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View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Episode 07 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 58 | 41.13% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 47 | 33.33% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 23 | 16.31% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 9 | 6.38% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 3 | 2.13% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 1 | 0.71% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll |
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2011-02-22, 17:49 | Link #661 | |||
Banned
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So speculation, yes, but based on the real world. Quote:
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And interestingly enough, he held back information so he would have happier, more fulfilled, and more motivated fighters. |
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2011-02-22, 18:08 | Link #662 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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His point isn't valid because withholding information does not equate to evil and doesn't automatically equate to deception. How one withholding information, for what purpose and combined with other actions determine whether such withholding information has a negative impact. This type of argument of picking at pieces and using analogies that is out of context while ignoring the rest is what you have been doing frequently. Quote:
But thanks for shifting the attention away from the point I made to something not very relevant to the discussion. As for how many MGs are there, let's see: Mami was killed by a witch. MGs compete for killing witches because they need the grief seed. Homura said she has seen countless MGs die. Mami hinted at death to witches is very real and possible - which indicates that she has prob seen other MGs die. If QB was the only contractor, there is no way to have MGs in entire Japan because so far he is stuck in this one city and only contracted 1 MG. So it is possible there are other QBs running around in other areas contracting MGs. Sayaka is on the brink of breaking mentally on her 2nd witch (with 1 familiar in between) - she may die in the next encounter or may turn into a witch as some speculated. MGs gets various powers based on their wish and have various level of strength. We don't know what happens when a MG's SG turns completely dark - possibly turn into witch or possibly death. But it won't be something good. Compiling these together, it seems to indicate a high mortality rate for MGs and only the strong survive longer because 1. they obtain more grief seeds to maintain themselves. 2. they can fight stronger witches and survive. Once a MG die, another needs to be made to take over. With constant MG death, there will be a need for a constant new supply of MGs. Using Mentar's words, it's a meat grinder that we see young girls continually being fed into. Whether or not witches only target 2% or 10% of population, the fact remains that society has not noticed their effect. With the high mortality rate of MGs, my point still stands that the MG system does not justify as a means to put an end to the threat presented by the witches and it is too high a price to pay.
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2011-02-22, 18:12 | Link #663 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Folsom, CA, USA
Age: 37
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Mami didn't seem completely miserable, depressed, or broken. Not in the least. Sometimes she was more down by the MG problems, other times she was bright and cheerful. However she never let on or even hinted the kind of depression or extreme thoughts you are portraying.
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2011-02-22, 18:20 | Link #664 | |
This was meaningless
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Not on this site no more.
Age: 36
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Most grievously, your snapping point example is flawed as well because your link to the cliff notes effects of poverty doesn't even mention psychological impacts of poverty. Why don't you quote a line there to support your point? Increased incident of domestic violence maybe? That's hardly a mental disorder. You instead use that to emphasize the impact of a brief time in poverty, a social condition, compared to a person finding out his success in preaching his faith is attributable to forces he considers the antithesis of what he is preaching. Like you even admitted, we don't have a time frame for their time in poverty. They still had the church so you can assume they did not sell their property, and as people showed up to listen to him right after Kyoko made her wish, they certainly did not close down; but they had no more tithings or backing from whatever larger church body he was kicked out of so their family was going hungry. We do not know the most important part which is when Kyoko made her wish in all of this. |
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2011-02-22, 18:22 | Link #665 | |||||||||
Banned
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As for how many MGs are there, let's see: Quote:
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2011-02-22, 18:25 | Link #666 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Folsom, CA, USA
Age: 37
