see it.
Also if your plan needs are 'neutral' observer to interfere to work in the first place your plan sucks.

I don't know much about sea routes around Japan (nor any other), but considering that Kongou fortified herself in that spot expecting Gunzou showing up AND that I-401 actualy did imply that either they are adrenaline addicts with death wish or simply doesn't have choice but going through this spot. Plus pretty much every single ship around Kongou is twice as fast as I-401 so there is no much chance she get away.

4) You say that Kongou is the least experienced, but then say she would still win over Nagato & Hyuuga? The comments from Zordan Stark and Chihaya Shouzou imply Nagato to be a very strong opponent. Also she is a delta core while Kongou isn't. Hyuuga lived around humans now for a while. 400 & 402 comments and Takao's battle showed us how experiencing humans is a huge boost to the tactics of mental models. So why would Hyuuga lose in a fleet battle, where tactics are of most importance?
And being the natural enemy of 'creativity', do you have an example? In this battle she has lost to Iona's 'creativity' 10 chapters ago. She 'lost' to Gunzou's 'creativity' at Iwo Jima. Also the manga permantly reminds us how the lack of 'creativity' is the Achilles heel of the fog. I would even say that this battle is showing how the old fog, without humans, is way inferior to a new fog, with humans.

What are you talking about? I never said Hyuuga would loose. As for Nagato I made noted pretty specific condition under whose I belive she would get defeated: In direct "fleet to fleet combat". It's true we don't have any data about her combat ability, aside she is flagship, but we can make some asumption based on her personality (how accurate it's completely different metter). She is schemer who prefer keep everthing elegant while have other people do dirty job for her. She will be difinitely extremly good tactician, but especialy because that it's unlikely she would go single-mindely full out less actualy put herself at risk unless stakes are favoring her a lot. another thing is she doesn't seems to be exactly fond of her subordinates showing iniciative because that Kongou fleet is probably more flexible on individual level and prepared deal with unexpected moves.

Another point:
This whole battle has to open Kongou's eyes on how incompetent the fog is without humans. On one side there are 2 battleships(37kt) plus one fleet flagship equipment(which looks massive), 4 heavy cruiser(13kt) and a number of destroyers and submarines against one modified submarine(7kt) with a very small and young human crew. And it isn't totally one-sided, which I actually expected it to be at the beginning, but fierce battle with both sides having loses. If a fog ship would need advertising on how great a human crew is, this battle would be it. Imagine how strong a battleship(70kt) with a larger and older human crew would be.

Do you realise we are talking about Iona, who was almost on Gunzou level even two years ago and from that time she collect huge ammount of XP? If this battle proves something it's competence of fog being able fight her. Even Iona herself noted she got caught off guard (with Ashigara-Atago combination it was actulay second time in single battle) by speed they learn and improve. Not mention battle did
became completely one sided once flagship equipment was finally deployed.

As for crew itself, they serve mostly like cheap labor doing stuff MM could do itself so it can concentrate on other stuff, with only exception being commander, but number of captains who can actualy best mental models are abysmal.

[DerGilga]

>Tenzen12

Spoiler for long text:

1)

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

I would like say race doesn't end until I-401 is sunk, but that would be accurate, actualy it doesn't end until fleet of fog fullfil their mission (whatever it is) or until humanity completely give up on sea. and whole that monologue is actualy pretty obvious follow up of issues she was concerned from moment she was introduced.

I agree it is better to say the race is over when I-401 is sunk. But the only reason she still is in the race are the mental models. I don't see how the monologue is a pretty obvious follow up. The monologue suggests to me she is referring to the current battle and not the whole manga.


2)

-After Takao got fended, she didn't sent just stronger force, which would be usual approach, but actualy sent pretty much everything that would make it here in time, including herself and her escort. If not for Kirishima reckless ambitions I doubt I-401 would make it away in one piece.

Fair point. This does indeed show she takes her job seriously. But doesn't Kirishima's case show that Kongou isn't very critical when it comes to other mental models. She accepted Kirishima's explanation regarding not using the rest of the fleet or why she doesn't bring back Makie to the fleet later.

