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View Poll Results: When you think "critic", which definition first comes to mind? | |||
a person who is professionally engaged in the analysis and interpretation of works of art | 42 | 32.31% | |
anyone who expresses a reasoned judgment of something | 58 | 44.62% | |
someone who frequently finds fault or makes harsh and unfair judgments | 22 | 16.92% | |
other (please describe) | 8 | 6.15% | |
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll |
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2009-06-20, 23:50 | Link #21 |
Ha ha ha ha ha...
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Right behind you.
Age: 35
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I picked #2.
If you make at least an attempt to judge something with a sense of objectivity and fairness, yet enough of a discerning eye to not make everything seem either good or bad, i would say you are a fair critic.
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2009-06-21, 00:00 | Link #22 | |
デゲソ!! ( ・_・)ノ
Join Date: Oct 2008
Age: 34
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And yes, a poster who uses facts, sarcasm, and wit to debunk a critic to silence doesn't deserve to be labeled a villain... but I've yet to see such a feat occur. It's no easy task to change someone's opinions, as such we're all stuck in this little game in which we're all big fat losers.
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2009-06-21, 00:24 | Link #23 | |
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 34
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I've always thought that the word "critic" merely denotes "someone who criticizes," where criticism doesn't mean just negative criticism but any discussion of something through critical methods of thinking.
Words being what they are, that's not always the case. It can be a shorthand for "professional critics;" an implication of "negative criticism;" or even an attack on someone as "not author," among other things. For example, in an introduction to his only novel, Ralph Ellison wrote something along the lines of "What can a novelist say about his novel that a critic cannot?" Here he implies a role of the critic separate from both the author and the general audience. Of course, he himself was a critic at some point (he wrote book reviews, literary articles, etc.), but he clearly did not consider himself a critic when it comes to his own work. This is, I think an interesting distinction, one which led me to conclude that I am not a critic, at least of most anime. I watch anime for the purpose of entertainment, not to deliver critical judgment. This in no way implies that a critic is inferior in the hierarchy between the two, nor does it imply an inherent quality (positive or negative) to his or her criticisms. It simply is a different role. They are not even mutually exclusive. A blogger blogging about an anime episode is generally acting on both levels -- as an audience and a critic. It does leads to another interesting question though: even though I made a vague distinction above, I'll admit that I do not know where the audience ends and the critic begins, I just know -- or perhaps feel -- that they are different on at least some levels. Quote:
Of course, their complaints do not protect them. Their own inanities are also fair game, but holding these faults as an excuse to deny their criticisms (haha) of annoying posters like that is unreasonable. |
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2009-06-21, 00:27 | Link #24 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Anyhow... There is something I must mention in this thread... It seems to me that many people see that if someone likes a show, it is simply because of their own value system. Well, that's fine, but what determines the greatness of a work of art then? What does it mean when someone calls a movie "A great American Classic?" EDIT: I also would like to say that almost everything is an opinion. I could say that ingesting chemicles and not natural food is a good thing, but that could very well be what most consider to be poor judgement.
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2009-06-21, 00:36 | Link #25 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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And yes, most everything is opinion. But recognizing the weight of that realization is the tough part. If most everything is opinion as a result of value judgements, and each person has their own opinions and values, then you have no reason to necessarily believe that your perspective is better than any one else's, no matter how good you perceive your reasoning to be. We live in a world of greys; very few things are actually "black" or "white". What matters about opinion is, ultimately, the consequence. |
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2009-06-21, 00:42 | Link #26 | |
デゲソ!! ( ・_・)ノ
Join Date: Oct 2008
Age: 34
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So I'm not denying their right to point flaws in flaws... I'm denying their right for such a snarky attitude. Bringing over what I said from the thread where this came from, it's all in the majority. If the majority of the people who watch/read something believe it is "great" that it will undoubetly be labeled "great", and the remainder of the people will be stuck calling it "overrated". Greatness exists in something only if you believe it does.
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2009-06-21, 00:47 | Link #27 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Truth, I didn't articulate what I meant clearly enough. That drags in the apparently very human behavior we see in any sort of zealotry -- to assert one's opinion on a subjective topic as a "fact" all must see as The Truth.
