(L) Genshiken 2 (Nidaime)

[Alhazred]

Huh... interesting to note that when she's all worked up over the 'contest' to see who gets sent to check on Madarame, Keiko actually uses his real name (or rather 'Madaramenchi,' a nickname of similar construction to Yajima's 'Yajimacchi') rather than 'Watanabe.' The lady doth protest too much, methinks...

Edit: Hmm... though its hard to say whether or not Kio will turn this around into a, "Tsunderes like that don't actually exist in real life," situation or not. He's been playing some of the tropes straight or maybe just slightly curved pretty often in nidaime - and even if it's a stereotype, some people do act that way sometimes. ^_^;

[kazzuya13]

I kinda miss the kujibiki reference they did before nidaime. I miss kaicho. Like all other guys in genshiken I don't really like the remake. I watch clips of it.

[mangamuscle]

I think that after the low sales expectations of the TV adaption, the author might be rethinking his long term strategy and all this confession is a shift from a Hato centric into a Madarame centric plot. Not that Hato will disappear or anything, but he will become a support character now. Until school starts again Hato will probably not appear at all and an unemployed and sick Madarame will make his own version of A Christmas Carol, where three ghostsgirls will visit him on his apartment and chaos will ensue

[Jan-Poo]

So after the rather inconclusive anime ending I decided to catch up with the manga and... how should I put it, the last chapter was really weird, it went like "Madarame broke his arm, let's all go to a bath house!"

Kuchiki was the last person I would choose to accompany an injured person to the hospital but I guess it was just an excuse to not let him go to the bath house with everyone else. In other words the priority is the bath house, Madarame's broken arm is a secondary matter. Okay...

I'm kinda disappointed at the rather hurried development of Hato's situation, he barely had the time to realize his own feelings and everyone already knows and accepted it. I thought it could have been a good chance to show some internal struggle and some kind of funny interactions with the remaining cast, but it went all like that, okay Hato is in love with Madarame let's move on.

Anyway it's kinda fun that currently the situation is "Angela isn't fit for Madarame", "Keiko isn't fit for Madarame", "Sue denies that she's in love with Madarame", so the most viable option right now is the one that was supposed to be the least viable.

At any rate neither Angela nor Keiko are serious about Madarame, so I think those two are already out of the game, Sue is a strange case, I was actually surprised when she started acting strange around Madarame especially after all that she did to support her MadaxHato shipping.

[Utsuro no Hako]

I think the anime's bath house episode was superior to the manga's.

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

I think that after the low sales expectations of the TV adaption, the author might be rethinking his long term strategy and all this confession is a shift from a Hato centric into a Madarame centric plot.

Didn't this arc start before the sales figure came out?

[Aesthetic Shampoo]

Why would the anime sales affect the manga?

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by EssTEss

Why would the anime sales affect the manga?

They might, not quite sure they do or that they will though.

Certainly it can't be denied that the author advertized the anime a lot, he basically mention it in every single chapter since it was announced.
He has evident interests in the anime being watched and selling which means he might want to make a story that will please not only manga readers but also the watchers of the anime adaption.

However if the BD sales are so poor that a further anime adaption will never be made the author might as well stop bothering.
I don't think that's likely though. The sales so far aren't exceptional bad not disastrous either. The franchise is successful enough to warrant some more adaptions.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Kuchiki was the last person I would choose to accompany an injured person to the hospital but I guess it was just an excuse to not let him go to the bath house with everyone else. In other words the priority is the bath house, Madarame's broken arm is a secondary matter. Okay...

Remember it is the second time Madarame has broken his hand at the comiket (karma ia a bitch, ain't it?) so for the old timers it was "been there, done that .." kind of situation, telling kuchi to escort Madarame was an obvious cue for the old timers to also come along (sasahara is from the same generation as kohsaka).

At any rate neither Angela nor Keiko are serious about Madarame, so I think those two are already out of the game, Sue is a strange case, I was actually surprised when she started acting strange around Madarame especially after all that she did to support her MadaxHato shipping.

Angela is as much of a mistery as Sue, we do not know anything about them so ATM it is hard to tell how serious they are, my bet is that there are plenty of surprises in store.

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

Didn't this arc start before the sales figure came out?

The arc started long ago, but Angela's confession has changed the dynamic of the plot, think about it, four years had to go by for Mada to confess to Saki, about six months into the new generation we are witness of a triple confession.

