AnimeSuki Forums

marvelB · 2010-03-29, 13:16

Hey, Dragon talk! Looks like I may have been a little hasty about my comment from a couple of pages ago, after all.

Also, this is a bit off-topic, but since we were talking about breaks some posts back, I'm actually kinda surprised that Togashi hasn't taken another of his...... "sabbaticals" yet. Not that I'm complaining or anything (after all, the more HxH, the better

), but I thought the agreement was that he'd take a break every 10 chapters, right? Now it's been about 12 chapters and no news of a hiatus has been announced so far. Maybe Togashi realized that it'll be a good while before the next DQ comes out, and has actually decided to work to pass the time?

John D. · 2010-03-29, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by zetzet

do you think dragon will appear

My pet theory is that Dragon won't show up at Marinford, but afterward we'll hear that he launched an aggresive (and succesful) campaign at WG's territories weakened by the big gathering of marine personal at Marinford.

randomlex · 2010-03-29, 14:27

I thought it was a bit weird that Dragon didn't show up. But then I realized that he probably doesn't have anything against the Marines. The Revolutionaries are fighting the Government directly, which are the Gorousei (that's what they're called, right?) and probably the nobles.

They don't have to fight the Marines, as they're just taking orders from the higher authority, the Gorousei.

As in real revolutions, you fight the army only if absolutely necessary. If not, you go straight for the head. If Dragon overthrows the Gorousei, he'll have control of the Marines. Simple as that.

A lot of successful coups involved getting the revolutionaries into key places of the government, sometimes avoiding the military completely, and swiftly taking control by taking down the last remaining important figures of the state, then declaring the creation of the new Republic/Empire/Democracy/Dictatorship/Whatever.

Xellos-_^ · 2010-03-29, 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomlex

I thought it was a bit weird that Dragon didn't show up. But then I realized that he probably doesn't have anything against the Marines. The Revolutionaries are fighting the Government directly, which are the Gorousei (that's what they're called, right?) and probably the nobles.

They don't have to fight the Marines, as they're just taking orders from the higher authority, the Gorousei.

As in real revolutions, you fight the army only if absolutely necessary. If not, you go straight for the head. If Dragon overthrows the Gorousei, he'll have control of the Marines. Simple as that.

A lot of successful coups involved getting the revolutionaries into key places of the government, sometimes avoiding the military completely, and swiftly taking control by taking down the last remaining important figures of the state, then declaring the creation of the new Republic/Empire/Democracy/Dictatorship/Whatever.

you think someone like akainu will take orders form Dragon just because he just the nobles?

i seriously doubt the marines will start taking orders form dragon even if the wg collaspe.

overthrowing the government is the easy, it is re-establishing a new government is going to be the real hard part.

John D. · 2010-03-29, 14:56

While the different countries of the World Governant have military forces (as Alabasta), the Marines are a neutral force directly under the command of the WG and most of the higher cast among the marines have fully embraced the ideals of the WG (Sengoku, Akainu, many of the VA's, Kizuro to an unknown degree). If Dragon pull a suprise hit on the Gorousei and take them out I don't think the marines will bend the knee to Dragon.

We do not know exactly what sort of ideals Dragon stand for and what sort of governant he wants, but we can guess it's a revoltionary change from the WG, and I simply can't see the marines accept that. Not unless Sengoku, Akainu etc. are removed (or have a stunning change of heart) and the marines higher officiers (Fleet Admiral, Admirals, VA's) share Coby's beliefs. (That is how I think it'll play out though, Coby will be the pebble in the pool and overtime the marines will change)

mr.muscles · 2010-03-29, 15:16

Ok i don't know if im the only one or not but my ultimate favorite part was when Ben beckman told kizaru not to move a muscle and kizaru literal raised his hands and looked, or at least sounded, scared.
does this mean kizaru knows ben can kill him? does that mean Shanks pirate crew is that much stronger than whitebeards?

cheese4u · 2010-03-29, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.muscles

Ok i don't know if im the only one or not but my ultimate favorite part was when Ben beckman told kizaru not to move a muscle and kizaru literal raised his hands and looked, or at least sounded, scared.
does this mean kizaru knows ben can kill him? does that mean Shanks pirate crew is that much stronger than whitebeards?

