General Gundam Mecha, Weapons, and Technology

[Kirouni]

Okay, so this raises a question to me.

What's the difference between CE beam shields and UC beam shields?

Well first, what's the difference between the beam shields like Strike Freedom/Infinite Justice/Destiny/Legend/DOMs and the Umbrella of Artemis?

We saw IJ ram Destiny with it's beam shield and similar circumstances, but the beam shields don't seem to cause damage. But the Umbrella of Artemis and the shielding on the Hyperion units would damage anything they touched though (ex. the meteor in whatever episode it was). Something like Hyperion's equipment seems to be more like UC beam shielding while the shields introduced in Destiny are a completely different tech altogether.

Thoughts?

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Kirouni

Okay, so this raises a question to me.

What's the difference between CE beam shields and UC beam shields?

Well first, what's the difference between the beam shields like Strike Freedom/Infinite Justice/Destiny/Legend/DOMs and the Umbrella of Artemis?

We saw IJ ram Destiny with it's beam shield and similar circumstances, but the beam shields don't seem to cause damage. But the Umbrella of Artemis and the shielding on the Hyperion units would damage anything they touched though (ex. the meteor in whatever episode it was). Something like Hyperion's equipment seems to be more like UC beam shielding while the shields introduced in Destiny are a completely different tech altogether.

Thoughts?

I don't know what the technical differences are, but I do know that the beam shields in CE and the Lightwave Barrier employed by Artemis and the Hyperion units are different in technology. The Lightwave Barrier can be used offensively, while it doesn't seem the same can be said of the beam shields.

[Nvis]

Originally Posted by Kirouni

Okay, so this raises a question to me.

What's the difference between CE beam shields and UC beam shields?

Well first, what's the difference between the beam shields like Strike Freedom/Infinite Justice/Destiny/Legend/DOMs and the Umbrella of Artemis?

We saw IJ ram Destiny with it's beam shield and similar circumstances, but the beam shields don't seem to cause damage. But the Umbrella of Artemis and the shielding on the Hyperion units would damage anything they touched though (ex. the meteor in whatever episode it was). Something like Hyperion's equipment seems to be more like UC beam shielding while the shields introduced in Destiny are a completely different tech altogether.

Thoughts?

Artemis and the Hyperion Gundam use light wave shields.

[Kirouni]

Oh yeah, that reminded me. Hyperion was even able to shoot from behind it's shield, which actually kind of makes it a third kind of shielding tech altogether. I just thought it might have been explained I only read like a volume and a half of X astray, so I was wondering if anybody else knew anything more.

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by Kirouni

Okay, so this raises a question to me.

What's the difference between CE beam shields and UC beam shields?

Well first, what's the difference between the beam shields like Strike Freedom/Infinite Justice/Destiny/Legend/DOMs and the Umbrella of Artemis?

We saw IJ ram Destiny with it's beam shield and similar circumstances, but the beam shields don't seem to cause damage. But the Umbrella of Artemis and the shielding on the Hyperion units would damage anything they touched though (ex. the meteor in whatever episode it was). Something like Hyperion's equipment seems to be more like UC beam shielding while the shields introduced in Destiny are a completely different tech altogether.

Thoughts?

CE and UC beam shields are fundamentally different and thus totally different forms of defense.

UC beam shields, as explained in our discussion in the previous page, is Minovsky Particles forming an I-Field to hold in plasma which is used to destroy anything in contact as a form of defence. The fundamentals of all UC beam technology is Minovsky Particles.

In CE however, there was never an explanation of particle physics, they just threw in a whole bunch of particles and present to you visually how it looks like.

Seeing that Neutron Jammer Cancellers are still on Earth, meaning Earth is not powered by nuclear reactors, I don't know how they manage to get enough energy to amass Positrons that they spam in Lohengrins and Positron Deflectors.

We don't know how Phase Shift works, how Light Wave Shields work. Voiture Lumiere as well.