Originally Posted by EssTEss

Why would the anime sales affect the manga?

Because an anime can increase popularity exponentially and if there is no improvement at all the editors might pressure the mangaka to finish this and start something new (that might have the potential to do better) or worse, there might be new talent who might get those pages in the magazine. A publisher that does not renovate their series can be in a dead end (I think that has happened to the magazine that published the Haruhi Light novel).

I say these because I feel that the scene where Sasahara appears out of nowhere to lecture Ogiue about how important is for a mangaka to enjoy what he publishes (even though readers opinion is king) after her manga had bad reviews was an inner dialogue from the mangaka, since no doubt readers in japan must say the samething i have read in this and other english messageboards "Hato is a weak lead", "too much BL", "it was better when the focus was Madarame and co." so he must have decided to give them what the want. Remember Lum (from Urusei Yatsura) was supposed to be a one-shot character but became the star due to readers mails, something similar happened in School Rumble. So, in Japan (unlike the USA), the author does not have a 100% control over their manga (unless it is kind of obscure, like Bastard!).

[teja208]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

So after the rather inconclusive anime ending I decided to catch up with the manga

Same here...

I guess I came in just in time when romance are heating up. Really enjoying how Mada Harem is shaping up here. Each of the harem members have different ways of expressing their love to Madarame, some are more subtle than the others which I find very interesting. Actually, I have a few things I would like to comment about each of the Mada Harem members. It’s nothing major, but it still bothers me a bit.

About Susie
I have no problem with her falling for Madarame. I’m actually quite welcome such development. What surprised me more is the manner in which she falls in love. It doesn’t seem to fit her established character, but yes, it’s still funny as hell. I sort of expect her to be more of an aggressive/forward type when it comes to romance. I always had the impression that Sue is an eccentric girl with a very bold and straightforward in both personality and action. However, the way she behaves right now in front of Madarame reminds more of how a sweet, shy, clumsy girl usually a generic MC in a shoujo manga falls in love. It’s hilarious and yet ironic at the same time. Remember that this is the same girl who shamelessly asked Ogiue to lend her some pantsu and demanded Madarame for a piggy back ride back in the original Genshiken, and now well… she can’t even stare at Madarame straight in the eyes?

About Hato
Likewise, I have no problem with him falling for Madarame. Before going to the real issue, I first would like to admit that I was wrong about him not being gay. The emerging of Kaminaga-senpai ghost-like-being left me shock and speechless for a few minutes. I never would’ve anticipated such development in 10,000 years, but it’s obvious that upon her arrival marks the period in which Hato fascination of BL seems to take a step further to the point where he starts to desire something beyond his BL fantasies and losing control of himself in the process. This is where I can no longer deny that he isn’t gay for Madarame.

Actually Hato turning gay isn’t an issue either. The following is the real issue. Recall that the initial reason why Hato decided to start crossdressing is because he feels uncomfortable about people around him calling him gay back in high school after learning about his fascination of BL. Instead of quitting BL to conform to what society expect from his gender, he goes the other way around and almost completely reverse his gender to fit his hobbies. After that, he came to love his new found crossdressing identity. Now after entering university, he finally found a place where people shares his hobbies and not labeling him gay, and then he turn into one. Ironic isn’t it? Hato is becoming the very thing he wants to avoid being accused of in the first place. This is why, even though his friends may accept him like what Kousaka said, I can see why it’s much harder for him to accept himself.

Another thing that’s worries Hato is how his confession would affect his relationship with Madarame. Some of you may think that Madarame is a total idiot for not being able to figure out the identity of his last remaining harem member, but maybe it’s because he believes in Hato’s words, “I’m not into other guys.” He takes them seriously, so he tries to not to consider this possibility. If that’s the case, what would he think of Hato if his sexuality comes into the open? Will he feel betrayed? I bet that’s what Hato’s thinking.

About Angela
Nothing much I can say about her. Unlike other three, I just find it a bit strange that she seems somewhere between so delightful and thrill after knowing that she has so many love competitors especially her reaction when she found out about Sue. I’d like to see that scene animated though.

About Keiko
She’s obviously Tsundere for Madarame, but quite realistically portrayed. Not so over-the-top violent or abusive tusntsun, but not showing too much obvious signs of deredere either (not yet). She actually falls somewhere between Type A and B which made her a very interesting tsundere character.