We've seen enough of kizaru to know that's just his thing. He calls everyone scary in an almost sarcastic manner, and then owns them. Albeit this time Kizaru may actually have cause to be concerned considering Beckman (I would imagine) is at least as strong as Marco perhaps even stronger So him stopping in his tracks is most likely legit, him being scared is probably just Kizaru being Kizaru.

james0246 · 2010-03-29, 15:34

^I read the expression as Kizaru simply goofing off again...but, he did smile when facing Rayleigh as well, and we know, somewhat, how that turned out...

edit: damn cell connection, cheese4u beat me to the punch

...

mr.muscles · 2010-03-29, 15:37

that makes sense
can't wait to see what next chapter has in store

Slayerx · 2010-03-29, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

i think Oda needs to put out a good reason why he didn't show up. The WG/WB showdown would have been a great opportunity to take out some of the Marines best.

Well one good reason would be that if he showed up to this war, then it would appear as though he was helping whitebeard. When it comes down to it, whitebeard is considered a villain to most of the people of the world; if Dragon comes out and is seen as aiding pirates, then he could loose a lot of public favor... one of the keys to a successful revolution is getting the people on you're side and dragon will not earn tat if he is helping some of the world's most notorious criminals.

Wargumm1i · 2010-03-29, 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Well one good reason would be that if he showed up to this war, then it would appear as though he was helping whitebeard. When it comes down to it, whitebeard is considered a villain to most of the people of the world; if Dragon comes out and is seen as aiding pirates, then he could loose a lot of public favor... one of the keys to a successful revolution is getting the people on you're side and dragon will not earn tat if he is helping some of the world's most notorious criminals.

Indeed he is trying too overthrow the WG and not aid pirates, but he does view pirates as freedom fighters lol, or people who follow there own freedom and do not allow the WG rules too bind them.

But if he does plan on earning the worlds or public favor against WG then he has too show no sign of love for the Pirates, either ignore them or stop powerful ones.

ashesatdusk · 2010-03-29, 16:29

I don't think dragon has an issue with aiding pirates, Kuma obviously has ties to the revolutionary Army. I think its more it probably doesn't match his goals or his style. We don't have a lot of information on dragon, but the info revolutionary army seems to focus on getting countries to over throw their governments, and are in the shadows. From everything we know about dragon, he himself is in the shadows and little is known about his whereabouts or location. Ivanakov her/himself was in hiding until Luffy came along.

It may simply be that he doesn't think this an event is the right time for him to reveal himself out in the open.

cheese4u · 2010-03-29, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by james0246

edit: damn cell connection, cheese4u beat me to the punch

...

Haha, I know it always drives me crazy when that happens.

Xellos-_^ · 2010-03-29, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Well one good reason would be that if he showed up to this war, then it would appear as though he was helping whitebeard. When it comes down to it, whitebeard is considered a villain to most of the people of the world; if Dragon comes out and is seen as aiding pirates, then he could loose a lot of public favor... one of the keys to a successful revolution is getting the people on you're side and dragon will not earn tat if he is helping some of the world's most notorious criminals.

not everyone through. While some probably view Whitebeard as a villian other also viewing him as Robinhood type (fisherman isle). And there is also plenty of real world historical examples of bandidts being recurited to the regular army and raising up the ranks too. i don't see Dragon being view as a allied to pirates as that bad especially when weight against the opportunity to knock a few of the Marines higher ups and to recruit a few of the WB's pirates.

