2013-07-22, 14:04 | Link #8401 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
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-AA been destroyed in Alaska with 80% of ZAFT army -ZAFT don't have reason to send Athrun to earth in Justice - Orb without Freedom + AA + Justice help will easily lose to the EFA -Raul will win by forcing both side to destroy each other |
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2013-07-22, 14:46 | Link #8402 | |
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2013-07-22, 14:59 | Link #8403 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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It also would have been marketing suicide.
Also nobody is safe and everyone dying was not a theme of Seed or Destiny at all. And the TSA couldn't have existed with that since most of them would have died. All it would have done was changed the hero side of the war to Zaft, which would have missed the whole point since Zaft was just as bad as EA in the end. |
2013-07-22, 18:02 | Link #8404 |
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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Well, I don't see why they would kill Kira and then just keep the story identical and just see the consequences to Kira being dead. That's just not how fiction works.
If Kira is dead, then Archangel doesn't die. It miraculously survives somehow. Goes to Orb, meets Athrun there and he joins them. It wouldn't be that hard to write it. Destiny would have turned out COMPLETELY different though, since Athrun overcoming his killing of Kira would have completely underminded Shinn's plot, so that would have needed a total overhaul. Of course, if I'm guessing right, Seed would NOT have been popular enough for a sequel, so moot point. Hardest part would have been Rau. Without the Ultimate Coordinator thing to play off of, his revelation of being more than just a weirdo in mask would have been a lot more meaningless. It might still work, but it would take some maneuvering... |
2013-07-22, 21:13 | Link #8405 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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However, without Kira, the Archangel might not have survived the radiation from the Cyclops System. And even if it did managed to escape, Athrun still wouldn't have any reason to go to Orb or join the Archangel. And without the Freedom and the Justice there, Orb might've lost before the Archangel and the Kusanagi could escape. (Of course, the plot could be changed, but it would have to be a major change.) |
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2013-07-22, 21:39 | Link #8406 |
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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I wouldn't say major. They let them have the base, ZAFT takes the bait and focuses on the base, and it gives them enough of an opening to escape. Skip the scene with the GINN almost killing them all, delay the explosion a bit, maybe add some silliness about the Archangel getting a speed boost with its Lohengrin or some other random BS to escape the explosion if you feel like you must increase tension, and you're done.
As for Orb, just make the druggies not as good as they are now, and have Athrun handle them solo. If you really wanted to keep things closer to the orignal, make Dearka defect earlier, prove himself to the Archangel, then be given some new experimental suit made by Orb before the Orb battle. Now we still have two coordinators in super awesome mobile suits. Yes, the plot would have to change, but that's kind of the point... Edit: Better yet, have Mu pilot new experimental Orb suit. Coordinator and Natural brought together by Kira's martyrdom. It'd even be a little poetic in a way. Last edited by Deadpool2000; 2013-07-22 at 21:44. Reason: Better than double posting |
2013-07-22, 22:00 | Link #8408 |
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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Some of the forces DID ignore the Archangel. All you have to do is skip the GINN almost killing them and have them fight their way out.
Athrun goes to Orb to see if the EA gets the mass driver or not. He intervenes instead of observing. This isn't a big stretch... |
2013-07-22, 22:17 | Link #8409 | ||
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And then there's also Yzak, who would also target the Archangel. Not to mention, without Kira clearing the way, it's doubtful that the Archangel would've been able to fight its way out fast enough to escape the radiation. Quote:
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2013-07-22, 22:54 | Link #8410 |
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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How is it doubtful? Archangel has survived battles they should have died before. They're the hero ship. Them fighting their way past the forces isn't internally INconsistant.
Without Kira there is no need for a ZAFT Freedom. It'd make more sense to make it an Orb suit and give it to someone else. As for Athrun's mission, you could make it literally anything. Could just be chase down the Archangel again, and he decides to help them instead. You keep following this idea that CE is some alternative universe where the events HAVE to follow exactly as they did, which just isn't how writing works. Last edited by Deadpool2000; 2013-07-22 at 22:54. Reason: Typo |
2013-07-22, 23:04 | Link #8411 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Because you can't just remove a massive element like the main character and expect nothing to change, or the story to somehow make massive exceptions just to keep it going.
Athrun has no reason to defect without Kira. The Clyne Faction has no reason to be forced into action if not for being marked traitors because they gave Freedom to Kira. Etc Etc. The story simply will not work as it did without Kira. He's too critical to it. Remove him at that point and EVERYTHING changes. |
2013-07-22, 23:07 | Link #8412 |
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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Athrun defects because ZAFT is in the wrong and his father is insane. His doubts began after killing Kira, not after finding him alive.
