Fate/ Series FanFiction Discussion

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

Any angst is good angst. Been getting so tired of reading the Sakura stuff that I need something new, crack or no Taiga would be a welcomed change.

Lay it on me. The more enjoyable the character the better the feeling when you run them through the angst winger.

Sadly, anything that I might have in mind that's Taiga-based will probably be delayed until I complete Rain, or at least get it far along enough that I know it'll be near the ending point. It's only one fic, but it's shaping up to be a complicated little piece of work right now.

[Moczo]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

...

Since when has my brand of angst been patented?

RadiantBeamTM: When that soul absolutely has to be crushed.

... That said, I don't know if I could handle Fuji-nee angst. Crack is fine, but, God, doesn't at least one character in this series deserve to be happy-go-lucky?

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Moczo

... That said, I don't know if I could handle Fuji-nee angst. Crack is fine, but, God, doesn't at least one character in this series deserve to be happy-go-lucky?

Lancer.

...Lancer x Fuji-nee?

[GlancingReverse]

Lancer's kinda required to be unhappy, since most of the time his master is Kotomine, who spreads unhappiness as a result of putting effort into existing.

[Arbitres]

Originally Posted by Moczo

RadiantBeamTM: When that soul absolutely has to be crushed.

... That said, I don't know if I could handle Fuji-nee angst. Crack is fine, but, God, doesn't at least one character in this series deserve to be happy-go-lucky?

Arbitres demands soul-crushing angst and zetsubou!

Who needs an actually stable character meant for comic relief and a sport of reprise from the varying madness and angst-bombs littering Fate/Stay Night? Not me.

Lancer.

...Lancer x Fuji-nee?

Hell, I'd ship it. Still there isn't anything I don't ship.... xD

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

But you could do it differently! With less heart-wrenching angst that leads to a deep and empathetic understanding of each other, and more explosions and general badassery. Archer/Rider would actually suit your style better, come to think of it. Just saying...

Originally Posted by Moczo

They fight crime?

Imagines Archer/Rider in a buddy cop story...

Archer: "I'm getting too old for this sh#t!"

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Aw, you're no fun. I promise I'll give her a happy ending to make up for it!

Originally Posted by Moczo

RadiantBeamTM: When that soul absolutely has to be crushed.

RadiantBeamAngstTM: When the soul has been crushed so thoroughly that a mercy kill is considered a happy ending?

... That said, I don't know if I could handle Fuji-nee angst.

Taiga angst? Well, if you take some crack theories that she had a crush on Kiritsugu...

Crack is fine, but, God, doesn't at least one character in this series deserve to be happy-go-lucky?

Mitsuzuri Ayako?

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Taiga angst? Well, if you take some crack theories that she had a crush on Kiritsugu...

Don't tempt me.

[Cherry_Lover]

Nice chapter, Mozco....

Originally Posted by Moczo

Ilya danced through the forest, humming an aimless little tune and smiling more widely than she thought she ever had in her whole life. Appropriate, given that she could not remember having ever had as much fun as she had this day.

Awwww....

This Ilya stuff is so cute....

Yet she couldn't bring herself to offer more than half-hearted protests that Rin shot down easily, precisely because Rin was associating with her even though she shouldn't. Because Rin was with her.

Because nee-san was by her side.

Again, awwww....

It's nice to see Rin managing to find an excuse to care for Sakura.

Oh, nee-san thinks something is wrong. Sakura thought happily as blackness began to creep in around the edges of her mind. She must not know this is a dream. Silly. Still, it's nice that she's worried...

Heh, lol.

It's kind of sad that Sakura simply can't comprehend the idea that her life could go right for once, though, to the point that she just assumes it's a dream....

Shirou would just have to miss some more school in order to be Sakura's personal slave for a little bit. Relaxing and ordering Shirou around always made Taiga feel healthier when she was under the weather or even just kind of felt like ordering Shirou around, so it would probably make Sakura feel better too.

Ah, yes, the old "everyone else must be like me" fallacy....

Oh, Taiga, you really should know better by now.

"Nee... san...?" The girl muttered softly in her sleep.

"Aaaaaaaaawwwww!" Taiga squealed. "Yeah, Fuji-nee is here! What a nice girl."

Sakura briefly frowned in her sleep, as though annoyed by something. Taiga did not notice.

Heh, lol, Taiga gets the wrong end of the stick yet again.

