2011-09-02, 10:30 | Link #81 | |
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Artist
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Middle Way
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It...didn't hear Itachi's lecture? Nobody listens to me.
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2011-09-02, 11:17 | Link #82 | ||
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
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People who complain about Naruto doing the opposite of what Itachi said to him didn't read carefully that chapter where Itachi talks. Itachi didn't say that Naruto should not lead the battles, he said he should not fight alone. Naruto didn't fight alone in this chapter, he is fighting as the leading team member. At this point it's hard to understand why some people are angry, but maybe the reason is that they still can't accept that Naruto is stronger than Gaara and is far stronger than someone like Temari. |
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2011-09-02, 11:21 | Link #83 |
The First Rasengan!!
Join Date: Nov 2007
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whether a clone or not, or whether the speech was heard or not…this didnt read like a single handed victory for naruto to me.
Muu declared his jutsu was really fast, thus a quick opponent was needed to counter it. enter superspeed naruto to deal some damage, old man geezer immobilizes him, gaara seals him…thats the definition of teamwork. i expect him to work with temari as well…they are the only two wind users…they will work together
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2011-09-02, 12:23 | Link #84 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: in this dimension
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2011-09-02, 20:10 | Link #85 |
Wingedmercury
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California
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lol, you definitely have a point there aliasxn, except that I have this weird suspicion that Madara likes to just mess with people, you know? And honestly, it seemed like he wanted to kill off some of his own men until only the top remained- I'm not sure Madara really trusts anyone very fully besides Zetsu, whom he helped to create himself.
I see Madara as one of those evil villains who likes to move people around like pieces on a chess board; his main objective is not the bijuus, so to speak, but wrecking havoc and confusion. Anyway, that's just my opinion
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2011-09-03, 03:04 | Link #86 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Command center, the ship's bridge
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Perhaps if you were to try and view things objectively and place your bias for Naruto aside, I don't think it would be difficult to understand the readers' frustrations. I also don't think you should be dismissing legitimate complaints from people as them simply not willing to accept that Naruto is stronger than Gaara or Temari, especially when there is no logical basis to do so at this point of the story. Someone could just as easily dismiss your argument as you simply being such a big fan of Naruto, that your bias for him simply doesn't allow you to care about him being overpowered (just for example), or how his allies are portrayed, just as long as he is portrayed strong and victorious. (which your previous posts and discussions actually do serve as a logical basis for, yet I don't think anyone here has dismissed your statements this way, instead focusing on the argument)
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2011-09-03, 04:52 | Link #87 |
lost ronin
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: in the recesses of my convoluted mind...
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regardless of whether it's a clone or not, the point is kishi gave us a chapter that talks about naruto relying on his friends and about him not being burdened by the responsibilities of a messiah. i was expecting a much more level-headed naruto (clone or not) willing to trust his comrades to win their battles and going after the big guns himself. he doesn't need to bother with these side battles, his friends could take care of that. that's what a lot of people have been complaining about, including myself. i was hoping for kishi to give us some awesome side battles from minor characters and some panels showing naruto going after madara or something like that. but he didn't. instead he showed us naruto jumping in to save his friends which defeats the purpose of the previous chapter.
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2011-09-03, 05:24 | Link #88 | ||||
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
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1, the zombies are made too weak, because the alliance is winning too easy even without Naruto. Sure they didn't complain that the alliance named characters (kages or Choji/Temari/etc.) are weak. 2, complaints about all that being too boring because Naruto and Sasuke are absent, therefore people just don't care about their fight. As you see Kishimoto had to bring in Naruto into the battles because people were complaining that the main hero of the manga is absent. Quote:
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I think that the conclusion of our little debate has to be that this is a matter of taste. For me and for the vast majority of the readers the hero suddenly entering the battlefield where his allies are losing and saving them is a very good story. This is what we expect and we would be disappointed with this manga if it does not happen. For you it's the opposite. We all know that this is a cliche, but we still want to happen. This is what we expect from an action shonen manga, and this is for what i used the "average" word, but this cliche is also what makes such manga so successful. |
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2011-09-03, 08:52 | Link #90 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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I don't think a "vast majority" wanted Naruto to do much of anything... |
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2011-09-03, 23:37 | Link #92 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Behind You!
Age: 33
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I really dont like Itachi's lecture to Naruto,
It just makes that Naruto = still a kid after all also Itachi said that "If you become arrogant and forget others, you will one day become like madara" I was like... WTF... how can I trust naruto now? so he didnt grow up after all? is that it? Quote:
Its just that Naruto is kinda Imbalance, its like no one can beat him now sorry for double post actually Goku dont defeat his enemy all by himself, remember Gohan? Cell Saga? Gohan was the one who saved the earth not Goku... Also, in the Buu Saga... Goku didnt defeat Buu all by himself.... He was powered up because the others wished something to recover Goku's power... I kinda forgot what they wished though... As far as I remember it was to power up Goku... Naruto is not a Goku wannabe... he's like a superman or something And dont forget, Goku's Team mates is also strong too, And Vegeta's Strength is not far as of Goku
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Last edited by james0246; 2011-09-04 at 00:24. Reason: double post... |
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2011-09-04, 00:24 | Link #93 | |
lost ronin
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: in the recesses of my convoluted mind...