Clyne Faction was already against Zala, and Zala was slowly losing his grip. Clyne gets vocal about anti war, Patrick kills him, Lacus goes underground and the rest works fine. Things DO change obviously, but it would literally take less than an hour worth of rewrites to make it work well. Fifteen minutes if all you want is internal consistency. |
2013-07-22, 23:12 | Link #8413 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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It would also be a massive stretch.
Athrun has no reason to work with these people he doesn't know and who he was trying to kill a few episodes ago. They have no reason to trust or want to work with the guy who basically killed their friend. Lacus has no reason to ally with these people she also barely knows, etc etc. Kira was friends with Athrun Lacus and Cagalli seperately. He brought everyone together. Everyone coming together anyway, just because would be contrived to the point of stupidity. More important Athrun killing Kira and getting away with it would make him due for massive karma for killing the nice guy hero of the show who didn't deserve to die and get no repreccusion for it. It's like how the only reason Shinn didn't ending up dying horribly in Destiny was because all the people he "killed" ended up surviving. |
2013-07-23, 00:36 | Link #8415 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
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Athrun would NOT be welcome among the crew of the Archangel if he had slain Kira. Cagalli may have forgiven him but he'd be responsible for the death of Kira and Tolle both, and it was Kira who got the crew to put aside their differences and thoughts of revenge due to Lacus' beliefs.
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2013-07-23, 00:52 | Link #8416 |
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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They would only know Athrun killed Kira and Tolle if he or Cagalli told them... Which they would, eventually, but by then everyone would have accepted him already. Look at how easily the whole thing was skimmed over in the original. Cagalli could play Kira's place in the speech about not killing someone because they killed someone, and Miriallia would let it go just as easily.
Again, stop thinking this is some alternate universe. It's fiction. The characters act how the writers want them to. There is such a thing and internal incosistancy, but there is plenty of leeway. |
2013-07-23, 01:01 | Link #8417 |
Goat Herder
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
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You're the one acting delusional and thinking everything will still be the same without the single most pivotal character in the cast.
Without Kira, Lacus doesn't have anyone to hand over the Freedom. Thus the family isn't considered traitors. Athrun isn't given the goal of chasing after Kira and the Freedom. Without these events, there's nothing to bring to light Patrick Zala's fanaticism and lunacy. Without Kira, the Archangel and everyone on board will likely be destroyed. A GINN nearly took them out and there was no one there to blow it away to save them--Athrun certainly wouldn't; he wouldn't be there. There is no one to warn ZAFT about the Cyclops system that'll go off and obliterate everything. Even more lives would be lost. Only then would Athrun likely find himself in the event of allying with Lacus. But without Kira or Mu, there'd be new revelation at Mendel. There'd be no realization on just how messed up Rau Le Crueset is. And even more importantly there's no ship fully capable of taking on the Dominion, and less firepower to stop the nukes. Without Kira, the war ends up obliterating humanity. It will NOT be the stalemate that it was with Kira alive. End of story. Quit being delusional.
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2013-07-23, 01:27 | Link #8418 | ||||||||
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2013-07-23, 01:48 | Link #8419 |
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Speaking of Kira being killed off, Fukuda claimed that Seed's original ending was that Kira would have died in his duel vs. Rau, Athrun would lose an arm, and that Fllay was to have been a human bomb.
That didn't happen due to the popularity of the main characters, and that the fanbase would have rioted over this.
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2013-07-23, 02:16 | Link #8420 | ||||||||||||
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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Patrick Zala's fanaticism and lunacy was self evident. Uzumi figured it out. From pretty much another planet. Quote:
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They have the means, the data, the tech, the supplies and the reason to have a Gundam. Every superpower has made some. Orb NOT making new gen Gundams makes less sense actually. Quote:
Cagalli is reason enough for him to help Orb. And him helping Orb is reason enough for the Archangel to accept him. Quote:
That would have been the talk he had with Cagalli where he cries over killing his friend. Quote:
He was unhinged and mad with grief. The theft of the Freedom was a great excuse, but it wasn't really needed. We could have him order Clyne's death just by spreading anti war propaganda, ie being a traitor. Quote:
Her father dead, she goes into hiding, Athrun tries to find her. He would join ORB. Quote:
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I already did an outline of most of it in about a minute? This is a major overhaul here. Rau is the most difficult part. He knows he's captured, he can see the Buster fighting. Not much of a stretch. Athrun took Lacus to the Archangel in the original. Not much need for change here. |
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mecha, seed it and weep |
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