I guess Sakura will wake up thinking it was a dream after all....

In the kitchen, Shirou and Rin sat on opposite ends of the table, making a concerted effort to look at anything except each other. Shirou probably felt somewhat neglected as a result, but Rin was still getting all of the attention she could handle because Saber refused to take her eyes off the girl for a second.

"So. Archer is here, isn't he?" Shirou asked, deciding that something needed to be done to break the silence.

"Yes." Rin said calmly, without looking at him. "I'm not bringing him out, don't worry."

"You would be dead before the first arrow left the bow." Saber said.

"Yes, that's the big reason why I'm not bringing him out." Rin said.

Oh, Rin, why must you be so Tsundere...?

---------------------------------------------

Rin walked down the street towards her home, Archer invisibly by her side. "You placed it, right?" He asked.

"Of course. Before we ever walked in the door." Rin replied. "The gem is slipped into the lining of her coat. Unless she routinely stops to feel up every inch of her jacket she'll never notice it, and it should let me keep at least a bit of an eye on her even if she's inside another Magus's area of influence. I can't use it to check in too often or it will be noticed, but at least I'll know if anything major happens."

And, with that, Shinji's testicles start to ache in anticipation of what Rin will do to them next time he tries anything with Sakura....

"H-hey! It's just because she's close to Shinji and Emiya, that's all! I need every advantage I can get!" Rin said, blushing furiously. "If I'm going to have a shot at beating Emiya, I need to know as much as I can about him and his partner both! Sakura is just my... my spy, that's all! My pawn is what she is."

"Of course." Archer said, glad that she couldn't see his smirk while he was in astral form. "You're obviously not worried about her at all."

"... It's good that you recognize that." Rin said. Yes, she had heard the blatant sarcasm in his tone. She was choosing to ignore it, because...

Well, maybe she was a little bit worried. Not much!

Heh, nice excuse-making, Rin....

Night had fallen. The Material was dormant.

Have I told you how much I hate Zouken...?

Caster held him close, bearing him down to the floor. The weight of the... the body... was nothing to her, it was just that her knees were too weak to stand. Souichiro...sama...

He was... I... no.

No, no, no. Please, every god there ever was, please no... She thought, holding the still-warm body close, unconcerned with the blood drenching her robes. Please, please no. I'm sorry, Souichiro, I'm sorry, please, no, don't leave me...

Poor Caster... :'(

Yes, this was a creature of darkness, but so was Caster, moreso now than ever before. Souichiro-sama was dead. Her chance at happiness was gone. Not a hint of anything remotely positive remained in her heart; all she had left was pain, and bitterness, and, of course revenge.

Yes. Medea was very familiar with revenge. It was comforting, like an old friend's hand on her shoulder. She couldn't be happy, but vengeance would bring satisfaction, at the very least.

And, with that, Zouken's plans fall completely apart....

Such a tormented creature. Don't worry, I'm with you now. I will stay by your side for as long as you want... and once we know each other a bit better, perhaps you can do me a favor.

... ... ... stay with me...

Of course. Isn't that what friends are for?

Aww, the shadow has a friend....

I just hope Caster comes to realise who is really to blame for all of this.

Ladies and gentlemen... when you want to know when things went totally off the rails? This was the chapter.

Yeah....

If Caster can influence Sakura, then she can potentially seriously fuck things up for Zouken.

I do wonder, though, if this is a good or bad thing for Sakura. After all, Caster probably doesn't have any problems with her (she'll likely understand Sakura's situation enough to not blame her for the actions of the shadow, given that she herself has been used as a pawn in a similar way in her own life), but at the same time she isn't going to be above using Sakura as a pawn for her own advantage.

Also, given that Rule Breaker is gone without being seen by Shirou, I'm struggling to see how she can be freed from AM's grasp if she does turn Dark.

I took some obvious liberties with the Temple scene, and Zouken's summoning ritual was basically just Rin's with a few words changed/erased and some extra 'evil' added, but I think both turned out okay. Better than what Nasu told us of them, at least, which was 'next to nothing'. As always, if I made any genuine glaring errors, point 'em out and I'll correct them. Consider yourselves my unpaid proofreaders.

Well, the two should really be identical, except for some added stuff required to summon Assassin, because the ritual seems to be standardised (although, the one in FSN is different from the one in Zero, so...).

