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View Poll Results: When you think "critic", which definition first comes to mind? | |||
a person who is professionally engaged in the analysis and interpretation of works of art | 42 | 32.31% | |
anyone who expresses a reasoned judgment of something | 58 | 44.62% | |
someone who frequently finds fault or makes harsh and unfair judgments | 22 | 16.92% | |
other (please describe) | 8 | 6.15% | |
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll |
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2009-06-21, 23:32 | Link #61 | ||||
AniMexican!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Monterrey N.L. Mexico
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If you disagree with someone, just say it and be done with it. Quote:
Works the other way around too, you know? When the fans change their own approach to this, perhaps things could also change/improve a little. In the end, we all have our ways to enjoy our animes. Quote:
As for the rest, I either don't care or simply report it to the mods. Quote:
Freedom of speech also happens to include the things we don't like to hear. Again, this can also work both ways.
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2009-06-22, 00:10 | Link #62 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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And whatever your ideals may be about discussion forums being inherently neutral, it should be pretty obvious to you that this isn't the case. The people who spend the time watching a show from week to week are naturally going to trend over time to being those who enjoy it most. Awareness of your surroundings is part of adapting to a culture. I'm not trying to trample on your right to have contrary points of view. But I do hope you'll at least consider that effective communication begins with the sender -- the one who wants their message to be received. I guess it comes down to the difference between being "heard", being "understood", and being "accepted". The only one who can decide your goal is you, and your communication strategy should reflect your goal. But despite your best efforts, sometimes it just doesn't work. At those times, it's just a matter of knowing when to give up. |
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2009-06-22, 00:12 | Link #63 |
Osana-Najimi Shipper
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mt. Ordeals
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For me, a critic that comes to mind would be #1, someone who professionally analyzes anime as works of art. But thing is, anime isn't really considered as an art by the mainstream (even Japan still thinks its just for kids), let alone is there a need for it to be professionally 'analyzed' and/or academically 'studied'.
As such, I really don't consider anyone as an 'anime critic', in the same vein there are literary, art and movie critics. I wouldn't stop anyone from 'criticizing' a show however, but it goes without saying that I take the word of whoever claims to be a bonafide 'anime critic' with a big bucketful of salt. As for how I watch anime, well, I'm different from most people. Apart from any show with a boy/girl childhood friend cast being an auto-watch (a 'duh' considering my title), I actually give each and every fansubbed anime a 3 episode grace period barring special expections (Yaoi/Yuri for example only get 1, and that's really more for confirmation that they are indeed Yaoi/Yuri than anything else). This is mainly because my favourite show of all time, Twelve Kingdoms, didn't really get going after about 7 or 8 episodes in (during which time you're stuck with an arrogant, bitchy, whiny, and absolutely annoying protagonist). Which is around 15% of its total run, which in turn means about 2 episodes for a one cour show or 4 episodes for a two cour series. Thus I just take the average of the two for convenience sake, since vast majority of the time, companies don't announce the total number of episodes till well into cour already. As for what factors into dropping the show, well, being a shipper, romance is THE biggest part of it. If it doesn't have it, or its in miniscule amounts with a number of episodes between each, then unless it particularly excels in some other way (One Outs being the most recent one), then it's a drop. Of course I also drop shows with a noticeable amount of romance, but I just do these by a case by case basis. Sometimes its just done so badly that even my shipper side is turned off lol. Then there's also some shows that I stick by no matter how bad it is. These are mainly done when I have loads of free time, where I choose 1 show a cour that I'll follow through till the very end despite how bad it may be. Oddly enough though, 41 out of the 56 series that have had enough exposure to earn their