Sazelyt · 2010-03-29, 23:52

I don't think WG would want to face Shanks in addition to the rest they are fighting, so I wonder how they will put an end to this fight in a way that will not disgrace their name and honor, while everyone watching the ongoing battle around the world...

Hisoka?? · 2010-03-30, 00:37

why didn't 8/10 of the marines start frothing at the mouth and collapse now that Shanks is here? If he had that effect on White beard's crew, the same should apply for the marine grunts.

morbosfist · 2010-03-30, 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hisoka??

why didn't 8/10 of the marines start frothing at the mouth and collapse now that Shanks is here? If he had that effect on White beard's crew, the same should apply for the marine grunts.

Shanks did that to Whitebeard's crew on purpose. He presumably isn't doing so now because he wants to stop the fighting, not provoke further conflict.

james0246 · 2010-03-30, 01:43

Don't worry, next chapter 60 plus thousand marines will collapse in a heap, leaving only the top marines fighting against the top pirates...then the other Yonkou will show up...and Tom will pull up with Mei-Ō Rayleigh in tow...then, just for kicks, Fisher Tiger will crawl out of his grave...in other words, it'll be a bad day to be a marine...

mechalord · 2010-03-30, 03:08

Most pirates aren't good guys. Blackbeard, for example, is not a good guy.

Luffy isn't real pirate. The Straw Hats are kind of like the A Team. They are mercenary do-gooders that kind of work for nothing.

A lot of the dudes Luffy has fought have been pirates.

A lot of those pirates get by through pirating, preying on unarmed civilian and government vessels.

ashesatdusk · 2010-03-30, 03:49

Quote:

Luffy isn't real pirate. The Straw Hats are kind of like the A Team. They are mercenary do-gooders that kind of work for nothing.

A lot of the dudes Luffy has fought have been pirates.

A lot of those pirates get by through pirating, preying on unarmed civilian and government vessels.

This was more or less explained in one of the Romance Dawns, the first chapter of One piece and the title of two other "prototype" chapters about one piece. There are two types of pirates in Oda's world Morganeers, which are your traditional pillage and plunder pirates, and the other is piece mains who are pirates who are on the see looking for adventure. Peace mains get by from feeding on Morganeers.

In the main one piece story line these distinctions were never introduced, but luffy still seems to fall into the category of being a peace main.

All that being said Pirate in the world of One piece is a lot like an Out law in Outlaw star, its essentially a symbol denoting freedom on the seas it does not mean they break any laws, its simply they don't adhere to them (they don't do something unless they don't want to).

2010-03-29, 15:16	Link #266
mr.muscles Junior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: west coast is where i live and it can't be beat no matter what.	Ok i don't know if im the only one or not but my ultimate favorite part was when Ben beckman told kizaru not to move a muscle and kizaru literal raised his hands and looked, or at least sounded, scared. does this mean kizaru knows ben can kill him? does that mean Shanks pirate crew is that much stronger than whitebeards? __________________ Com on wanre niht scridan sceadugenga ^_^

2010-03-29, 15:37	Link #269
mr.muscles Junior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: west coast is where i live and it can't be beat no matter what.	that makes sense can't wait to see what next chapter has in store __________________ Com on wanre niht scridan sceadugenga ^_^

2010-03-29, 16:29	Link #272
ashesatdusk Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: La La Land	I don't think dragon has an issue with aiding pirates, Kuma obviously has ties to the revolutionary Army. I think its more it probably doesn't match his goals or his style. We don't have a lot of information on dragon, but the info revolutionary army seems to focus on getting countries to over throw their governments, and are in the shadows. From everything we know about dragon, he himself is in the shadows and little is known about his whereabouts or location. Ivanakov her/himself was in hiding until Luffy came along. It may simply be that he doesn't think this an event is the right time for him to reveal himself out in the open. __________________ Sig never posted, because the mods would remove it for exceeding the size limit.

