AnimeSuki Forums

Tiresias · 2011-10-25, 22:56

...Didn't Rocky lost the fight against Apollo Creed?

Eh, whatever, not interested in the lolis anyway

. I guess it would be a while before the older girls are shown fighting again?

Enternal · 2011-10-25, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skane

The fun is in seeing/reading how they win their fights, assuming it is scripted correctly. It's like watching Rocky. You know Rocky will win, but you want to be entertained by his journey to that victory.

Cheers.

Yeah this is what I feel and think as well. We all know the "good" guys will win but will they win by coming in and nuking the "bad" guys or will they come in and slap the bad guys with a feather duster... yeah something like that. And... the "good" guys do lose once in a while though... so who knows Einhart might lose in the future. Remember that Vivio did lose to her before too so it's not like the main characters always come out victorious.

Akiyoshi · 2011-10-25, 23:56

Yep, predictable. But the i want to see the full context to see if Einhart was able to completely turn the tables on Corona or if she only gets lucky and manage to win by an inch.

At least this put Einhart in a more realistical disadvantage against Sieglinde, sionce her first appearance as "Hegemon" there was this aura of superioryto around her. Beating Nove, defeating Vivio twice, learning and mastering new techniques with ease, giving a hard battle to the freaking White Devil. It was very shocking seeing her trounced by the squishy wizard of the group but that reveals the fact that Einhart is not that great of a fighter after all ....which means a truly hard battle awaits for her.

For now my bets are on Sieglinde, then we have the obligatory final match of the old champ against Vivio where our little protagonist will defeat her in Einhart's name, or at least, scoring a moral victory.

Talking about moral victory, even if Einhart win the match i still think Corona is the real one who came out victorious from it. as much as i like Miura i think she's doomed if she gets to fight Vivio, the Takamachi succesor have a new defense stronger than any Kaiser Armor ...it's called Plot Armor.

Justin_Brett · 2011-10-26, 02:14

If it was obvious, then why are you guys acting all smug about being right?

Iromaru · 2011-10-26, 02:19

Tsuzuki's writing ability strikes again. This franchise will really go nowhere with that guy in charge.

Anyways, at least it was an enjoyable fight to read.

vic-vic · 2011-10-26, 02:49

Spoiler for some thoughts about new chapter:

Akiyoshi · 2011-10-26, 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by vic-vic

Spoiler for some thoughts about new chapter:

Spoiler for lol:

mechdra · 2011-10-26, 04:32

Predictable, this is like a typical fighting tournament in a shonen manga. Let's move on and see what next.

Sheba · 2011-10-26, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iromaru

Tsuzuki's writing ability strikes again. This franchise will really go nowhere with that guy in charge.

Anyways, at least it was an enjoyable fight to read.

Man, how much I have dreamed of Gen Urobuchi taking over the franchise after having seen how he have done it in Fate with Fate/Zero.

I bet you he would come up with something crazy like Shamal portaling a multi-warheads ICBM over a Huckie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiresias

...Didn't Rocky lost the fight against Apollo Creed?

He lost against Apollo in the first movie but he won the crowd. Like how Maximus won the crowd.

Akiyoshi · 2011-10-26, 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

Man, how much I have dreamed of Gen Urobuchi taking over the franchise after having seen how he have done it in Fate with Fate/Zero.

I bet you he would come up with something crazy like Shamal portaling a multi-warheads ICBM over a Huckie.

That could be a pretty nice change, Tsuzuki apparently is making efforts to make his characters a bit less fantastic in Force which is a shame. At least Vivid seems to be pointing in tyhe opposite direction with al the new and inventive magic styles, i already want to see that little witch in action.

Justin_Brett · 2011-10-26, 11:04

I don't know why that is. You can certainly have a serious plot with weird powers. Just look at almost every other manga ever.

Goldsmith · 2011-10-26, 12:36

Why is it bad writing to have the obvious outcome happen? You might as well say that 90% of anime, manga, movies, and TV shows have terrible writing because the main character wins.

Craxuan · 2011-10-26, 12:55

*pops in* Which is why we fanfiction writers exist! *pops out*

00-Raiser · 2011-10-26, 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

Man, how much I have dreamed of Gen Urobuchi taking over the franchise after having seen how he have done it in Fate with Fate/Zero.