About the only thing I'm unhappy with is False Assassin. I had some great scenes in mind for him, but in the end I just couldn't find a place to fit them into the story. Sorry, Kojiro...

Yeah, as others have said, it's simply not possible to involve him in a HF-like story and retain any level of coherency to the plot, so don't worry about it.

This is a damn good fic. You're doing a pretty good job of characterising Sakura and Rin here, and Ilya seems pretty good. I am still opposed to the idea of an Ilya x Shirou pairing, though, because whilst I can see Ilya going for it, Shirou is not a lolicon.

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

Finally got to read the latest chapter this morning. All I can say is: Zouken, Zouken, Zouken, when you're conducting Master Plans, do not make the riskiest element of that plan dependent on third parties whom you do not control taking specific actions based on oblique hints, particularly when you know they've been fighting each other and are therefore weakened and inclined to wait and regroup rather than launch attacks!

Well, Zouken's entire plan necessarily relies on third parties, because they're the only way he can break Sakura.

But, yeah, it's nice to see his plan go horribly wrong already, and I look forward to seeing what Caster will come up with.

I love, of course, the fact that because Illya talked to Shirou early, and Shirou was his usual nice-guy self, Zouken's plans have already flamed out twice (losing Shinji being the first time--though that was pretty inevitable due to his general uselessness).

To be fair, I suspect that losing Shinji was actually part of Zouken's plan, because it allows him to get Sakura involved again (and also pisses Shinji off, resulting in him abusing Sakura and forcing her to stay with Shirou).

Originally Posted by Moczo

Yeah; even just looking at HF, Zouken is actually not a very good evil mastermind. His ultimate plan hinges on the thought that the girl he's been torturing for 10+ years will still do what he wants after he drives her homicidally insane and hands her boundless dark powers. Try to spot the flaw in there, I dare ya.

Actually, Zouken is a pretty good evil mastermind, he just has a strong tendency to overestimate the amount of control he has over people and events. Which, given that the people he's been controlling up to now have mostly been the Matou family, which seems to consist exclusively of Xanatos Suckers (Shinji, Byakuya and Kariya all fit into that category), is not really all that unreasonable. He just doesn't seem to realise that the Tohsaka family is made of stronger stuff....

Also, it's not really that unreasonable to expect that someone you've brutally tortured at every sign of defiance or independant thought for the last eleven years will just meekly follow your orders even when she doesn't have to. That's what usually happens in the case of abused children (they'll protect and obey their abuser even when they're free of their control, simply because they fear that the abuser will 'find out' and punish them), and Sakura has never shown any real signs of defiance (except for refusing to fight in the war, I suppose, but Zouken seems to have taken that as "Shinji bullied me into it, and I don't really want to fight" rather than "fuck you, grandfather, I'm not fighting in this stupid war").

Zouken's plans were indeed fucked up, but they were fucked up by Sakura. If he had had someone like Rin, she'd have actively defied him, and then would have been tortured into absolute compliance (or, else, he'd have eventually killed her when he couldn't find a way to make her useful and she became a danger to him), but Sakura just shut herself off and meekly obeyed his instructions until he told her to do things that she really didn't want to do, at which point she was able to stand up to him because he wasn't really expecting it and, by surrendering to him in most situations, she'd been able to protect enough of her mind to have the capacity to defy him when she wanted to.

Originally Posted by Tiresias

IRadiantBeamAngstTM: When the soul has been crushed so thoroughly that a mercy kill is considered a happy ending?

Honestly, I find it pretty hard to envisage anyone being able to crush Sakura's soul more throughly than it gets crushed in canon (especially if you include some of the bad ends...).

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Honestly, I find it pretty hard to envisage anyone being able to crush Sakura's soul more throughly than it gets crushed in canon (especially if you include some of the bad ends...).

I ask again: is that a challenge?

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

I ask again: is that a challenge?

No, no it's not....

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

No, no it's not....

I'll interpret it as one if you continue to think I can't crush Sakura's soul.

Speaking of which, just a brief update/announcement/whatever: after replaying a bit through HF and discussing it with Moczo, I've decided that I'm going to cut the third sex scene of the game from Rain and replace it with something else. I'm saying so now to hopefully avoid any backlash I'll get for it when I post the actual chapter, even if it's so far down the road at the moment that I can't even see it.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Don't tempt me.

Kiritsugu Emiya

[...]He became friends with - and had a crush on - Norikata's assistant, a local girl called Shirley who was four years older than him. [...]