own sub-forum, I actually either have seen the entirety or at least one season of it. If you chalk that up as me being more 'tolerant' of dropping popular shows, or me just liking what are 'good' shows, it really doesn't matter to me. And yes, I only discuss shows that I actually like. Anime is a hobby for me, and I particularly don't like wasting my time watching an entire series I don't like, much less actually going about debating the flaws of such series to the public. As for the last question, don't those two go hand in hand? People are unable to present contrary opinions BECAUSE they are in fear of being called a troll. Which leads to the current discussion. And it is quite interesting to bring up the double standards regarding the two statements of 'this show is awesome!' and 'this show sucks!' Not that I'm condoning that people should get away with the 'this show sucks!' line, mind you. On the contrary, both are a waste of my time as neither adds to the discussion, and as such if one line is disallowed or frowned upon, the other should be too. Personally, I loved the 'no one-liners' rule in another forum I frequent. Prevents BOTH 'this show is awesome!' and 'this show sucks!' kind of posts, which leads to less clutter, less flame wars, and less time finding posts that actually are worth reading. One last final thing... you know what irks me the most about 'criticism'? It would be how people think that the source material are the be-all-and-end-all gospel, and that any major deviation from it instantly means the adaptation is automatically 'bad', even when this deviation doesn't detract from show. Heck, in some cases, it actually enhances the show by removing excess material, but I digress.... |
2009-06-22, 00:50 | Link #64 | ||||||
AniMexican!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Monterrey N.L. Mexico
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And you getting an emotional response over this....... that too is your choice. Quote:
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second bolded bit: As I have been saying all along, this too works both ways. Some of the most harsh comments I have heard around here have come from the fans themselves, and some of these fans have been doing it for years now. Knowing what not to say and/or how to say it, is truly something many need considering. Quote:
If someone disturbs a section and breaks the rules, by all means deal with them as you see fit. For once, we agree!
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2009-06-22, 01:26 | Link #65 |
Protecting the Throne
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Asia Tour
Age: 32
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I very know that I myself am an Anime critic. Given that I'm the type of person that does complain more than usual. I picked number 1 but I agree with the rest of the options.
As for the other topic in this thread I think we should be sensitive about what we say. We may come off as rude and impolite or even offensive to others. Sometimes I have certain ways of telling them that they're making too much of a deal over a topic and that they seem as if they wanna karate chop me
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2009-06-22, 02:08 | Link #66 | ||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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In short, while I consider myself a critic of visual media (specifically film), but I am still learning (even after many, many years) the context of the various anime series and movies. So, I would not say that I am an Anime critic. Quote:
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Last edited by james0246; 2009-06-22 at 04:01. |
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2009-06-22, 02:26 | Link #67 |
cho~ kakkoii
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
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A critic is anyone who has ever said, *hmpf* or let out a big, satisfying, *sigh* after the end of a viewing.
Any sort of gesture whether it is well laid out words, or just simple tinkering of natural muscle movement we ourselves are not even aware of which corresponds with a particular emotion we are feeling at the time, we are criticing. In a sense, every person is a critic. So I've went with the choice "Other" in the poll.
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2009-06-22, 07:19 | Link #68 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Using definition #2, I'd say I'm a critic of anime to some extent. I tend to drop shows that I'm not enjoying, but I try to keep that minimal with series that I'm downloading. Most of my dropped series are things that I started buying a long time ago before I gave myself more strict rules on where my money goes that I didn't end up liking enough to justify buying more of.