- she refused Nagato offer of ships, probably because she doesn't trust her (or because she don't like her plotting personality), which is very good choice if you ask me.

No. All what you can conclude from this is, that she refused Nagato' offer. She even gives a reason why she doesn't need Nagato's help. She later listens to Nagato's advice concerning Makie and using humans in general. She also trust Nagato to look over the patrol fleet when she starts to hunt Iona personally. This shows to me that she has at least some trust in Nagato.

-She refused understimate I-401 despite heavy damage it recieved.

She doesn't underestimate her enemy which is a strong point of Kongou.


3)

I don't know much about sea routes around Japan (nor any other), but considering that Kongou fortified herself in that spot expecting Gunzou showing up AND that I-401 actualy did imply that either they are adrenaline addicts with death wish or simply doesn't have choice but going through this spot. Plus pretty much every single ship around Kongou is twice as fast as I-401 so there is no much chance she get away.

When did Iona mentioned that they have to go through that spot? Given that the spot they have to escape through would be the connection between the Japanese sea and the pacific ocean. Also you previously agreed with me, that they can run away from Kongou. Now you'r seem to disagree. Could Iona run away or could not?


4)

What are you talking about? I never said Hyuuga would loose. As for Nagato I made noted pretty specific condition under whose I belive she would get defeated: In direct "fleet to fleet combat". It's true we don't have any data about her combat ability, aside she is flagship, but we can make some asumption based on her personality (how accurate it's completely different metter). She is schemer who prefer keep everthing elegant while have other people do dirty job for her. She will be difinitely extremly good tactician, but especialy because that it's unlikely she would go single-mindely full out less actualy put herself at risk unless stakes are favoring her a lot. another thing is she doesn't seems to be exactly fond of her subordinates showing iniciative because that Kongou fleet is probably more flexible on individual level and prepared deal with unexpected moves.

Sorry English isn't my mother tongue so I misunderstood you.
a) Are you saying, that because Nagato would not choose a brute force methode she would lose or would not engage combat? In a fleet combat I give the odds to the 'extremly good tactician'. But maybe I'm misunderstanding you again, sorry.
b) Nagato said, she would maybe punish Atago, who disobeyed her orders, but later said she was glad to send her and actually likes that girl very much. She also seems perfectly ok with Zuikaku, who belongs to Nagato's fleet, visiting humans on her own. I would say she is perfectly ok with initiative, as long her orders aren't violated. And when her orders are disobeyed, she seems to be ok with it, if a good explanations is provided.
c) Assuming that the original three fleets were more or less the same size, 1/3 of Kongou's and Nagato's fleet previously belonged to Hyuuga. So these forces should cancel eachother out. Regarding the original fleets of Kongou and Nagato, there is not one confirmed ship, with the exeption of Nagato of course, which belonged to her original fleet. So how do you conclude that Kongou's original fleet is more flexible on an individual level?
d) Is Kongou the natural enemy of 'creativity'?

5)

Do you realise we are talking about Iona, who was almost on Gunzou level even two years ago and from that time she collect huge ammount of XP? If this battle proves something it's competence of fog being able fight her. Even Iona herself noted she got caught off guard (with Ashigara-Atago combination it was actulay second time in single battle) by speed they learn and improve. Not mention battle did became completely one sided once flagship equipment was finally deployed.

Yes, so? I never said a human captain, only crew. Also are you suggesting Iona is now above Gunzou, the hero of the manga, who is permanently praised by others and often compared with his great father? Also how did Iona got her XP?
Again:
-2 battleships(37kt) + one fleet flagship equipment
-4 heavy cruisers(13kt)
-a number of destroyers and submarines
VS
-1 modified submarine(4kt <- got the number wrong last time)

In one attack move they lost 2 heavy cruisers and nearly lost a battleship, if it wasn't for the help of a neutral observer. Once the fleet flagship equipment was installed, Iona did not attacked with the purpose of sinking a ship, but to get intel on Kongou. She successfully entered the center of the enemy forces and nearly escaped unharmed, if it wasn't for badass Myoukou. Also Kongou said I-401 is still a serious threat, jet you say the battle did become one sided. Is Kongou wrong? Also what behaviour or results would you consider incompetent with the above described fleet composition?

