[MANGA] Bleach Chapter 460 Discussion

[JustRob]

Well to be honest I feel kind of relieved. When we were first introduced to the Fullbringers, I thought every single one of them except Ginjo were extremely boring. We got the loud screaming girl, the serious looking old guy butler, the cool kid, etc.... I'm glad they're not here to stay.

As for Ginjo / Tsukishima, we probably haven't seen the last of em.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by felix

Seems I am the only one who found the chapter bad.

The little rukia moment was satisfying, but Ichigo has been having these slumps so often over the course of the series it's not really funny anymore, it's sad and annoying; and pretty much turns any (future) "character development" into "oh no that's just Ichigo, he's faking and fronting like usual when he's on HEROine". Really, how pathetic is he; this chapter pretty much just made him more of a conceited fool then he already was by showing that instant-smug as soon as he got his power back, which Kubo just pulled out of everyone's ass, literally (great writing). Every time you see Ichigo in an awesome pose, keep this in mind: in five chapters or less he's going to revert back to a pathetic looser, dumb as a plank (but don't worry there will be characters there to explain common sense to him) and utterly and completely powerless (but don't worry there will be characters there to pump him up too). But hey he's got the "srs busyines" look on his face, which is pretty much Kubo's solution to all character problems, and god help us it's worked so far apparently (on Aizen it's still working ).

And also, what's with the captain parade? is Ichigo a prince now? Why the hell do they need Ichigo anyway? Not enough fools running around with enough power in their penis-sword to blow away a house in one swing, along with all of their friends, family, loved ones and a few unimportant side characters? Why is everyone there so "this is normal (just forget all the plot and character relationships/backstories up till now)".

I felt the same way too but to honest I care so little about Ichigo's ridiculously flat character these days, so it wasn't that big of a deal to me. I liked it because we got to see Rukia again and the look on Ginjou's face as he gets his ass handed to him. Not really interested in the captains (never have been).

[Azure King]

Can someone explain to me if the final GT rant was all a lie? wasn't he suppose to lose all his powers or this just another plot hole?

The only thing i can think off is, they collected whats left of ichigo "soul/GT" turn it into that blade and kick start it with all the the other shinigami that had a close connection to ichigo.

[Merilyn Mensola]

Finally..his power is back...
But..i really hope..to see again Ichigo hollow..for me, is the best
Ichigo Hollow bad ass...like vs Ulquiorra...but this time..the body normal, and the mask like this....

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Azure King

Can someone explain to me if the final GT rant was all a lie? wasn't he suppose to lose all his powers or this just another plot hole?

The only thing i can think off is, they collected whats left of ichigo "soul/GT" turn it into that blade and kick start it with all the the other shinigami that had a close connection to ichigo.

He was supposed to lose all of his shinigami powers but there were already hints suggesting Ichigo could regain his powers even before it was revealed he would lose them. Isshin hinted that he learned the Final GT aswell in chapter 409 and it was stated beforehand that he had to regain his shinigami powers, indicating that he lost them at some point.

We don't know why he still has deep wells of shinigami power so hopefully we'll get an explanation why. In any case the fact that he still had deep wells clearly contradicts the idea that ichigo was going to lose all his shinigami powers, thus cheapening the drama we were supposed to but didn't because we already knew this was going to happen anyway felt when we realised Ichigo would lose his powers.

[JustRob]

Well it's not like they could ever pull off something like that effectively. If Ichigo lost his powers for good then Bleach is over.

[Haak]

That's the problem with Kubo. He writes himself into stupid corners where the only ways out is to write something even more stupid. It would be far better if he just avoided those corners through proper planning in the first place. In this case he could've avoided those corners by simply not have Ichigo lose his shinigami powers or, even better, have more main characters instead of just one, so that when one goes down like that the story can still continue.

[Butagami]

Originally Posted by dragonmeister

Byakuya's lost his Kenseikan hair-pieces and scarf! Combined with his new haori (with the collar and short sleeves), it seems like he's spent too much time around Kenpachi in the past year or so - Kenpachi's lack of bells is suggesting that the process is not just one-way - soon the two characters will be near-identical, and fans of both will weep.

By the way, does anyone else think that Renji's lack of fukutaicho armband is significant?(considering the amount of attention to detail shown in the big, two-page fanservice drawing)

Renji's gonna pull a captain's haori from behind his back "see this Ichigo, I be captain now, Hell Yeah!"

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by JustRob

Well to be honest I feel kind of relieved. When we were first introduced to the Fullbringers, I thought every single one of them except Ginjo were extremely boring. We got the loud screaming girl, the serious looking old guy butler, the cool kid, etc.... I'm glad they're not here to stay.

As for Ginjo / Tsukishima, we probably haven't seen the last of em.

You think the other fullbringers will fade away? Maybe. Happened with the vizards. I think we'll be seeing more from all of them though.

Originally Posted by Butagami

Renji's gonna pull a captain's haori from behind his back "see this Ichigo, I be captain now, Hell Yeah!"

*thumbs up*

[JustRob]

Well since they're evil (I guess) they can't stay around for too long (I guess). At least I hope not. There's a reason why the Fanservice Captain Squad came down to the living world. Maybe they see the Fullbringers as a threat, much like they did the Quincy's.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Haak

That's the problem with Kubo. He writes himself into stupid corners where the only ways out is to write something even more stupid. It would be far better if he just avoided those corners through proper planning in the first place. In this case he could've avoided those corners by simply not have Ichigo lose his shinigami powers or, even better, have more main characters instead of just one, so that when one goes down like that the story can still continue.