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i also don't like the way he portrays naruto as the savior when the kid hasn't grown up at all. compared to luffy he's just a toddler. luffy may be "retarded", yes i think he has a few loose screws, but he turns into a capable captain when push comes to shove. his friends could rely on him and he relies on them in return. that to me is a mark of a good leader. he takes charge but he doesn't steal anything away from his comrades. he usually chooses the strongest opponents and then lets the others take care of the rest. his crew is not so weak either that they couldn't hold their own against him. luffy powers-up but then his friends get their power-ups too. and even though luffy has grown quite powerful since the time-skip, he is not the strongest one in the world of one piece. there are several others who are far stronger than he is and that's why you can't help cheering for him. he is still the underdog compared to the others. i want naruto to grow up, to let go of his desire to prove himself and become the hokage that he's supposed to be. he has already been accepted and loved. now he needs to take charge and become a leader. he doesn't need to take all the burden to himself, he has friends and allies willing to support him. he needs to realize that. a hokage is not a hokage if he has no one to lead. to become a good leader you need to utilize the abilities of your subordinates and trust that they will do their part. but right now naruto doesn't seem to want to include his friends. he thinks that saving the world is his duty alone. and that's what really ticks me off.
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Last edited by ronin myael; 2011-09-04 at 02:52. |
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2011-09-04, 05:19 | Link #94 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
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The "lecture" was a very good part of the manga, for both Itachi's and Naruto's characters. After all what happened to him Naruto has too much self confidence, it's almost arrogance. One could say that the hero, the good guy, cannot be arrogant, he is the good guy who is saving the world. But the hero can have bad traits too, and these bad traits can grow to be even worse, to the point where he either is not the good guy any more or he fails. When we saw Itachi in the flashbacks being questioned by 3 members of the Uchiha police force, he beat them down and gave them an arrogant speech, we could see how as a genius of ninja arts Itachi has become arrogant, he wanted to do everything by himself and he failed. But Itachi was a child back then, but later as a grown up he realized his past mistakes, but it was too late then, but now at least he could give a life lesson to Naruto. This "lecture" was one of those things why i like this manga better than others. As for comparing Madara to Naruto that's kinda interesting, maybe the author wants that in the end Madara has a flashback about his childhood, where we see how he became from a good child an evil adult. Kishimoto likes to show similar life story patterns for different characters and then compare them in different situations. |
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2011-09-04, 08:09 | Link #95 | |
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Location: Behind You!
Age: 33
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I also think that its much better if Naruto was the one who give us lessons instead of Itachi. It only makes Naruto pathetic or something
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2011-09-04, 10:26 | Link #96 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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I don't think Kishimoto hyped-up Akatsuki. He just portray them as what they are: dangerous ninjas with great abilities. We never met a lot of characters that hail them or cower in fear once they heard the 'Akatsuki' word. In fact, Akatsuki always have to deal with tough fights whenever they encounter enemies. They don't win easily. The one(s) that hype them up is probably the anime and some fans. If you want to know mangas which characters are hyped-up by their authors, try read Claymore, Samurai Deeper Kyo, Saint Seiya (original series) or Black Cat for example. That's where characters are being hyped up to the extreme and some even get a full narration or mentioned every time (by a character and whatnot) even before he/she/them appear.
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2011-09-04, 11:50 | Link #97 | |
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Age: 33
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hmmm I guess youre right
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2011-09-04, 13:21 | Link #98 | ||
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
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But that doesn't really matter. People thought Itachi's words were Kishi's promise that Naruto would go on vacation and the spotlight would move to Gaara, Shika, Kakashi or anyone not named "Naruto" the very next chapter. I don't blame them. Teamwork or no, Naruto's new rasengan-frenzy style is incredibly boring and Muu's battle was disappointingly easy. I almost hope that few of the zombies that were quickly sealed end up getting freed again, but that seems kind of pointless now. Better to just move along... Quote:
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Last edited by Sabaku Kyu; 2011-09-04 at 13:41. |
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2011-09-04, 17:02 | Link #99 | ||||
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Location: in this dimension
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-The fight choreography: Were weren't shown anything relatively new and interesting, especially from the rookies which was what was heavily expected after such a long time away from the camera. -The characters involved: We were shown a fight with cloud nin we barely know, and by extension most of use likely didn't care about so this isn't the best way to create an engaging fight. I'm sure the readers would have much rather watching Sakura, Shikamaru, Neji, or Lee, etc. fight a strong opponent and show off what they've been supposedly doing off camera. -The zombies shouting out instructions on how to counter their attacks: The reasons they did this are obvious, however the fact remains that this doesn't make for a very exciting, and competitive fight. We saw once notorious ninja give half-assed performances, and we were yet again, fed these cliché lines as they were defeated. -The pacing (which I think James briefly touched on earlier)... We were focused on specific aspects for too long at a time, and better timed transitions between these aspects would have added both some suspense and variation for the readers. Regardless of whether or not Naruto is present, these elements will strongly contribute to, and create an pretty uninteresting fight. Don't blame Naruto's absence for the boring fights, instead, blame the boring fights. I said what I had to say about the elite allies being aided. Quote:
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Last edited by Hanzoman; 2011-09-04 at 17:44. |
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2011-09-04, 18:39 | Link #100 | |
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Location: Hidden Village of Sake
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I mostly agree with the points, however in the defense of the author: it seems to me that he wanted to make something that is impossible, that is have most of the side characters, even those who are already dead, have their fights, have their story progressed and ended. And on top of that he wanted to show the whole alliance, all 5 ninja villages, every ninja that matters, and then as zombies introduce a lot of great ninjas from the past too. Sure he made mistakes, it was unavoidable with all these characters and stories connected into one big mess of a war. Considering all this i think the war until now is not that bad as it could have been |
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weekly spoiler discussion |
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