As for crew itself, they serve mostly like cheap labor doing stuff MM could do itself so it can concentrate on other stuff, with only exception being commander, but number of captains who can actualy best mental models are abysmal.

This battle is disagreeing with you. The lattest chapter is disagreeing with you. Iona, Yamato, Kongou, Nagato & Hiei are disagreeing with you. All are mentioning how a human crew greatly improve the performenced of a fog ship. Also are you saying, that only the best of the best could outperform Maya and Ashigara in tactics? Given the small sample size of captains with fog ships in this manga, how can you say that the number of potential good captains is abysmal?

[Velsy]

Another things thats been on my mind.

Why did they need to modify humans (genetic engineer?) just to have someone be president of northern Japan? I dont get the thought patten behind that. Isnt that what politicians are for ?

oh and the other thing. Can Japan really not produce anymore of the the Vibration Warheads? I see why they are trying to send the specifics to USA to "mass" produce. But can Japan really only make 5 of them? To which they only have 1 left.

I understand they're blockaded, but it really has that much effect . (I lol'd at Brittan for giving up, heh they even beat France to the White flag this time).

Tho I can say, luckily the FOG dont seem to have possess planes and Aircraft carriers. Then the situation would be fare more worse. Worse than being blockaded.

[00Zy99]

Originally Posted by Velsy

Another things thats been on my mind.

Why did they need to modify humans (genetic engineer?) just to have someone be president of northern Japan? I dont get the thought patten behind that. Isnt that what politicians are for ?

Unknown.

oh and the other thing. Can Japan really not produce anymore of the the Vibration Warheads? I see why they are trying to send the specifics to USA to "mass" produce. But can Japan really only make 5 of them? To which they only have 1 left.

Rare materials? Sensitive assembly equipment?

I understand they're blockaded, but it really has that much effect . (I lol'd at Brittan for giving up, heh they even beat France to the White flag this time).

It's been a whole generation.

France:

A) Has more agricultural land, and higher quality.
B) Is on a continent and can therefore trade with other powers.
C) Is involved in a land war somewhere in Europe (as is everyone else aside from Britain).

Spoiler:

Tho I can say, luckily the FOG dont seem to have possess planes and Aircraft carriers. Then the situation would be fare more worse. Worse than being blockaded.

The Fog DO possess airplanes and carriers. But Fog planes don't have Klein Fields due to their small size, and perform poorly due to having the shape of WWII airplanes. Between this and the total lack of tactics, the entire Fog air force got shot down in the opening weeks of the war 17 years ago, even before the Great Battle. The carriers have been sitting around doing nothing ever since.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

>Obelisk> first of all I owe you my apology. I was called contrarian not long ago and am rather oversensitive about It because that I misread your post. I am sorry.

That's okay. Apology accepted.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

-For recaps, I do think good recap movie is oxymoron, it just happen some are better than others. For New content, setokai rise nnumber of characters by one third, in story that heavily depend on Kongou getting completely abandoned. It can't have much to do with Ars Nova as we know.

My problem with Rozen Maiden recap (which you used as example) is that it doesn't really has flow in it. It's just presenting plot points *bam, bam, bam* like the lifeless machinery filling soda bottles in factories. The pacing is ruined and there's no emotional investment to the story that unfolds. On the other hands, the good examples that I mentioned above has actual beats and flow, the pacing is good (though still naturally fast because it's a recap) but the story is still comprehensible and the audience have time to invest with the plot and character-arcs presented in front of them. So no, I don't want Ars Nova movie 1 to be like Rozen Maiden recap. I want it to be a lot better than that. That's all I want to say.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

-For impressions. Again, I did sat that I disagree that "it seems" she is not on that level. It seems and "it seeme to you" are two different things.

