News Stories

[ganbaru]

American hostage Mueller's death confirmed by Obama, family
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0LE1WV20150210

Oil rebound falters as IEA hints at record-high stocks
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0LE06820150210

California warns against intentional measles exposures
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0LE05520150210

[Ithekro]

California warns against intentional measles exposures
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0LE05520150210

Dammit people. We were trying to get rid of that one just like polio. Why intentionally spread it around for stupidity.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Dammit people. We were trying to get rid of that one just like polio. Why intentionally spread it around for stupidity.

There are too many stupid people. Mother Nature has rigged their neurons to act in a certain way that would allow them to be "Darwinised".

[AmeNoJaku]

Originally Posted by Mentar

My goodness. I should have just stuck with my decision to just ignore this thread.



You're very much in line with the poor suppressed masses' frothing frenzy who are en route to make the new Merkel = Hitler equation their new mainstream wisdom. Amazing. How low can you go? The "third worst disaster after 2 world wars"? Just a tad hyperbole, maybe?

This very much reminds me of the laments of a cancer patient who is furious that the chemo therapy makes him feel absolutely terrible, and after several years of suffering he demands that the chemo ends because it's responsible for his problems. I'm sorry, but I still _am_ of the opinion that a nation can NOT create lasting growth by debt. What does is ensuring that your products are competitive on the global market. If they are not, you will not be able to live an affluent life no metter how much money you print (or borrow - since this will end now, as Greece finds out).

Naturally it's tempting to explain your current misery by being the victim of evil-minded outsiders who do nothing but exploiting you out of sheer greed and malice. After all, then it's someone else's fault, and you don't have to come to the frightening realization that most grown-ups have when they move out: You need to stand on your own feet and wipe your own @ss. And it's the responsibility of each nation to do the same.

So please just default on your debts and build your "no idea where the money will come from" utopia in Greece. Free of all the evil Merkels, Banksters and all those inhuman "barbarians" (see below) who you borrowed the equivalent of a BMW for each Greek citizen from, and then refused to repay. Seeing this utopia meeting reality might be the best way to ensure that the fiscally more sane Europeans will stay on board.



Religious promises like paying for the bills of the costs you incur, you mean? This is actually the foundation of ANY market system. Which should be common sense for every thinking man, but in the current frothing frenzy, common sense is rare. What I see is a maelstorm of nationalistic pride, political agitation and lots of screaming. Greece is setting itself up for a terrible, terrible rude awakening.

Don't extend my opinion to what Greeks or their government decide. I have only spent 10 days in the country in more than 10 years. Nevertheless, what havoc has Merkel and her German conservatives have wrecked over the continent since 2005 is beyond reason. I can understand why she and her supporters, only care about domestic popularity and treating everyone else like slaves, but all of you are not as short-sighted like another populist regime enjoying vast popularity in Germany that almost sent the whole continent back to the Dark Ages.

Originally Posted by aohige

Lots of words being flung around in the thread, but all I'm understanding is "give us more money or we'll call you names".

Or you want to ignore what has happened over the last decade in Europe

[Dextro]

In other news it looks like Jon Stewart is leaving The Daily Show sometime this year.

It really feels like the end of an era and the two most likely candidate (in my view) have already moved on to better pastures (John Oliver and Stephen Colbert).

[ganbaru]

Obama asks Congress to authorize U.S. war on Islamic State
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0LF1KP20150211

U.S. gunman kills three young Muslims in parking spat: police
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0LF11020150211

NYC cop charged for stairwell shooting of unarmed man
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0LF1LY20150211

[Yu Ominae]

I heard the gunman turned himself in afterwards after ... Also confirmed to be an atheist.

[Ithekro]

An actual declaration of war?

[Yu Ominae]

Anwar sentenced again for another count of sodomy. Conspiracy theories are starting to rise up again at UMNO.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

Or you want to ignore what has happened over the last decade in Europe

Wow, so I am a Nazi now due to the people that did something in the lands I live in until 70 years ago? Good to know.


In Germany, if you just say 1 wrong word when it comes to foreign politics you are immidietly branded a "Nazi". I guess having 5 subjects in school discussing how bad "National Socialism" is multiple times until one gets competely sick of it, was not enough.


Americans are all money hungry capitalists
Russians are all communists
Germans are all Nazis
Polish are all thiefs
etc.

Let's continue with the labeling, guys!

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Wow, so I am a Nazi now due to the people that did something in the lands I live in until 70 years ago? Good to know.