In CE technology just happens and they operate as far as you can understand by watching the show.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Was it ever said how many rounds a Zaku machine gun can carry? Also, how big would the rounds be compared to a human?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by C.A.

CE and UC beam shields are fundamentally different and thus totally different forms of defense.

UC beam shields, as explained in our discussion in the previous page, is Minovsky Particles forming an I-Field to hold in plasma which is used to destroy anything in contact as a form of defence. The fundamentals of all UC beam technology is Minovsky Particles.

In CE however, there was never an explanation of particle physics, they just threw in a whole bunch of particles and present to you visually how it looks like.

Seeing that Neutron Jammer Cancellers are still on Earth, meaning Earth is not powered by nuclear reactors, I don't know how they manage to get enough energy to amass Positrons that they spam in Lohengrins and Positron Deflectors.

We don't know how Phase Shift works, how Light Wave Shields work. Voiture Lumiere as well.

In CE technology just happens and they operate as far as you can understand by watching the show.

Granted, to be perfectly fair, most of UC's technological explanations come AFTER the original Gundam show had aired. It has been decades since, and most of the technological explanation had been retconed and refined. So it is not strictly CE's fault that their technological explanations are not as detailed as UC.

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Was it ever said how many rounds a Zaku machine gun can carry? Also, how big would the rounds be compared to a human?

From MAHQ:

ZMP-50D/120mm machine gun, drum-fed, 100 rounds per drum, spare drums can be stored on waist armor racks

120mm rounds = large artillery rounds, in the real world, they're usually around 400 - 700 mm long.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Another question, is there much of a difference between the beam shields in CE and the Positron Reflector used on the Destroy Gundam?

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Another question, is there much of a difference between the beam shields in CE and the Positron Reflector used on the Destroy Gundam?

Besides the type of particles it uses and scale, they do the same thing, block all attacks.

Beam Shields are 'beams' which we have no idea what particles they are. They are emitted from a compact and localised beam shield generator, you use the area of defence as a shield. It probably uses less energy than Positron Deflectors since its smaller in scale.

Positron Deflectors are 'Positrons' the anti-particle of Electrons, extremely rare and hard to produce, definitely not cheap to spam with. But it seems that they can provide an extremely powerful and large scale defensive barrier that can easily repel even ship class Lohengrin cannons. It can deflect Lohengrin easily probably because Lohengrin beams are also Positron based and it will get repelled by the Positron Deflector because they have the same positive charge. You can say Zamzah-za, the first MA to have the Positron Deflector, was designed to counter ZAFT's Positron beams.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

So basically, PDs are the end all be all of beam shields?

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

So basically, PDs are the end all be all of beam shields?

While they are certainly the best in CE so far, they are not entirely impervious. The beam spike DRAGOONs of Legend Gundam, in particular, are effective against them.

[Yesman]

Originally Posted by kk2extreme

ok, lets not count turn A or turn X, ok, in Super Robots war alpha gaiden, double X satelite canon (map weapon) cover the entire map, while wing zero custom's TBR only cover that local area, i believe it is about six or seven squares. Also, double X's non map canon has more range and power than TBR.

In anime, double X's canon punch through the huge satelite straight through and still going, while wing zero cause an explosion on a part of the colony and the colony explode after that, In movie, zero custom needs to fire several shots to get through the armor plated base (but its damage at the time, so idk )

That's a game specs, hardly fact. Heck, in one game Quattro is a stronger newtype than both Amuro and Camille, and we know that isn't true.

Wing Zero was trying to punch through 20 layers of Neo-Titanium alloy, which is an alloy that is almost as physically durable as Gundanium. And probably because Relena is in that base.

[Yesman]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I'm not sure about Wing Zero Custom specifically, but there can be all sorts of reasons for mounting redundant sensor packages - having a backup set being most obvious. Aside from that, it could be for reasons like having a dedicated sensor package for the Twin Buster Rifle, housing different types of sensors than the head-mounted ones (and needing extra distance between the two), and so on.