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I doubt there are other QB's at least in Japan, based off of Kyoko's conversation with him where she claimed "if shes a puella magi she must have made a contract with you". Many MGs die is a point that has been pushed often in this show, I feel Kyubey probably usually contracts more frequently but he's too caught up trying to get Madoka that he is falling behind his quota. How many we don't know though, I see hundreds said quite often regarding this, is there a line I missed or is this just exaggeration? So lets say witches only target 2-10% of the population. Now lets remove MG's. So a familiar kills someone, becomes a witch. No one to stop it. Now its a witch, it causes mass suicide as in previous episode. No one stops it. Now it spawns a familiar. Now it continues to target random people, probably usually one at a time, but possibly more. Whats its familiar doing? Killing people, becoming a witch, spawning familiars, which do the same. Chain effect. With nothing to stop and with the information given to us, they will multiply and multiply and the effective amount of people being killed by them will as well. Even if there was one witch in the world, left alone to grow and spawn familiar it would only be a matter of time for us. Given that even the good natured and generally happy friend of Madoka and Sayaka was effected, its probably safe to say they can target anyone. As a final note, how bizzare of amount of suicide would be required for humanity to say "hmm something supernatural is trying to kill us" and even if they somehow did, how could they even find these invisible creatures much less deal with them? |
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2011-02-22, 18:29 | Link #667 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: California
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Yes, she was enjoying her time with Madoka and Sayaka, but what about before that? From what Mami confessed to Madoka she was in the dumps. Before their arrival, she cried to herself, risked her life fighting witches, was completely isolated from everyone, couldn't find time for herself, had no one to talk to or provide emotional support, and suffered all alone being the only MG in the city. There was no one in the entire city, shouldering the same kind of burdens she had to carry. From there, we could see that she was desperate to recruit Sayaka and Madoka into being MG best friends to relieve that loneliness. In order to ensure that, she put up a facade of being the cool and awe-inspiring hero, when in reality she really wanted friends that can relate to her own personal misery. She cried tears of joy when Madoka told her "she wasn't alone anymore", and went into happy mode from realizing that. I really don't know how anyone can say in that situation her life wasn't miserable or she didn't consider herself miserable. Quote:
Yes, until they found about it. Then the entire system just falls apart really, QB even states that many of the girls who found out had the same reaction of shock, meaning it affected their ability to fight witches properly. "Ignorance is bliss" is not the best form of method to ensure MG will keep them happy, motivated, fighters in the long run, which is how any system is designed to function. By not revealing relevant information to the MGs weaknesses and strengths in order to combat the threat of the witches, he is creating an expendable "meat grinder" of MGs, which ultimately undermines the system he claims to be supporting. |
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2011-02-22, 18:44 | Link #668 | ||
This was meaningless
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Not on this site no more.
Age: 36
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2011-02-22, 18:48 | Link #669 | ||
Me at work
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What do you mean by " abnormally high"? If witches have always existed (is there any reason to doubt this?),it's not like there's a "normal" level to compare suicide rates too,and since they've always been there but invisible,why would people notice? And witches aren't just behind suicides,there's also murders and cases of missing people too,but again,if they've always been there why would the crime rates appear " abnormally high" when you couldn't compare data from a time when there was no witches .
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2011-02-22, 18:52 | Link #670 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Folsom, CA, USA
Age: 37
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Thing about the witches though, is what would stop it from spiraling out of control. We know for a fact that 1) Familiar kills someone to become a witch 2) Witches kill people 3) Witches spawn familiars If we remove the MG's how would they *not* continue to multiply and kill greater amounts, unless there is some twist to it that we are completely unaware of? |
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2011-02-22, 18:56 | Link #671 | |||
believe...
Join Date: Aug 2010
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in addition, he reminded sayaka when she was alone in the barrier before mami arrived that he can make her MG right away. also, when kyoko & sayaka were fighting, he said that only way to stop them was for madoka to become MG. not to mention the sole reason that he allows madoka to accompany sayaka every night is so that she can also become MG (& that is not speculation either; that little telepathic talk was proof enough) hell, he even tried sayaka to help madoka make the decision to become MG in order to fight off kyoko. hmm... QB also called only madoka for help in the 1st ep. mami certainly wasnt expecting company judging from her expression. er...this list can keep going lol but the main point has been made by now: guy is choosing the contractees with precision. sure, each of them can be explained away by "he was just trying to help in his own way; she was closest; just an innocent reminder of choice, etc." but it can only fly once or twice. there's a fine line between coincidence & choice. this is clear willful manipulation of crappy circumstance. Quote:
frankly, MG's life hangs in the balance so being crystal clear would be the preferred way to go. guilty until proven innocent because on the off-chance the faith is misplaced, victim doesnt get a second chance.