Sound like Naruto. Well, seems to work some times, and so-so other times. I guess it kinda works for the most part though, since you can always have a character haul ass when everyone else fails, thus avoiding really pathetic situations. It's much easier to make believe characters appearing out of nowhere when those characters actually do stuff all the time and don't just act as canon fodder for the epic battle at the end of an arc. As in like with the captains, if they were more active and were roaming in and out of SS then it would be a little more believable how they would just randomly intervene, and we wouldn't even need excuses like "well ichigo single handedly saved the universe blah blah" either.

Just a thought.

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by Haak

That's the problem with Kubo. He writes himself into stupid corners where the only ways out is to write something even more stupid. It would be far better if he just avoided those corners through proper planning in the first place. In this case he could've avoided those corners by simply not have Ichigo lose his shinigami powers or, even better, have more main characters instead of just one, so that when one goes down like that the story can still continue.

Deicide was Kubo's only true mistake. He overpowered Ichigo and too get rid off the over powering he had to lose all of his powers, but if Kubo just came out with the seal this wouldn't have ever happened in the first place. After all Ichigo lost to Aizen

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by JustRob

Well since they're evil (I guess) they can't stay around for too long (I guess). At least I hope not. There's a reason why the Fanservice Captain Squad came down to the living world. Maybe they see the Fullbringers as a threat, much like they did the Quincy's.

Well the fullbringers are only evil if they're all sleeper enemies like Ginjou was, otherwise it's possible they were just deceived like Chad was.

[lucasd]

Kubo &logic does not add up
Vizards:
You know we are captains from old, so we are as powerful as old ones, but you know we acquired secret hollow powers, which makes us so powerful as vice-captains

And about evil fullbringers, what they did wrong, excluding stealing power from Ihcigo which BTW they GIVEN him and attacking Ishida (but be careful to not kill him)?
They were even leaving powerless Ichigo behind...

[JustRob]

Yea well they kinda screwed over Ichigo's family and all of his friends into thinking Tsukishima is their best pal. Remember it can only be undone if Tsukishima slashes them again, and I don't think he's jumping.

As for the Vizard captains, so far we have only seen their shikais. Who knows what their bankai is like. We almost got to see Kensei's, and then we never heard from him again. It's that powerful.

[lucasd]

Altering memory to add one cousin they like is hardly super evil.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by lucasd

Altering memory to add one cousin they like is hardly super evil.

Of course it isn't. What is evil is altering their memory to add one cousin, and making that cousin appear to be an integral part of everything they've been through since Ichigo first became a Shinigami, all for the sake of making Ichigo look like the bad guy when he tries to fight said cousin.

I don't know about you, but manipulating their minds to make Ichigo into the bad guy seems kinda evil to me.

Edit: As for the rest of Xcution being evil, I'm reserving judgment on that. Yukio's earlier comment about it being time for Ginjou to "wake up" implies they were in on the whole thing, but we can't say for sure yet that they were, unless I'm forgetting something.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Akashin

Edit: As for the rest of Xcution being evil, I'm reserving judgment on that. Yukio's earlier comment about it being time for Ginjou to "wake up" implies they were in on the whole thing, but we can't say for sure yet that they were, unless I'm forgetting something.

I'm leaning towards them all being evil.
I mean if they were not it would be hard for Ginjou to mix himself into their group; i mean how could they know tsuikishima was evil but not ginjo aswell? Afterall ginjo only had his personality re-written after he assaulted ishida, and i think they did say that ginjo was a poor actor. seems like a tough sell. I guess you could argue that tsuikishima altered their memories TWICE, first to accept ginjo as part of their group and then again to have them change sides, but then we are just getting kind of convoluted

No its just much more simple for them to all be allies from the start and that they went through the same process as ginjo. Besides, this arc needs a crop of villians for all the side characters to fight... i mean we can't really assume the fullbringers are really gonna end right here and now; afterall we haven't even got an explaination on WHY ginjo needed to steal Ichigo's fullbring powers

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

I'm leaning towards them all being evil.
I mean if they were not it would be hard for Ginjou to mix himself into their group; i mean how could they know tsuikishima was evil but not ginjo aswell? Afterall ginjo only had his personality re-written after he assaulted ishida, and i think they did say that ginjo was a poor actor. seems like a tough sell.

Chad was a part of Xcution too. When exactly he joined is unclear, probably after the others, but it was before Ishida was attacked because the others noticed his absence from school. If Chad was lead to believe Ginjou was good and Tsukishima was evil, then it's possible the others were lead to believe that too. And it wouldn't necessarily even involve Tsukishima changing their pasts, Ginjou could've just been playing the part of their comrade from the beginning like Aizen did.

Riruka at least, probably isn't evil, because she has a crush on Ichigo and a soft spot for Orihime. She'll end up switching sides if it turns out the rest are bad guys.

[JustRob]

Yeah after reading some chapters over I'm also pretty convinced they're in on it. Chapter 454, page 17, Yukio tells Ginjo "Nobody's angry at you, in fact we feel sorry for you. We'll get you back to normal in no time".

I guess that really means Yukio and the others knew what was going on all the time. I'm surprised though that Riruka could be such a comedian in such a situation.