Wing Zero's forearms mount complex sensor arrays, giving the twin buster rifle unprecedented accuracy, as said in Mecha talk.

[Yesman]

Originally Posted by C.A.

In CE however, there was never an explanation of particle physics, they just threw in a whole bunch of particles and present to you visually how it looks like.

Actually, CE beams are Laser-based.

[Yesman]

I guess time to put some Wing specs and technology to keep this thread alive...

Gundanium Alloy

A unique compound which can only be produced in the zero-gravity conditions of space. In addition to its incredible strength--several times the strength and heat-resistance of titanium, Gundanium alloy is electrically nonconductive and cannot be detected by radar. However, this material is expensive and difficult to manufacture, making it unfeasible for mass production.

Gundanium is created through the most advanced refining, fusing, and deoxidizing techniques, which are only possible in space. The complex formula was first called GND, short for Genetic on Universal Neutrally Different Alloy. Later the suffix "-nium" was added to distinguish that alloy from other similar alloys that were being developed on Earth. Gundanium was still superior to the competition because of its zero-G creative process.

While it’s called an "alloy," Gundanium contains many non-ferrous metals and non-analyzed matter, meaning it is not a true metal. It is created in high-temperature plasma that can only form in zero-gravity. The compound is adjusted in nano-units, a process so precise that it can only be done in gravitationally stable Lagrange Points. The annealing process, which strengthens the alloy, is performed by electromagnetic waves from the sun. It is even rumored that the nuclei of the atoms themselves are modified within the Gundanium alloy.

While many similar alloys were developed, no other compound is as immutable as Gundanium. The refinement process causes the alloy to become electrically neutral, making it ideal for use with Beam-type weapons, and as armor, the material is almost entirely resistant to charge. However, the extremely high cost of production makes it impractical for military use.

Some intelligence indicates that OZ scientists experimented with using Gundanium alloy in mobile suit creation. The very existence of Gundanium was kept secret, perhaps because it was a possible secret weapon for OZ. The five scientists who left the Tallgeese project took with them the knowledge of Gundanium, allowing them to create the Gundams that would later be the bane of OZ.

Zero System

The Zero System was developed to be an interactive interface between a human pilot and a Mobile Suit. The system computes the results of possible courses of action, and the pilot considers these and mentally feeds directions back to the system. What this means is that the pilot knows the result of his actions before he performs them.

The system is programmed to think tactically, so that the options that it feeds the pilot might include civilian death or unnecessary destruction. It is up to the pilot to guide the system and lend it a conscience, so the relationship becomes a balance of emotion and logic.

Another advantage of Zero System is its ability to offer physical stimulus back to the pilot, allowing him to feel the strain that the MS is undergoing. This causes great physical and emotional stress on the pilot, but allows the MS to become an extension of the pilot's thoughts and movements.

Due to the extreme mental strain on its users, Zero System could never be used on a wide scale. It can literally tear a users mind apart if they are not strong willed.

Only the cockpits of Gundams Wing Zero and Epyon were fitted with a built in version of the the Zero System, but a modified version of Epyon's Zero System was adapted by Zechs for use as the centralized system of Libra’s MD fleet, and Gundam Sandrock Custom was fitted with a form of Wing Zero's software during episode 44.

A number of references list ZERO as an acronym for "Zoning and Emotional Range Omitted (System)."

Beam Weapons

Beam weapons are the most advanced weapons used by Mobile Suits. While beam weapons can be built for ordinary MS, they are especially powerful when made from Gundanium. The complex alloy allows charged particles to reach heat temperatures which would incinerate ordinary metals. The Buster Rifle, which Wing Gundam carries, charges all particles in a 150 meter radius, creating a maelstrom of hot plasma. The gun's convergence ring concentrates the energy into a single devastating beam capable of destroying a battleship in a single blast.