When I watch things, I try to analyze them. I like knowing why I enjoyed or didn't enjoy something, and just thinking about that for a bit after I finish a series or even an episode usually gives me an answer. I don't like the idea of mindlessly fangirling something without being able to have some sort of intelligent discussion of it, and I really can't stand the idea of saying I hated something or that it sucked without an idea of why. |
2009-06-22, 08:43 | Link #69 | ||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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I'm not sure if that's a fair perception. Like you've said, how well you enjoy an anime show depends partly on what experience and knowledge you bring to the programme. And a professional critic usually draws upon a broad range of skills that, by definition, a layman would not possess, for example: Quote:
Which brings me to an off-tangent question: To what extent is anime an art form? My personal opinion is that most anime is meant to be popular entertainment — we're meant to consume and forget about them. That's not to say that they have no technical merit to speak of, but rather that most anime is geared towards very straightforward — and often commercial — goals. In this sense, it's almost laughable to critique the vast majority of anime, much as it would be almost laughable to conduct a serious critique of primetime shows like, say, Desperate Housewives. We'd be guilty, to a certain extent, of making anime seem more important than it really is — I find that the medium is simply not meant, for the most part, to be taken that seriously. Now, there are anime out there that do push the envelope, which leverage on the unique strengths of animation to tell a story in exciting new ways. But what kinds of yardsticks should we then use to evaluate such shows? A movie critic could talk about the structures and contexts of film-making, as james0246 had highlighted above, but to what extent do these factors apply to animation? (For example, cinematography is one of the most coveted skillsets in making a live-action film, because it takes considerable talent and knowledge to master the use of light on a set — but that's a non-issue in animation.) So, what do we really mean when we say we're "anime critics"? Is it merely enough to have an opinion? In which case, everyone's a critic. Once again, I'd say you're a critic only when you're capable of giving something more than just opinion. You need to be able to show and explain how a show employs multiple layers of meaning and technique to deliver a message (assuming that the anime possesses such complexity in the first place!). That's very far from being a simple task. Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2009-06-22 at 09:02. |
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2009-06-22, 10:43 | Link #70 | ||
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Beneath the Flag of Freedom!
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But that's a little bit neither here nor there, sorry to digress. Quote:
I suppose I'm inclined to want to view everything as "art" to a certain extent, because as a writer, I have a hard time imagining a person who writes without putting any of themselves into it, trying to hit upon something unique or at least interesting. I have to admit, there are a lot of things out there that make me question my faith in that idea, though, and I can't nearly blame all of them on some sort of executive meddling with the original ARTISTIC PURPOSE of the show. But by the same token, I don't think "pure entertainment," is at all a bad thing, as long as that's what a series/show/book sets out to be, and doesn't pretend to be anything else. Take an American show like Psych--it's not as emotionally involved as a Law and Order or whatever, but it's generally funny, and it recalls that era of mystery stories that are as much about the adventure as figuring out who did it. And for the most part it knows that it's just trying to be a funny, entertaining show and doesn't pretend to be anything else. To a certain extent, I think that that's better than something that pretends to be deep or meaningful without much actually there... like, for instance, a lot of anime "philosophical clashes," between a person with fairly ordinary values and some villain who's spent his whole life reading Nietzsche or somesuch. So I guess what I mean is that I look to any show to know what it is trying to be, and to be that to the fullest extent it possibly can. But that doesn't really answer the question. I think I see anime as being entertainment, yes, but also being capable of being more than that when it wants to be. And as I've said, I have no problem with either, as long as they're well executed. I mean, hell, if I can read symbolism into Gurren Lagann, I can probably satisfy myself on either count with most well-made shows (though to be fair, Gurren Lagann does actually express its ideas pretty well, which may be why it won script awards in Japan, if memory serves). Ack, I feel like I more just ranted about my own views than addressed your question... sorry about that... eheh... *sweatdrop* |
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2009-06-22, 14:07 | Link #71 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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All of the structual components I listed can be found in Anime, but, just like with television (and even film, in recent years), the structual components within a general anime, especially one meant for mass-appeal, will be simplistic at best, preffering instead for the story, acting, and music to outweight any simplicity on the part of the structual presentation. |
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2009-06-22, 16:30 | Link #72 |
eyewitness
Join Date: Jan 2007
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On a marginally related note, the argument between Daniel E. and rentlessflame looks like the classical cultural clash to me between those who've learned "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" from their mothers and those who have learned "Tell the truth!". Or am I interpreting too much into this? In any case, in a global forum one must learn to deal with both and calling Daniel "aggressive" in uncalled for.