Actually the issue I had doesn’t concerns her directly, but has more to do with her brother. Yes, I’m referring to the former protagonist. His reaction after Kousaka mentioned the possibility of his sister falling for Madarame. He seems to blatantly object it as much as Madarame. Is he a siscon? Nah, he attitude toward his sister already given, and I also remember back in the old days of the original series where his sister used to hooked up with some unknown guy, he doesn’t seem to care that much about it. Therefore, the only other reason I can think of as to why he so overreacting to the idea of his sister dating Madarame is because he doesn’t want to be related with Madarame. Well, guess it can’t be helped since Madarame as of now is nothing more than a failure of a human being.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

Remember it is the second time Madarame has broken his hand at the comiket (karma ia a bitch, ain't it?) so for the old timers it was "been there, done that .." kind of situation, telling kuchi to escort Madarame was an obvious cue for the old timers to also come along (sasahara is from the same generation as kohsaka).

Yeah I know, I didn't forget that, and I guess that it's understandable if they don't feel as worried as the first time but I'm pretty sure that for Madarame the fact that he already broke an arm before doesn't mean that it hurts less the second time. They could have tried to at least appear a bit more concerned out of consideration. But I guess that's something that should be expected from Kohsaka.

@teja208

Regarding Sasahara and Keiko I think that for the former it's simply that he can't see her sister hooking up with someone like Madarame. That's pretty much the same reaction that everyone who knew their characters superficially would have. Of course you may object that being her brother Sasahara should know her sister better, but that's really not always the case. I think that those two never really understood each others.

Regarding Hato I see your point. It's basically a moral defeat for him, because it's like to admit that a boy liking BL that much in the end is gay or a closeted gay which was something that he tried to strongly object for all this time. Well it actually doesn't prove that a perfectly heterosexual guy can't be into that stuff, but it still failed to prove the opposite.
Then again Hato had already crossed many more lines than simply liking BL and even than simply crossdressing.

Regarding Angela and Keiko the fact that they aren't jealous is one of the things that makes me think they aren't that serious. Well Keiko is actually suspiciously hostile towards Angela and Hato, but I think it's more rivalry than actual jealousy. She was totally fine about Sue being the one to visit Madarame for some reasons.

Anyway now I'm honestly curious, what do people think about the possible scenario where Madarame and Hato become a couple like Ogiue and Sasahara, Saki and Kousaka or Ohno and Tanaka?

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by teja208

About Susie

Believe it or not I have always thought the opposite since Sue made her debut in Genshiken, she is a really, really, really shy girl. No doubt she learned (or maybe is still learning) martial arts so she can subdue the average male if needs be. But that does not change that she is shy, most of the time she talks using punchlines and she never talks about herself even though she has spent months at the genshiken office.

Actually the issue I had doesn’t concerns her directly, but has more to do with her brother. Yes, I’m referring to the former protagonist. His reaction after Kousaka mentioned the possibility of his sister falling for Madarame. He seems to blatantly object it as much as Madarame. Is he a siscon? Nah, he attitude toward his sister already given, and I also remember back in the old days of the original series where his sister used to hooked up with some unknown guy, he doesn’t seem to care that much about it. Therefore, the only other reason I can think of as to why he so overreacting to the idea of his sister dating Madarame is because he doesn’t want to be related with Madarame. Well, guess it can’t be helped since Madarame as of now is nothing more than a failure of a human being.

There is another possibility; Sasahara cares for Madarame, I think no one can think otherwise, yet he knows her sister has been the kind of girl that changes boyfriends like underwear and no doubt many of those breakups had quite some (off screen) drama that he does not want Madarame to suffer, that is why he is opposed, because he has no reason to believe her sister wants a serious relation with Madarame, he sees her as the big bad wolf and Madarame as red riding hood

[teja208]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

Believe it or not I have always thought the opposite since Sue made her debut in Genshiken, she is a really, really, really shy girl. No doubt she learned (or maybe is still learning) martial arts so she can subdue the average male if needs be. But that does not change that she is shy, most of the time she talks using punchlines and she never talks about herself even though she has spent months at the genshiken office.



There is another possibility; Sasahara cares for Madarame, I think no one can think otherwise, yet he knows her sister has been the kind of girl that changes boyfriends like underwear and no doubt many of those breakups had quite some (off screen) drama that he does not want Madarame to suffer, that is why he is opposed, because he has no reason to believe her sister wants a serious relation with Madarame, he sees her as the big bad wolf and Madarame as red riding hood

That's an interesting way to interpret Sue's character. Out of all the characters in this series, she is the one the author least explore, so there are various ways of interpreating her personality based on her actions.