I bet you he would come up with something crazy like Shamal portaling a multi-warheads ICBM over a Huckie.

An ill fitting example, as Fate's setting allows for Gen's writing style to go in that direction. Nasu's writing was already excellent so it's not like Gen did much to improve it.

Kuze · 2011-10-26, 13:48

I hesitate to say this without the raw, but this isn't a question so much about plot predictability as it is plot necessity. With Season 1, Fate and Nanoha absolutely had to fight it out, Fate's very existence as a character depended on being convinced by Nanoha that she had a shot at her own life. That's the shortened abridged version of it, I know I left quite a few things out, not the point.

Here in Vivid, why exactly is it so vital that Einhart and Vivio face off, again for rematch number 4?

Should other contenders be given the boot not because they are worse fighters, or had less determination, or used their brains less, or weren't loli enough, but because they weren't Ein or Vi?

There's absolutely nothing at stake here. There shouldn't have to be any kind of "x ABSOLUTELY MUST HAPPEN true facts", it's a sandbox for plot. Removing all the tension, and then forcing the story down one narrow route is just laaaaame. It's insipid.

Justin_Brett · 2011-10-26, 17:22

Having Einhart lose here would be a pretty meaningless twist, though. Just being unexpected doesn't make something good, any more than the hero always winning is acceptable every time.

And if you're complaining about two people fighting just because, what about As, StrikerS or Force?

00-Raiser · 2011-10-26, 18:00

I think Einhart will pretty much have to lose in the end. She's still kinda hung up on proving her ancestor was the strongest so when she loses after a long and satisfying fight she'll learn that it's fine not being the strongest and it's enough to just have fun.

bhl88 · 2011-10-26, 18:02

... Vivio will try to comfort her and advance until she gets beaten up too.

Kaijo · 2011-10-26, 18:04

I'm sorry, is someone still reading Vivid for the plot? :P I don't know about you all, but I stopped expecting any interesting plot lines 10 chapters ago. Now I'm in it simply to see the interesting magic applications.^^

And yes, typical shounen outcome.

Referee: "...And the winner by meaningful flashback... Einhart!"
Corona: "Pooh. If only I had a tortured past that I could flashback to mid-fight..."

Tiresias · 2011-10-26, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

Man, how much I have dreamed of Gen Urobuchi taking over the franchise after having seen how he have done it in Fate with Fate/Zero.

His style doesn't fit Vivid. Force on the other hand...

Quote:

I bet you he would come up with something crazy like Shamal portaling a multi-warheads ICBM over a Huckie.

...and I must admit this would be cathartic.

Quote:

He lost against Apollo in the first movie but he won the crowd. Like how Maximus won the crowd.

Yeah, but what I'm commenting was that Skane said that the hero winning their fights

Then again, I'll laugh my ass out if Vivio demolish every other opponent, win against Heidi in an epic clash...and then lose against Sieg in the final match, just like how Al Sanders wiped the floor with Negi on the Mahora Tournament

. The Rocky comparison suddenly become more fitting (Negi won the crowd there too)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Nasu's writing was already excellent so it's not like Gen did much to improve it.

So...you believe that Tsuzuki's writing could use much improvement? I never thought we have something in common

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaijo

I'm sorry, is someone still reading Vivid for the plot? :P I don't know about you all, but I stopped expecting any interesting plot lines 10 chapters ago. Now I'm in it simply to see the interesting magic applications.^^

I've been veering to this direction, but looks like it's time to take this advice to heart. No point in disillusioning one self.

Quote:

Referee: "...And the winner by meaningful flashback... Einhart!"
Corona: "Pooh. If only I had a tortured past that I could flashback to mid-fight..."

Note to cast: if you don't actually have a tortured past to flashback, fake one!

2011-10-25, 22:56	Link #1301
Tiresias Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00) Age: 37	...Didn't Rocky lost the fight against Apollo Creed? Eh, whatever, not interested in the lolis anyway . I guess it would be a while before the older girls are shown fighting again? __________________ Last edited by Tiresias; 2011-10-25 at 23:13.