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2011-02-22, 18:58 | Link #672 | ||||||
Banned
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The problem is not that you don't believe she's 100% happy; she's not, and that much should be obvious. The whole point to this debate that spiraled out, was that Mami was glad for her second life. Watch that scene again in episode 3. Madoka asks what Mami's wish was, which prompts some silence, and prompts Madoka to backtrack and Mami to elaborate. "Not that I regret doing this. Dying back there would have been worse than living like this. But if I could choose for myself, I would want to make my decision very carefully." Note that she's not saying she wouldn't have become an MG if she had a choice. That says a lot to me, because if she really felt the MG life was so horrible, she would be like Homura, not wanting others to get involved, and she would have siad: "If I had the opportunity to choose, I probably wouldn't have." So, even as an MG, Mami doesn't consider her life that bad. At least not bad enough to say she'd rather not be an MG, and wouldn't want others involved. Hence, she's not in the pit of despair you might like us to think. Quote:
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Interesting, eh? Quote:
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2011-02-22, 19:09 | Link #673 | |
This was meaningless
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Not on this site no more.
Age: 36
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2011-02-22, 19:14 | Link #674 | |||
believe...
Join Date: Aug 2010
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2011-02-22, 19:15 | Link #675 |
Banned
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Or, they behave much like animals, and thus feed on humans. Or perhaps are like vengeful ghosts or demons, who just want to plague humanity.
But we don't know whether their area covers the entire earth, or just this small section of Japan. The show hasn't elaborated on that, much like most everything else. *sigh* |
2011-02-22, 19:16 | Link #676 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Same goes with murder and missing, when unexplainable cases becomes too frequent, there will be investigation into why they are happening. If you want me to strictly stick to the context of the world the show is in, where witch 'possibly' always existed, then one can say MGs 'possibly' always existed and the reason for them not escalate into a larger issue that society will notice is due to the MGs limiting the effect of the witches. This I do not dispute. Several people seem to misunderstand my point. I am not saying to leave the witches alone and let them propagate and continue to kill people. I am saying the current MG system is not a good solution to the problem. It is not one made with best intention in mind. QB does not have the welfare of humans in his best interest. He is just presenting info to the MG candidates in that manner to entice them into contracting with him. I am also speculating like others that the problem may have been formed in the first place to create the MG system to generate grief seeds. Whatever or where ever QB comes from, he either caused witches to come into existence in the first place and then start offering wishes to contract MGs as a solution or MGs turn into witches and he is creating an vicious cycle to generate grief seeds.
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2011-02-22, 19:22 | Link #677 | ||||
Banned
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So neither one had a wish ready when they met Kyube. Quote:
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Or Kyoko! If only she hadn't of believed in Kyube, then she'd be back in her starving to death family, and everything would be peachy. Well, I suppose you're entitled to your opinion. The problem is, we have no way of knowing if there is a better system. Perhaps Kyube's system is the best, and perhaps it isn't. We won't know until it's over. When the series actually shows us that there is a better method, then we'll have something to talk about. |
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2011-02-22, 19:22 | Link #678 | |
This was meaningless
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Not on this site no more.
Age: 36
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2011-02-22, 19:26 | Link #679 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Folsom, CA, USA
Age: 37
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Why do witches kill Do the gain something from killing, or is killing required for them to survive Can they do more than simply cause/provoke negative emotions Where do they come from Are they as or nearly as, intelligent as humans We don't know any of this, we don't even have any clues aside from the little we have seen. Right now from what we know, witches are bad. It would be interesting if this actually turned out not to be true though, that witches served a greater purpose. or perhaps they just need culling so they don't spin out of control? Pure speculation there, just some thoughts. |
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2011-02-22, 19:29 | Link #680 | |||||
believe...
Join Date: Aug 2010
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