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2009-06-21, 00:48 | Link #28 | ||||||
On a mission
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2009-06-21 at 02:40. |
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2009-06-21, 00:54 | Link #29 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
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The kind of people I'm talking about are the ones who stay with a series just because of the gold mine of things they don't like about it to nitpick over. The ones who really have no proper criticism at all, just hate comments and shallow "squee!" comments. |
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2009-06-21, 00:58 | Link #30 | |
デゲソ!! ( ・_・)ノ
Join Date: Oct 2008
Age: 34
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2009-06-21, 01:29 | Link #31 | ||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Your logic implies that Batman beats it in terms of greatness, but the elitists of the movie industry considered it not worthy of being considered the best movie of the year (Once again, I'm not saying that I agree with their opinion). Now, I think I'm about to abuse Godwin's law, but I must... Lets take a Democracy for comparison. The majority opinion rules. Is it always the best choice? Not necessarily. Can it not be the same for entertainment? When I'm with a group of 10 friends, and 6 of them think it's fun to get drunk, while me and the other 3 do not, should I consider their opinion to be the better one? I'm saying this because I do not think that popularity dictates whether or not something becomes great overtime. My defintion of great means that it is something that is to be remembered and passed down generations for its overall quality as a product of entertainment. Alfred Hitchcock is considered a great director, but a lot of people have never seen his movies and even those who do see them have mixed feelings about them. However, among the elite, these movies are usually considered brilliant. And these elitists of movies keep passing these movies down to younger generations and telling them that these movies are great. In the end, does it really make their opinion any better because these people managed to pass down these movies as known "greats" even if it really isn't all that popular? Maybe. Maybe not. That's for others to decide. To be honest, this post has become so convoluted that I will probably have to clean it up considerably later.
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2009-06-21, 01:35 | Link #32 | ||
AniMexican!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Monterrey N.L. Mexico
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As for the question... I do not see myself as an anime critic. I take a very casual approach to the shows I watch and only comment on them from time to time. I take an extra interest in comments that are different from mine (either positive or negative) and it pains me when the majority (in any thread) tries to push the other side out of the equation.
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2009-06-21, 01:36 | Link #33 |
Akamatsu Fan
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There is a fine line between critics and trolls/baiting, especially when alot of people only go after the first two episodes review.
As for me, it's difficult to say on my part because I haven't seen an anime I didin't watch fully and not enjoy. Someone mentions K-on! above, the only downfall of that anime I saw is that finally after 12 episodes there was actually a concert of light music. >< |
2009-06-21, 03:31 | Link #34 |
At the end of this world
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hungary, Europe
Age: 39
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Well I guess I could think of myself as a critic as some of the definitions matches me too. I voted #3 though, as it's my obsession to "someone who frequently finds fault" inconsistencies, illogicalities and other possible smaller mistakes whatever I watch and/or play.
Albeit I never speak harshly about it, and I always try not to judge anything unfairly, so I guess the second part is not matching me. I actually more like thefreedictionary's third description about that word: "One who tends to make harsh or carping judgments; a faultfinder", because faultfinder completely describes me, and at the same time it's not considered as someone generally negative IMO. As for the answers:
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Last edited by izmosmolnar; 2009-06-21 at 03:41. |
2009-06-21, 03:43 | Link #35 |
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 46
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I find criticism a nice and well meaning activity, but some people simply do not really know how to do it. Or, at least do not acknowledge others' responses to said criticism.
Case in point: some people wear different hats in different threads. I've seen examples (and I shouldn't give names) of people actively faulting the "if you don't like the show don't watch it" shtick in a thread and actually stating the very same thing in another. Isn't that a very flaming double-standard? Nonetheless, I find it hard to comment about shows that irk me or that have disappointed me much. Supposedly, I don't have the stamina for it. Therefore, I would class myself as #2.
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2009-06-21, 04:14 | Link #36 |
Lone Wolf
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1. When you think of the word "critic" in this context, which of the definitions above tends to spring to mind?