2010-03-29, 13:16	Link #261
marvelB Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Hey, Dragon talk! Looks like I may have been a little hasty about my comment from a couple of pages ago, after all. Also, this is a bit off-topic, but since we were talking about breaks some posts back, I'm actually kinda surprised that Togashi hasn't taken another of his...... "sabbaticals" yet. Not that I'm complaining or anything (after all, the more HxH, the better ), but I thought the agreement was that he'd take a break every 10 chapters, right? Now it's been about 12 chapters and no news of a hiatus has been announced so far. Maybe Togashi realized that it'll be a good while before the next DQ comes out, and has actually decided to work to pass the time?

2010-03-29, 14:27	Link #263
randomlex In the eye of the storm Join Date: Feb 2010	I thought it was a bit weird that Dragon didn't show up. But then I realized that he probably doesn't have anything against the Marines. The Revolutionaries are fighting the Government directly, which are the Gorousei (that's what they're called, right?) and probably the nobles. They don't have to fight the Marines, as they're just taking orders from the higher authority, the Gorousei. As in real revolutions, you fight the army only if absolutely necessary. If not, you go straight for the head. If Dragon overthrows the Gorousei, he'll have control of the Marines. Simple as that. A lot of successful coups involved getting the revolutionaries into key places of the government, sometimes avoiding the military completely, and swiftly taking control by taking down the last remaining important figures of the state, then declaring the creation of the new Republic/Empire/Democracy/Dictatorship/Whatever.

2010-03-29, 14:56	Link #265
John D. Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010	While the different countries of the World Governant have military forces (as Alabasta), the Marines are a neutral force directly under the command of the WG and most of the higher cast among the marines have fully embraced the ideals of the WG (Sengoku, Akainu, many of the VA's, Kizuro to an unknown degree). If Dragon pull a suprise hit on the Gorousei and take them out I don't think the marines will bend the knee to Dragon. We do not know exactly what sort of ideals Dragon stand for and what sort of governant he wants, but we can guess it's a revoltionary change from the WG, and I simply can't see the marines accept that. Not unless Sengoku, Akainu etc. are removed (or have a stunning change of heart) and the marines higher officiers (Fleet Admiral, Admirals, VA's) share Coby's beliefs. (That is how I think it'll play out though, Coby will be the pebble in the pool and overtime the marines will change)

2010-03-29, 15:34	Link #268
james0246 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East Cupcake	^I read the expression as Kizaru simply goofing off again...but, he did smile when facing Rayleigh as well, and we know, somewhat, how that turned out... edit: damn cell connection, cheese4u beat me to the punch ...

2010-03-29, 23:52	Link #275
Sazelyt Μ ε r c ü r υ Join Date: Jun 2004	I don't think WG would want to face Shanks in addition to the rest they are fighting, so I wonder how they will put an end to this fight in a way that will not disgrace their name and honor, while everyone watching the ongoing battle around the world...

2010-03-30, 00:37	Link #276
Hisoka?? Ultra noob Join Date: Dec 2004	why didn't 8/10 of the marines start frothing at the mouth and collapse now that Shanks is here? If he had that effect on White beard's crew, the same should apply for the marine grunts.

2010-03-30, 01:43	Link #278
james0246 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East Cupcake	Don't worry, next chapter 60 plus thousand marines will collapse in a heap, leaving only the top marines fighting against the top pirates...then the other Yonkou will show up...and Tom will pull up with Mei-Ō Rayleigh in tow...then, just for kicks, Fisher Tiger will crawl out of his grave...in other words, it'll be a bad day to be a marine...

2010-03-30, 03:08	Link #279
mechalord Deploying Funnel Cakes Join Date: Jan 2008	Most pirates aren't good guys. Blackbeard, for example, is not a good guy. Luffy isn't real pirate. The Straw Hats are kind of like the A Team. They are mercenary do-gooders that kind of work for nothing. A lot of the dudes Luffy has fought have been pirates. A lot of those pirates get by through pirating, preying on unarmed civilian and government vessels.