The Beam Sabers (including the Scythe and Glaive) use the same principle as long range beam weapons, only instead of projecting beams of charged energy, they contain the beam in a continuous arc, even underwater. The ionization field surrounding the beam causes any matter it hits to become super-charged, effectively ripping it apart.

There is no armor capable of defending against beam weapons. The Gundanium alloy used in the Gundams' armor and the Planet Defensors of the Mercurius and Virgos is highly heat-resistant and virtually immune to corrosion, but it's still not immune to beam attacks. It does, however, create an "anti-field" that repels beam attacks to some degree, reducing the damage delivered, but not stopping it outright.

The best way to stop beam attacks is to avoid them entirely, and for that task, no other MS is as adept as Gundam Deathscythe Hell. Its Active Cloak can confuse visual sensors and the Hyper Jammers can block other readings, making it invisible to radar. The Cloak also helps disperse the charged particles of beam attacks.

When two beam weapons collide in melee combat, the charged particles repel each other, acting as if they were solid. The size, power and speed of the mobile suit becomes the deciding factor in such combat, just like with two humans dueling with swords.

source: GundamOfficial.com and Gundam Wing Technical Manual

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by Yesman

Actually, CE beams are Laser-based.

Actually, no, if you know what lasers are, the only weapons that qualifies as a laser in CE are the gamma ray lasers.

CE beams are actually particle beams and 'plasma beams', which are not lasers.

To be a laser, the beam must be made up of electromagnetic radiation of some sort.

And also please do not double post, edit your post if you want to add something.

[Yesman]

Originally Posted by C.A.

Actually, no, if you know what lasers are, the only weapons that qualifies as a laser in CE are the gamma ray lasers.

CE beams are actually particle beams and 'plasma beams', which are not lasers.

To be a laser, the beam must be made up of electromagnetic radiation of some sort.

And also please do not double post, edit your post if you want to add something.

Tell that to Gundam Official.

http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds...rikesword.html

Spoiler for Laser-based:

The Strike Gundam can be adapted to a variety of combat situations by attaching different Striker packs. The Sword Striker pack is designed for close-range combat, with its main weapon being an anti-ship blade which combines a physical sword with a powerful laser blade. This configuration is also equipped with a beam boomerang, and the small shield on its forearm contains a grappling device which can be launched at enemy machines.

EDIT: There was also a thread in Mecha talk and they were discussing "basic" technology in C.E., and how it works.

I didn't double post.

[Hellbore]

Originally Posted by Yesman

Tell that to Gundam Official.

http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds...rikesword.html

Spoiler for Laser-based:

The Strike Gundam can be adapted to a variety of combat situations by attaching different Striker packs. The Sword Striker pack is designed for close-range combat, with its main weapon being an anti-ship blade which combines a physical sword with a powerful laser blade. This configuration is also equipped with a beam boomerang, and the small shield on its forearm contains a grappling device which can be launched at enemy machines.

EDIT: There was also a thread in Mecha talk and they were discussing "basic" technology in C.E., and how it works.

I didn't double post.

That applies specifically to the large Anti-Ship Swords. It makes no mention of projectile beam weapons.

[Yesman]

Originally Posted by Hellbore

That applies specifically to the large Anti-Ship Swords. It makes no mention of projectile beam weapons.

http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds...ml#phononmaser

Spoiler for Still Laser-Based:

The standard energy weapon used by ZAFT's underwater mobile suits. A phonon maser is essentially the soundwave equivalent of a laser. Just as light is made up of electromagnetic oscillations whose peaks can be quantized into individual photons, soundwaves can be similarly quantized into so-called phonons. Like the photons emitted by a laser, the phonons emitted by the maser are all in phase and of the same frequency, creating a coherent beam which can deliver large amounts of energy to its target.

Anything else?

Beam sabers use the same principle as long range beam weapons, only instead of projecting beams of charged energy, they contain the beam in a continuous arc. So they're exactly the same.

Note: I'm going to Mecha talk again to find some more evidence.