I think of the first one, but the other 2 are reasonable definitions as well. 2. Based on that, do you consider yourself an "Anime Critic"? Nope. I don't work professionally as a critic. I do write reviews and watched a whole lotsa animes, so some people see me as a critic or at least a reviewer. 3. When considering which shows to watch, what factors into your decision? Do you tend to watch shows you think you'll like, or will you watch anything that seems popular or technically interesting? I just watch anything regardless of quality, genre, etc. I may avoid some genres like yaoi/shonen-ai. 4. When considering which shows to discuss on the forum, what factors into your decision? Do you tend to discuss shows you like, or do you tend to discuss any show where you feel you have an interesting/differing argument/perspective? Only when I feel like I have something to add in any discussion in any anime thread (I guess this is true to everyone even the trolls). 5. How do you decide when to drop shows? What factors into the decision? Does forum popularity/participation factor into your decision-making? I try to not drop any show. Usually I drop shows that I just can't find more episodes. I'm a little lazy, so I won't put much effort in procure the missing episodes. 6. Which of these two problems seems more troublesome to you: that people feel unable to present contrary/opposing opinions and arguments, or that people feel unwelcome/uncomfortable posting in threads due to fear of having their personal preferences unfairly questioned? Both are troublesome to me in different ways I guess.
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Last edited by ddwkc; 2009-06-21 at 06:23. |
2009-06-21, 04:52 | Link #37 | ||||||
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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I do think that only TWO bloggers managed to make me label them with the Anime Critic tag (one of them being the author of the blog "Cruel Angel Thesis") Quote:
#2. If the premise is interesting enough to grab me. Combine it with #1 and you get "Pissed off kid who get his parents killed climb in his humongous mech to exact revenge." vs "Pissed off guy got his family slaughtered by the Confederates so he joins the Union army". Same story of revenge, however, you'll have more chance to grab me with the second premise than the first. #3. The setting. I always go for fantasy first, then time period, then sci-fi (preferably Cyberpunk), then school life. However, I am very demanding so I end up picking up a few. #4. The characters. It's no use picking up a show if I don't give a damn about the characters. Quote:
Now for the interesting and differing argument/perspective, I prefer to think twice to make sure it matters. However, being a more casual viewer, this does not come often. Quote:
Forums popularity and participation have NOTHING to do with it. Quote:
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2009-06-21, 05:50 | Link #38 |
Banned
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Picked number 2 for "critic" as it was defined in my critical thinking course in University, but added a little bit of 1 as well. To me being able to think critically is to make a reasoned and logical judgement and/or argument on a potential course of action, thought, concept, work of art etc. There are however many alternate approaches to the critical method and some may find one more preferable to others or also hold a different set of standards as to what is relevant/irrelevant when critically reviewing or analyzing something.
It's all very complex and it's been interesting to read this thread so far and see what different people have to offer on the whole issue. Kind of makes me miss the course. |
2009-06-21, 05:58 | Link #39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Detroit, MI
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Ah, the dreaded "I'm entitled to my opinion" vs. "If you don't like it don't watch it" debate
I think as long as it's reasonable people should feel free to say whatever they like. It would be nice if people would notice when they themselves start treading into the extremes of the spectrum. That would probably nip most of this problem in the bud. Too bad it generally takes someone else to point it out for them, which tends to cause the conditions necessary for a flamewar. I think one thing that ticks a lot of people off is repeating the same kinds of things over and over every time a new episode comes out in a series. Doing stuff like that just begs the opposite extreme to get involved in a less than constructive manner. It's generally more apparent when it's repeated bashing of a show rather than praising it, but both can be pretty disruptive to a thread. |
2009-06-21, 09:46 | Link #40 | ||
Not an expert on things
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I don't see how they are the final judgment on what is "great" or not. Unless they can provide information on how they came to that decision, their decision is just as valid as the rest of ours. Even if they do provide information, it's still debatable. Quote:
You're right. Majority opinion is not always the best choice. That being said, the opposite can apply as well. Due to the nature of a lot of these shows, they are rated not based on how exemplary they are, but how well they achieve their aim. Actually, I have to agree with you that popularity doesn't equal greatness, because a lot of times that isn't why it's popular. That also goes into how people criticize. I doubt a majority of critics criticize based on how great something will be down the road, but rather how well they achieved their aims [possibly compared to others in the genre/medium]. |
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critic, anime, meta, discussion |
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