2011-10-25, 23:56	Link #1303
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Yep, predictable. But the i want to see the full context to see if Einhart was able to completely turn the tables on Corona or if she only gets lucky and manage to win by an inch. At least this put Einhart in a more realistical disadvantage against Sieglinde, sionce her first appearance as "Hegemon" there was this aura of superioryto around her. Beating Nove, defeating Vivio twice, learning and mastering new techniques with ease, giving a hard battle to the freaking White Devil. It was very shocking seeing her trounced by the squishy wizard of the group but that reveals the fact that Einhart is not that great of a fighter after all ....which means a truly hard battle awaits for her. For now my bets are on Sieglinde, then we have the obligatory final match of the old champ against Vivio where our little protagonist will defeat her in Einhart's name, or at least, scoring a moral victory. Talking about moral victory, even if Einhart win the match i still think Corona is the real one who came out victorious from it. as much as i like Miura i think she's doomed if she gets to fight Vivio, the Takamachi succesor have a new defense stronger than any Kaiser Armor ...it's called Plot Armor. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2011-10-26, 02:49	Link #1306
vic-vic Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: forge-world Moscow 1 Age: 37	Spoiler for some thoughts about new chapter: just look how tenderly Einhart hug fallen Corona, maybe she want to switch love interest? Or maybe start a harem?

2011-10-26, 12:55	Link #1313
Craxuan Crax Author Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: MY	pops in Which is why we fanfiction writers exist! pops out __________________

2011-10-26, 18:00	Link #1317
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	I think Einhart will pretty much have to lose in the end. She's still kinda hung up on proving her ancestor was the strongest so when she loses after a long and satisfying fight she'll learn that it's fine not being the strongest and it's enough to just have fun. __________________

2011-10-26, 02:14	Link #1304
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	If it was obvious, then why are you guys acting all smug about being right?

2011-10-26, 02:19	Link #1305
Iromaru Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007	Tsuzuki's writing ability strikes again. This franchise will really go nowhere with that guy in charge. Anyways, at least it was an enjoyable fight to read.

2011-10-26, 04:32	Link #1308
mechdra Senior Member Join Date: May 2006	Predictable, this is like a typical fighting tournament in a shonen manga. Let's move on and see what next.

2011-10-26, 11:04	Link #1311
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	I don't know why that is. You can certainly have a serious plot with weird powers. Just look at almost every other manga ever.

2011-10-26, 12:36	Link #1312
Goldsmith Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009	Why is it bad writing to have the obvious outcome happen? You might as well say that 90% of anime, manga, movies, and TV shows have terrible writing because the main character wins.

2011-10-26, 13:48	Link #1315
Kuze Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011	I hesitate to say this without the raw, but this isn't a question so much about plot predictability as it is plot necessity. With Season 1, Fate and Nanoha absolutely had to fight it out, Fate's very existence as a character depended on being convinced by Nanoha that she had a shot at her own life. That's the shortened abridged version of it, I know I left quite a few things out, not the point. Here in Vivid, why exactly is it so vital that Einhart and Vivio face off, again for rematch number 4? Should other contenders be given the boot not because they are worse fighters, or had less determination, or used their brains less, or weren't loli enough, but because they weren't Ein or Vi? There's absolutely nothing at stake here. There shouldn't have to be any kind of "x ABSOLUTELY MUST HAPPEN true facts", it's a sandbox for plot. Removing all the tension, and then forcing the story down one narrow route is just laaaaame. It's insipid.

2011-10-26, 17:22	Link #1316
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Having Einhart lose here would be a pretty meaningless twist, though. Just being unexpected doesn't make something good, any more than the hero always winning is acceptable every time. And if you're complaining about two people fighting just because, what about As, StrikerS or Force?

2011-10-26, 18:02	Link #1318
bhl88 Otaku Apprentice Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Unseen Horizon	... Vivio will try to comfort her and advance until she gets beaten up too. __________________ OS-tan Collections (temporary): https://discord.gg/Hv2rBs3

2011-10-26, 18:04	Link #1319
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	I'm sorry, is someone still reading Vivid for the plot? :P I don't know about you all, but I stopped expecting any interesting plot lines 10 chapters ago. Now I'm in it simply to see the interesting magic applications.^^ And yes, typical shounen outcome. Referee: "...And the winner by meaningful flashback... Einhart!" Corona: "Pooh. If only I had a tortured past that I could flashback to mid-fight..."