In Germany, if you just say 1 wrong word when it comes to foreign politics you are immidietly branded a "Nazi". I guess having 5 subjects in school discussing how bad "National Socialism" is multiple times until one gets competely sick of it, was not enough.


Americans are all money hungry capitalists
Russians are all communists
Germans are all Nazis
Polish are all thiefs
etc.

Let's continue with the labeling, guys!

[ganbaru]

Oil bounces back above $56 as dollar weakens, majors cut investments
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0LG06W20150212

Police in Washington state fatally shoot man who threw rocks at them
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0LG0GJ20150212

Potential Republican candidates tread carefully on Islamic State
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0LG0CR20150212

[SeijiSensei]

I'm not going to take sides in the Greece debate, but I was surprised recently when I visited the OECD's website and looked at "average annual hours actually worked" for the member countries. For 2013,

OECD average: 1,770
US: 1,788
France: 1,489
Germany: 1,388
Japan: 1,735
Italy: 1,752
Portugal: 1,712
Spain: 1,665
Greece: 2,037

http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS

In the workaholic US, the Federal Governent defines a full person-year as 2,000 hours, the product of 40 hrs/week times 50 weeks, leaving just two weeks for all holidays and vacations.

Not too surprisingly, there is a largely inverse relationship between these figures and per-capita incomes. People in the richer countries earn more and work less. The big outlier is the US.

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=PDB_LV

The Greek figure has risen slightly since 2008-2009; in the wealthier European economies the figure has remained relatively constant or declined slightly.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I'm not going to take sides in the Greece debate, but I was surprised recently when I visited the OECD's website and looked at "average annual hours actually worked" for the member countries. For 2013,

OECD average: 1,770
US: 1,788
France: 1,489
Germany: 1,388
Japan: 1,735
Italy: 1,752
Portugal: 1,712
Spain: 1,665
Greece: 2,037

http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS

In the workaholic US, the Federal Governent defines a full person-year as 2,000 hours, the product of 40 hrs/week times 50 weeks, leaving just two weeks for all holidays and vacations.

Not too surprisingly, there is a largely inverse relationship between these figures and per-capita incomes. People in the richer countries earn more and work less. The big outlier is the US.

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=PDB_LV

The Greek figure has risen slightly since 2008-2009; in the wealthier European economies the figure has remained relatively constant or declined slightly.

The problem with such a study is that it does not clock in productivity. And to compound it, how do you measure productivity? By the USD earned per hour? The energy burned per work hour?

[SeijiSensei]

My point about the inverse relationship between income levels and hours worked is all about "productivity." Greeks work many more hours than people in most other advanced economies but earn less because their productivity is relatively lower.

Productivity is usually measured by "unit labor costs" or "value added per hour."

Rather than ask me these definitional questions, I recommend spending time on the OECD site where these matters are discussed in detail.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

My point about the inverse relationship between income levels and hours worked is all about "productivity." Greeks work many more hours than people in most other advanced economies but earn less because their productivity is relatively lower.

Productivity is usually measured by "unit labor costs" or "value added per hour."

Rather than ask me these definitional questions, I recommend spending time on the OECD site where these matters are discussed in detail.

So then what is the reason behind their lack of productivity?

In numbers, the GDP per head of population for Greece has dropped from 27k to 20k since 2008, while countries in the Eurozone like Germany and France maintained stable levels with less than 2-3k of change.

That aside, when we bring in factors like job vacancies and labour costs, both have fallen and can be considered "tanked" somewhere around 2012. There seems to be no motivation within the economy to create jobs nor increase salaries (which will contribute to labour costs) What is more, the minimum wage has been trimmed to 683.38 Euros last year, which I predict will not rise since their economy does not seem to have been hurt by low oil prices (the country exports hydrocarbons for most of its income).

All of these numbers tell me that the economy of Greece is in for another downward ride. What it doesn't tell me is, what is the problem with the Greek labour force, wherever I should be looking at but I did not.

What I have just gotten though, is the Greek Labour Force survey which was released yesterday. I haven't had time to analyse it, so maybe you can find it useful.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

The problem with such a study is that it does not clock in productivity. And to compound it, how do you measure productivity? By the USD earned per hour? The energy burned per work hour?

A bigger problem is that those numbers are filed in by the different countries, each with their own methodology. So they don't measure precisely the same thing. (It says right there on the page they're unsuitable for comparison.)