Oh that's right, about Sasahara, you just remind me of another possible explanation...

Spoiler for ...:

...
...
...
...
...
Sasa x Mada?

[AstroNerdBoy]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

I think that after the low sales expectations of the TV adaption, the author might be rethinking his long term strategy and all this confession is a shift from a Hato centric into a Madarame centric plot. Not that Hato will disappear or anything, but he will become a support character now.

I rather hope that's the case. I've grown weary of Hato as a character, though he would become more interesting if he got his own harem route. ^_~

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

So after the rather inconclusive anime ending I decided to catch up with the manga and... how should I put it, the last chapter was really weird, it went like "Madarame broke his arm, let's all go to a bath house!"

Kuchiki was the last person I would choose to accompany an injured person to the hospital but I guess it was just an excuse to not let him go to the bath house with everyone else. In other words the priority is the bath house, Madarame's broken arm is a secondary matter. Okay...

It wasn't just Kuchiki who went to the hospital with Madarame. Tanaka and Kugayama went with him too. That's why all three were at Madarame's apartment at the end of the chapter.

Besides, the broken wrist (or whatever it was) doesn't push the "Madarame's Harem" plot forward. It does remove him from the scene for a while, allowing the harem to have their competition and apparently establish Sue as the front runner.

I'm kinda disappointed at the rather hurried development of Hato's situation, he barely had the time to realize his own feelings and everyone already knows and accepted it. I thought it could have been a good chance to show some internal struggle and some kind of funny interactions with the remaining cast, but it went all like that, okay Hato is in love with Madarame let's move on.

I think we've known Hato's feelings for Madarame for a very long time now. To me, it is Hato finally going, "I'm not going to deny this any more" to which I said, "It's about fracking time!" ^_~

At any rate neither Angela nor Keiko are serious about Madarame, so I think those two are already out of the game,

I think Angela is very serious about wanting to have sex with Madarame. As far as an actual relationship goes, I never thought she was too serious about that considering how she's in America and he's in Japan, but since she does come over twice a year, they could have a long distance relationship.

Keiko came off kinda like I thought she would -- she denied everything, then went, "Well, if he begged me, I'd consider doing him." So she has an interest, but it just isn't relationship-worthy interest.

Sue is a strange case, I was actually surprised when she started acting strange around Madarame especially after all that she did to support her MadaxHato shipping.

I was just the opposite. I'd long been expressing a Sue x Madarame interest long before the school festival event. As I saw it, when Sue and Angela first came to Japan, the only people Sue gravitated to were Ogiue (for the BL doujinshi) and Madarame (whom she got to carry her around the temple at New Years).

When Nidaime started up, it was soon revealed that Sue knew where Madarame lived and Sue had Madarame's phone number. I found that to be interesting because it showed she had some level of interest, even if only friendly, in Madarame. Her suggestion that Hato use Madarame's place was born of that.

I think she became sexually attracted to Madarame on a certain level after seeing all of Ogiue's works featuring Madarame. However, since she's a fujoshi, and because she didn't understand her own feelings, she simply started directing Hato to Madarame. She probably saw Hato's feelings and went from there, not looking at her own.

Sue's actions against Angela and Kuchiki regarding Madarame came off to me as protecting her own interests rather than protecting Hato's.

However, when she kissed Madarame on the cheek during the school festival, I had my thoughts about Sue quietly having feelings for Madarame confirmed. A kiss on the cheek is not something done lightly. Sue had to feel some kind of closeness or connection with Madarame to go that far. That's why when Saki saw it, Sue had a mirror placed in front of her and she was forced to confront her own feelings.

Since then, Sue has been topsy-turvy. The barriers she had to protect herself are gone, thus she can no longer look at Madarame without blushing. Right now, she's desperately trying to return things to their former status, as witnessed by her "Ogiue is my waifu" mantra at the bath house. It won't work.

Man, I really hope Sue does go over to see Madarame and that his comrades bow out (dragging Kuchiki out if they have to).

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by teja208

Oh that's right, about Sasahara, you just remind me of another possible explanation...

Spoiler for ...:

...
...
...
...
...
Sasa x Mada?

If you wear your BL googles too tightly it might restrain blood circulation I should since I use my yuri googles continuosly

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

Man, I really hope Sue does go over to see Madarame and that his comrades bow out (dragging Kuchiki out if they have to).