[...]He met Fujimura Taiga sometime after, and took a liking to her due to her similarity to Shirley.[...]

Fujimura Taiga

[...]While in school, she developed a crush on Emiya Kiritsugu, and frequently stopped by his home to see him; the two eventually became friends,[...]

Y'know what? Make that a Kiritsugu AND Taiga angst instead

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! *Twirls Sinister Moustache*

[Moczo]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Awwww....

This Ilya stuff is so cute....



Again, awwww....

It's nice to see Rin managing to find an excuse to care for Sakura.

Yeah, fortunately, Ilya and Sakura are kind of easy to make cute. The latter only gets easier when Rin is around.

I was trying, by having these scenes back-to-back, to showcase their similar thought processes; it's for different reasons, but just the simplest little good things enter their lives and they're both right now happier than they've been since before the Fourth War. Which is actually really, really sad, but also... well... cute.

Heh, lol.

It's kind of sad that Sakura simply can't comprehend the idea that her life could go right for once, though, to the point that she just assumes it's a dream....

It's very sad. But when her life has basically never gone right, combined with extreme mana deprivation, it made sense she'd have a hard time grasping the concept.

Ah, yes, the old "everyone else must be like me" fallacy....

Oh, Taiga, you really should know better by now.


Heh, lol, Taiga gets the wrong end of the stick yet again.

I guess Sakura will wake up thinking it was a dream after all....

Taiga joins Shinji and Gilgamesh in the list of characters who are just a joy to write. Shinji lets me be as slimy as I want. Gilgamesh lets me say whatever crazy-ass thing I can think of and justify it with 'I'm the King, so it's true!'. Taiga's just fun.

Oh, Rin, why must you be so Tsundere...?

Why do fish swim? Why do birds fly? If she weren't Tsundere, she wouldn't be our Rin.

Poor Caster... :'(


And, with that, Zouken's plans fall completely apart....


Aww, the shadow has a friend....

I just hope Caster comes to realise who is really to blame for all of this.

If Caster can influence Sakura, then she can potentially seriously fuck things up for Zouken.

I do wonder, though, if this is a good or bad thing for Sakura. After all, Caster probably doesn't have any problems with her (she'll likely understand Sakura's situation enough to not blame her for the actions of the shadow, given that she herself has been used as a pawn in a similar way in her own life), but at the same time she isn't going to be above using Sakura as a pawn for her own advantage.

Like I said, this is the chapter where I really start to leave the rails, and Caster Alter is the first huge change. She is pissed off royally, she is plugged into the source of all evil, and figuring out who she should really be angry at is not beyond her abilities in any way, shape, or form. So yeah, Zouken is in a lot of trouble.

As for Sakura, I'll say that yes, Caster does have some level of influence over her, given that in a way Caster is now basically a part of her subconscious. Whether or not this ends up being good or bad for her... hmmm... depends on your perspective.

Well, the two should really be identical, except for some added stuff required to summon Assassin, because the ritual seems to be standardised (although, the one in FSN is different from the one in Zero, so...).

I assumed something along those lines... I only actually changed a few words throughout the whole ritual to make it sound a little less nice.

Yeah, as others have said, it's simply not possible to involve him in a HF-like story and retain any level of coherency to the plot, so don't worry about it.

Yeah...

It was a good scene, though. Maybe next time.

This is a damn good fic. You're doing a pretty good job of characterising Sakura and Rin here, and Ilya seems pretty good. I am still opposed to the idea of an Ilya x Shirou pairing, though, because whilst I can see Ilya going for it, Shirou is not a lolicon.

Well, thank you! I'm glad you're enjoying the story thus far. Getting the characters down was really the thing I was most worried about when I started this story, and it's good to see that I've gotten it so far.

Hee, couldn't resist adding your two cents at the end, huh? It's cool; I reply with my standard disclaimer: it'll happen if I feel it happening as I write. It's easy to make Ilya fall for Shirou, but the opposite takes some work, and if I feel like I'm not doing it well I won't do it. If it feels like it's going well to me, I will. Time will tell.

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

I'll interpret it as one if you continue to think I can't crush Sakura's soul.

Speaking of which, just a brief update/announcement/whatever: after replaying a bit through HF and discussing it with Moczo, I've decided that I'm going to cut the third sex scene of the game from Rain and replace it with something else. I'm saying so now to hopefully avoid any backlash I'll get for it when I post the actual chapter, even if it's so far down the road at the moment that I can't even see it.