3 years old article commenting such figures. It points out part of the difference between Greece and Germany is due to the difference in labor markets. Greece has lots of self-employed people, while Germany has a lot of part-timers (rather than leaving people unemployed after 2008...).

I have no idea if France can make such an excuse - we've got lots of unemployed, and not that many part-timers.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

So then what is the reason behind their lack of productivity?

In numbers, the GDP per head of population for Greece has dropped from 27k to 20k since 2008, while countries in the Eurozone like Germany and France maintained stable levels with less than 2-3k of change.

That aside, when we bring in factors like job vacancies and labour costs, both have fallen and can be considered "tanked" somewhere around 2012. There seems to be no motivation within the economy to create jobs nor increase salaries (which will contribute to labour costs) What is more, the minimum wage has been trimmed to 683.38 Euros last year, which I predict will not rise since their economy does not seem to have been hurt by low oil prices (the country exports hydrocarbons for most of its income).

All of these numbers tell me that the economy of Greece is in for another downward ride. What it doesn't tell me is, what is the problem with the Greek labour force, wherever I should be looking at but I did not.

What I have just gotten though, is the Greek Labour Force survey which was released yesterday. I haven't had time to analyse it, so maybe you can find it useful.

this article is form 2010 but would explain quite a bit.

ATHENS — Antonios Avgerinos, 59, a retired army pharmacist, always wanted his own pharmacy here. And why not? Greek law ensures that pharmacists get a 35 percent profit on all drugs sold, even over-the-counter medications.
But Greek law also limits just about everything else about pharmacies. They must be at least 820 feet apart and have a likely market of no fewer than 1,500 residents. To break into the business, an aspiring pharmacist generally has to buy a license from a retiring one. That often costs upward of $400,000.
“It is an absurd system,” Mr. Avgerinos said recently. “But it has been that way my whole life.”

...
Experts say there are about 70 closed professions here, including those of lawyers, engineers, taxi drivers, speech therapists, welders, notaries, street market vendors, newsstand operators and architects. Each is protected from competition by a byzantine tangle of regulations and licensing requirements that result in high prices for consumers and a reliable living for insiders.
No use shopping around for a less expensive lawyer or notary, for instance. They all charge fixed fees, as do many other professions. There are numerous restrictions on licenses, too. Some are not even available to some classes of citizens. For instance, newsstand licenses are reserved for war veterans, the disabled and those with large families to support. Others are limited, like the number of long-haul trucking licenses, which has been frozen for 25 years.
A study carried out by IOBE in 2006 estimated that opening these professions would increase gross domestic product by about $35 billion, or 10 percent, in five years.



http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/wo...pagewanted=all

Greece had 4-5 yrs to deal with this mess but doesn't seem like any changes has been made. So why should the rest of Europe pick up the tab again?

[AmeNoJaku]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Wow, so I am a Nazi now due to the people that did something in the lands I live in until 70 years ago? Good to know.


In Germany, if you just say 1 wrong word when it comes to foreign politics you are immidietly branded a "Nazi". I guess having 5 subjects in school discussing how bad "National Socialism" is multiple times until one gets competely sick of it, was not enough.


Americans are all money hungry capitalists
Russians are all communists
Germans are all Nazis
Polish are all thiefs
etc.

Let's continue with the labeling, guys!

Nope, you are not, and that is neither what I wrote, nor what wanted to; Germany has so many people voting for Die Linke that are even more radical than what the Greek government is willing to compromise with and still gets blackmailed by Germany's populist conservatives that only care about getting voted again despite the consequences of their destructive fiscal policies to the rest of the continent.

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

The problem with such a study is that it does not clock in productivity. And to compound it, how do you measure productivity? By the USD earned per hour? The energy burned per work hour?

This is partially true. It is a myth propagated through trash like Focus in Germany and Reuters across the world that southerners work less, have larger public sectors and other populist fantasies that conservative parties use to mislead voters. But on the other hand, how many hours one spends at work, does not mean working, and through my positions in Germany, Little England and Japan realise that dozing off your desk just to show dedication is not particularly productive

And since I haven't had the chance to be critical about SYRIZA/podemos/DieLinke/etc. here, thanks to all the overly hysterical conservative fanboys, southerners are even more well trained than northerners in this particular skill

[Mentar]

It's not only a matter of efficiency. I've read an article that the Greek statistics are a "guesstimate" based on what the employees themselves report back to the Greek officials. Those familiar with Greek statistics know what I mean.