Are you seriously going into semantics & grammar discussion of the difference between "it seems" and "it seems to me"? We're in a discussion board. I think it's obvious when I (the writer) said "it seems", the impression comes to me and it's for me (it's a subjective matter to begin with). Disagreing with my impression is cool and all, but my usage of "it seems" is still correct in the context of a discussion board. As far as my experience posting in various English forums and discussion boards goes, nobody that I talked to ever had any problem whenever I say "it seems". They instantly understand exactly what I meant and responded well accordingly.

Originally Posted by Velsy

Why did they need to modify humans (genetic engineer?) just to have someone be president of northern Japan? I dont get the thought patten behind that. Isnt that what politicians are for ?

From the conversation between Makoto, Haruna & Kirishima during the dinner, it is hinted a little bit that Prof. Osakabe's "children" are made to rule to make the government as clean as possible and not corrupt since they don't have many feelings ("hate" is one of many feelings they don't have, yet they can still joke and be happy). If you want a comparison, they're like the Bioroids from Shiro Masamune's Appleseed manga/anime. Basically, a "better" human because they think more positively.

Originally Posted by Velsy

oh and the other thing. Can Japan really not produce anymore of the the Vibration Warheads? I see why they are trying to send the specifics to USA to "mass" produce. But can Japan really only make 5 of them? To which they only have 1 left.

Well, that's the fact presented in the manga which I think it's a fair game. We all know that Japan in general is lacking natural resources compared to other countries like Sounteast Asia, America, Africa, etc. And I assume the trials and errors during the making of the VW kinda sucked them dry.

Originally Posted by Velsy

Tho I can say, luckily the FOG dont seem to have possess planes and Aircraft carriers. Then the situation would be fare more worse. Worse than being blockaded.

I wanted to say "I won't spoil it for you since you've only read to chap 40 or so, but after reading some latest chapters, you'll be surprised" but I see that 00idiot above already spoiled it for you .

[00Zy99]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

From the conversation between Makoto, Haruna & Kirishima during the dinner, it is hinted a little bit that Prof. Osakabe's "children" are made to rule to make the government as clean as possible and not corrupt since they don't have many feelings ("hate" is one of many feelings they don't have, yet they can still joke and be happy). If you want a comparison, they're like the Bioroids from Shiro Masamune's Appleseed manga/anime. Basically, a "better" human because they think more positively.

Given the notorious level of corruption and politicking in Japanese government historically, today, and as seen in the manga, I'd say this pretty much sums it up.

Well, that's the fact presented in the manga which I think it's a fair game. We all know that Japan in general is lacking natural resources compared to other countries like Sounteast Asia, America, Africa, etc. And I assume the trials and errors during the making of the VW kinda sucked them dry.

Yeah, this.

I wanted to say "I won't spoil it for you since you've only read to chap 40 or so, but after reading some latest chapters, you'll be surprised" but I see that 00idiot above already spoiled it for you .

Sorry, I'm not very good with spoilers. I can barely manage to multi-quote.

[Velsy]

Heh, I just realized my error. I just arrived at the chapter that brang in an aircraft carrier. It had no planes tho, which was just explained above anyway ^_^

But sitting around doing nothing seems like a good explanation,

Had to read through boring scenes with Haruna and that brat too <.<. Should just stay sunk >< . btw should I be asking why this little brat knows about the operation for 401 carrying the warhead to America ? They are not really trying to keep intel at low key are they ?

[00Zy99]

Originally Posted by Velsy

Had to read through boring scenes with Haruna and that brat too <.<. Should just stay sunk >< . btw should I be asking why this little brat knows about the operation for 401 carrying the warhead to America ? They are not really trying to keep intel at low key are they ?

I happen to LIKE Makie for the most part.

She's the one who DESIGNED the warhead, so she knows all about it. It's the reason she was engineered into being to begin with. It wasn't seen as much of a problem when they told her that I-401 was taking it to the US. The Fog had already figured out that much anyways.