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2009-06-22, 16:52 | Link #73 | |
On a mission
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When I rewatch a show and realize tiny subtle things I didn't notice before, that makes me appreciate the show more. After all, if you do not love and respect your own works, how can you expect others to? Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2009-06-22 at 17:05. |
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2009-06-22, 17:00 | Link #74 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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And again, that felt fairly over-the-top to reframe his post as "I'll say what I damn well please and it's not insulting" o.O The "Thumper says" comment ... in reality there are shades of grey between "nice" and "not nice". If Daniel is our benchpost for "aggressive and overly-defensive", then we're all totally screwed because my experience has been that he's one of the calmer posters at Animesuki :P
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2009-06-22, 17:05 | Link #75 | |||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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And in the spirit of "tell you what I'm feeling", of course I now feel like shit because I totally failed in conveying what I was hoping. That's not anyone's fault except my own, because I was responsible for the way I stated things. So I guess the lesson learned is that perception of tone goes in all different directions, and that it's very hard to know how it will be received. Or something... Edit: Now I'm really wondering whether calling someone "aggressive" has cultural connotations that I wasn't aware of. Around here, I don't think it would be taken as an insult; in fact, in many contexts, it would be taken as a complement. It just means that you're direct, determined -- sort of like a "go-getter". You don't beat around the bush; that would be "aggressive". The opposite of "aggressive" would be "passive", which is sort of "laissez-faire", and I can't see many people seeing that as a complement. You might tell a child that they need to be more aggressive and chase after their goals, or something. But in that context it doesn't mean like "violent" or "prone to start fights" or whatever; that would be someone who's overly-aggressive. So I guess I'm used to thinking that being somewhat aggressive is a good thing, but clearly that's a case of cultural word usage. So honestly, please at least take my word for it that I didn't intend that as an insult. Last edited by relentlessflame; 2009-06-22 at 18:32. Reason: on being "aggressive" |
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2009-06-23, 04:17 | Link #76 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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2009-06-23, 08:45 | Link #77 | |||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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In general, I see this as a potential problem as the point of discussing something is defeated if only one kind of idea is deemed acceptable. Anyone offering an opinion should expect that someone else is going to posit either a rebuttal or an opposing opinion. I sort of see that as the lifeblood of discussion, and I'd hate to see it get stifled. Quote:
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2009-06-23, 08:57 | Link #78 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I think this is one of those cases where *saying* "that sounded aggressive" with a mitigating tonality is just less accusatory or damning than *writing* it. Tonality differs in written correspondence than in spoken conversation.
However, "aggressive" does have a specific meaning (especially in academics) that places it far forward of a word like "assertive". It has a somewhat negative connotation in many circles because its often used as a euphemism for much more negative assessment. For instance, in business I've heard it used to describe "uppity females" when the speaker knows that saying "bitch" would get them tossed into retraining counseling.
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2009-06-23, 10:08 | Link #79 | ||||||
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
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Popularity and hype doesn't automatically mean it's food for the brainless masses. As much as possible I try to watch something as objectively as possible before I pile on my hate or my fanboyisms. It's because I want to give most series a chance because most really won't shine until some episodes in, and the moment I let excess emotions and subjectivity get in the way I may end up dropping something fantastic (like Saikano). Quote:
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Of course above all things, the ones I really hate are opinions based on faulty information or blatant ignorance. There are fewer things more dangerous than a misinformed or ignorant opinion.
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2009-06-23, 10:15 | Link #80 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Actually, this is a very interesting way of looking at it. I've seen forumites who post their thoughts/impressions ritualistically after every episode airs, to the extent that I sometimes wonder if they watch it in order to post. And of course there are also "episode bloggers" who post screenshots, summaries and impressions after each viewing. These people may or may not be "critics", but I guess the question is, when you get into these sorts of "rituals", to what extent does that impact the way you view a show? And if so, does having these sorts of "rituals", perhaps unknowingly at first, make it harder over time to simply enjoy a show? Hmm... I guess that's sort of a "how have the forums changed the way you watched anime" sort of question. Anyway, interesting thought. |
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critic, anime, meta, discussion |
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