Having Sue whip the floor with Kuchi (and throw him out of the apartment) to definitively asses who is the dominant wolf in these pack would be better IMO

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

The arc started long ago, but Angela's confession has changed the dynamic of the plot, think about it, four years had to go by for Mada to confess to Saki, about six months into the new generation we are witness of a triple confession.

Angela's confession (I assume you mean the group confession in 91) was published in the August chapter, wasn't it? The first disc didn't come out until the beginning of September.

[kniteowl]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

I was just the opposite. I'd long been expressing a Sue x Madarame interest long before the school festival event. As I saw it, when Sue and Angela first came to Japan, the only people Sue gravitated to were Ogiue (for the BL doujinshi) and Madarame (whom she got to carry her around the temple at New Years).

Really? When did you started reading Genshiken? There was like a 3 year Hiatus between volume 9 and 10. Well it wasn't a hiatus since Genshiken was originally meant to end with Volume 9.

At the time when I saw the Omake Chapter with Madarame carrying Sue around his shoulders, I was still a SakiXMada supporter and that Sue was more of a second Choice. I didn't become a more serious SueXMada Supporter, at least until Sue wanted to support Madarame to find new love in order to get over Saki, by showing him BL. When she did, I wondered if she subconsciously meant herself as an option to find new love but covered it up with BL.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Regarding Angela and Keiko the fact that they aren't jealous is one of the things that makes me think they aren't that serious. Well Keiko is actually suspiciously hostile towards Angela and Hato, but I think it's more rivalry than actual jealousy. She was totally fine about Sue being the one to visit Madarame for some reasons.

I don't think Keiko considers Sue a threat because she's still in denial of her feelings so she's willing to let her go. Although Keiko's real goal was preventing Angela from having a one night stand with Madarame. Sue is highly unlikely to do that based on the fact that's she's so shy and embarassed she can barely stand in the same room as him. I'm curious if Sue's been in the club room with Madarame recently?

Following on from that, I went back and re-read chapter 92 and had to do a double take on Angels's Quote "But Think about it. Madarame's hurt. Someone's got to help him enjoy all those doujinshi he bought, right?" I cracked up, realizing that since he broke his wrist, possibly his dominant hand, he wouldn't be able to enjoy his doujinshi without assistance LMAO. Although Angela would prefer it if he enjoyed something else.

I think I finally realized what Sue is to be now, a Swiss Army Knife!

Britt Reid: You know what you are. You're a human Swiss army knife.
Kato: I don't know what's that mean?
Britt Reid: It's a little things, and you keep pulling out things, and just when you think there couldn't be any more cool things, a new cool thing comes out, and that's you!

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

Angela's confession (I assume you mean the group confession in 91) was published in the August chapter, wasn't it? The first disc didn't come out until the beginning of September.

Yep, but you do not need to wait until the first day, week or month of sales to have a good estimate of sales, there are preorders, stalker points, general messageboard comments and probably other tools that tells the manufacturer how much discs they should print for each volume (remember that in Japan storage ¢ome$ at a premium) long before the anime has ended. Of course an exceptional last episode or a public relations fumble can modify the final numbers, but that is unusual.

[kazzuya13]

I think the reason why Keiko is not threaten when Sue will be the one to take care of Madarame. Is because Keiko doesn't want Angela to take care of him. Cause she think that it is possible for Madarame to hook up with Angela because she is quite aggressive. And I also think the doujinshi of MadaXAnge will came about if she will take care of Madarame.

[Jan-Poo]

I'm expecting doujinshi where Angela "helps" Madarame "enjoying" his recently bought doujinshi in spite of his left hand being broken.

It is only natural since Angela was so impressed by Madarame flipping the pages for her, except I'm pretty sure that Madarame is right handed so the flipping the page part isn't really what he needs help with.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Originally Posted by kniteowl

Really? When did you started reading Genshiken?

When Del Rey started publishing it in the States. Since Del Rey had a policy of guaranteed Japanese honorific usage, I was willing to sample a lot of their new manga when it came out. I liked Genshiken from the first volume. ^_^

When she did, I wondered if she subconsciously meant herself as an option to find new love but covered it up with BL.

That has been how I've looked at it.

Originally Posted by kazzuya13

And I also think the doujinshi of MadaXAnge will came about if she will take care of Madarame.

I'm told that there already is such a doujinshi out there. I've not seen it nor looked for it though.