You already know my thoughts on that subject. Whatever you replace it with, it can't really help but be an improvement. Ugh, it still ticks me off a little bit...

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Moczo

You already know my thoughts on that subject. Whatever you replace it with, it can't really help but be an improvement. Ugh, it still ticks me off a little bit...

Plus, not even considering that, I just don't know how well Shirou's lust and needs in that scene would translate over to Rin. So I'll just replace it with something else, like them just holding each other all night or whatever.

[Altima of the Gates]

Originally Posted by GlancingReverse

Lancer's kinda required to be unhappy, since most of the time his master is Kotomine, who spreads unhappiness as a result of putting effort into existing.

He certainly gets his share of buzzkill.



Fission Mailed.
Poor Lancer.

Plus, not even considering that, I just don't know how well Shirou's lust and needs in that scene would translate over to Rin. So I'll just replace it with something else, like them just holding each other all night or whatever.

Wait...what? I'm gonna be interested in what you have coming down the pike, but this is quite a shock.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates

Wait...what? I'm gonna be interested in what you have coming down the pike, but this is quite a shock.

It shouldn't be all that hard. Shirou isn't in the running to be Sakura's romantic interest in Rain anyway, and I've never thought very highly of the third sex scene in HF.

[Heroslayer]

Hi, new here.

Hmm, want to throw out ideas to see if they're good or not.

We see Shirou eventually become this 'hero' or not. Depending on the route this could mean different things. I want to see him training the next Hero. Old Shirou or middle aged Shirou training some OC (god I don't want to throw out an OC but I can't see any other option) to be an 'ally of justice'.

I'll try writing up a first chapter or a synopsis but I'm pretty new at this writing thing.

Also, god for some reason I can't help but want to see Shirou decently trained in Magecraft.

Spoiler for Shirou:

I could be wrong since I haven't played Heaven's Feel yet, but so far every time Shirou has Traced was after some sort of interaction with Archer. In Fate he had that conversation where Archer tells him to 'Imagine a weapon that can win' or something like that. And UBW is where he watches and assimilates Archer's abilities. So I don't want to see super powerful Shirou able to Trace and Project for no reason.

What if Shirou was trained properly and, this is what I haven't seen so far, is given Kiritsugu's Magic Crest. You can't tell me that Shirou with Innate Time Control doesn't have a lot of potential.

[Haak]

My opinion is that you'd have to think of a reason why Kiritsugu would do that, that follows his character. Afterall, there was a good reason why he didn't.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Heroslayer

Hi, new here.

Hmm, want to throw out ideas to see if they're good or not.

We see Shirou eventually become this 'hero' or not. Depending on the route this could mean different things. I want to see him training the next Hero. Old Shirou or middle aged Shirou training some OC (god I don't want to throw out an OC but I can't see any other option) to be an 'ally of justice'.

I'll try writing up a first chapter or a synopsis but I'm pretty new at this writing thing.

Also, god for some reason I can't help but want to see Shirou decently trained in Magecraft.

Spoiler for Shirou:

I could be wrong since I haven't played Heaven's Feel yet, but so far every time Shirou has Traced was after some sort of interaction with Archer. In Fate he had that conversation where Archer tells him to 'Imagine a weapon that can win' or something like that. And UBW is where he watches and assimilates Archer's abilities. So I don't want to see super powerful Shirou able to Trace and Project for no reason.

What if Shirou was trained properly and, this is what I haven't seen so far, is given Kiritsugu's Magic Crest. You can't tell me that Shirou with Innate Time Control doesn't have a lot of potential.

Well I don't know whether someone can inherit a Magic Crest, but I imagine a properly trained Shirou would not need to trace legendary weapons as often, since most of the time (especially against magi) he can just trace a gun with similar properties to Kiritsugu's Contender while not needing to worry about the lack of Origin Bullets due to his trace capability.

It's an interesting concept. Just keep in mind that Tohsaka Rin won't go even one kilometer near Magus Killer Emiya Shirou...

EDIT: One more thing. IIRC Kiritsugu himself would not be considered a decent magus, since he has little interest in magecraft aside from how to apply them at combat.

[Haak]

I thought Shirou was only good at tracing swords and anything else was too problematic?

(and I REALLY doubt Kiritsugu would let him go that path)