Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by HaizuUsa

I found the pacing kind of poor in this episode actually,as well as some of the animation just terrible (When Rosa is talking to the children after the Servants have left look at George's face,and at one point during the meta-world Beato's face looks all askew!)

I agree with this completely, I found the animation to be... really poor for most of the episode quite honestly. I know it's nothing new, but the lack of consistency in size and position of many of the characters really bothers me. Sometimes their faces are drawn awkwardly (Beatrice... Maria... Gohda... Nanjo... Kumasawa), sometimes their hair is drawn oddly (Rosa), most of the time their heights and sizes are all wrong (Battler, Gohda, Kumasawa... everybody else @_@; ), sometimes the amount of space in a room is exaggerated (Shannon's ninja jump/landing), sometimes their clothes aren't consistent (Shannon's skirt), and the animation itself can be really really poor and sketchy overall.

It usually sticks out to me, but in this episode it stuck out even more for some reason.

[HaizuUsa]

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

I agree with this completely, I found the animation to be... really poor for most of the episode quite honestly. I know it's nothing new, but the lack of consistency in size and position of many of the characters really bothers me. Sometimes their faces are drawn awkwardly (Beatrice... Maria... Gohda... Nanjo... Kumasawa), sometimes their hair is drawn oddly (Rosa), most of the time their heights and sizes are all wrong (Battler, Gohda, Kumasawa... everybody else @_@; ), sometimes the amount of space in a room is exaggerated (Shannon's ninja jump/landing), sometimes their clothes aren't consistent (Shannon's skirt), and the animation itself can be really really poor and sketchy overall.

It usually sticks out to me, but in this episode it stuck out even more for some reason.

Mmm.I usually let it slide but not this time.
I also forgot to mention the size of Maria's moe fang..that was not moe.
That was awful :|

[maximilianjenus]

Well, it was fun seeing that anybody that could care for jessica's death is already dead or got someone more important to them killed.

I like what they are doing with the red text, subtitle style would become really boring after the first time, and we already have sound - regular subtitles so we don't need to read it anyway.

About the misuse of the bgms, it can't be helped, I remember how I ahted their use of the original bgm in the first twilight of the first arc, since the scene was much shorter in the anime it felt worse than not having the bgm; but at least we left behind the "finish the chapter witha twilight" era.

[Kazane]

Wow, already two deaths with no relevance to the epitaph! Previously it was just Natsuhi but that was probably because Beatrice had already carried out all of the twilights. Shouldn't she be worried that some of the remaining people may just commit suicide or something? I'm sure she wouldn't be happy if there were insufficient humans to sacrifice.

Also, I just realized that I really miss Natsuhi. I mean, Rosa seems like she wouldn't be able to rise to Natsuhi's level at all with her instability. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though.

8/10

PS: For some reason I'm expecting Genji to be the next to whip out some magic.

[Kazuki_Kun]

I also have to comment on the animation. It's really sub-standard. I think the only scene they even TRIED to animate well was with Dark Kanon, even then, the aniamtion only managed to pick up near the end of the scene. Shannon's jump also looked very strange as mentioned, maybe Battler should try explaining what trick Shannon used to do such a super jump ;P

Some of the proportions make it really hard to watch at times for me. Seriously, how low is the budget? you'd think with the popularity (well, Umineko seems popular from what i can see) they would give it a bigger budget. I just find the animation to be so.. bland. Only a slight step up from Higurashi season 1. Who knows, maybe they're saving the budget for some of the epic scenes that occur later. Higu Kai's wasn't really noticible because it had nice character designs.. but Umineko, just ergh. Seriously, DEEN, If you can't do the animation justice, hand it over to a more capable animation studio =/ Some of the worst animation I've seen this season!


Apart from that though, the episode itself was pretty good.

/Rant over

[sento]

Now I'm really wondering if I only see garbage anime, because I have seen animes with FAR worse animation than this, really.

[Coruja]

Originally Posted by Kazuki_Kun

I also have to comment on the animation. It's really sub-standard. I think the only scene they even TRIED to animate well was with Dark Kanon, even then, the aniamtion only managed to pick up near the end of the scene. Shannon's jump also looked very strange as mentioned, maybe Battler should try explaining what trick Shannon used to do such a super jump ;P

Some of the proportions make it really hard to watch at times for me. Seriously, how low is the budget? you'd think with the popularity (well, Umineko seems popular from what i can see) they would give it a bigger budget. I just find the animation to be so.. bland. Only a slight step up from Higurashi season 1. Who knows, maybe they're saving the budget for some of the epic scenes that occur later. Higu Kai's wasn't really noticible because it had nice character designs.. but Umineko, just ergh. Seriously, DEEN, If you can't do the animation justice, hand it over to a more capable animation studio =/ Some of the worst animation I've seen this season!


Apart from that though, the episode itself was pretty good.

/Rant over

Well, I would bet that a big part of the budget goes to the voice actors... There's a lot of them already (and it will get a lot worse!) and some of them are pretty big names...
I agree that the animation is poor, I've seen Studion Deen do a lot better, even Higurashi (except for the first season) had better animation, and you'd think they'd step it up this time, considering that Umineko was already well known way before they began the anime adaptation.

[MarthX]

I think everyone has forgot how bad Higurashi S1 was. Umineko doesn't come close to being that bad.

[BakaOnna]

Originally Posted by SaraFilipa

Well, I would bet that a big part of the budget goes to the voice actors... There's a lot of them already (and it will get a lot worse!) and some of them are pretty big names...
I agree that the animation is poor, I've seen Studion Deen do a lot better, even Higurashi (except for the first season) had better animation, and you'd think they'd step it up this time, considering that Umineko was already well known way before they began the anime adaptation.

That, and probably the music as well. Doesn't DEEN have to pay the original artists for the use of their BGMs? Even if it is remixed.

Either way, I heard that Umineko's budget is bigger than Higurashi's (well, at least season 1), but I do think a lot of it went into the voice acting. I mean, the first 2 arcs alone has more characters and voice actors than Higurashi did.

[Noe]

Episode 9 was intense.

[NeoWorm]

Originally Posted by MarthX

I think everyone has forgot how bad Higurashi S1 was. Umineko doesn't come close to being that bad.

Lies, its much worse.

Originally Posted by Kazuki_Kun

I also have to comment on the animation. It's really sub-standard. I think the only scene they even TRIED to animate well was with Dark Kanon, even then, the aniamtion only managed to pick up near the end of the scene. Shannon's jump also looked very strange as mentioned, maybe Battler should try explaining what trick Shannon used to do such a super jump ;P

Some of the proportions make it really hard to watch at times for me. Seriously, how low is the budget? you'd think with the popularity (well, Umineko seems popular from what i can see) they would give it a bigger budget. I just find the animation to be so.. bland. Only a slight step up from Higurashi season 1. Who knows, maybe they're saving the budget for some of the epic scenes that occur later. Higu Kai's wasn't really noticible because it had nice character designs.. but Umineko, just ergh. Seriously, DEEN, If you can't do the animation justice, hand it over to a more capable animation studio =/ Some of the worst animation I've seen this season!


Apart from that though, the episode itself was pretty good.

/Rant over

So I am not the only one who thinks they just fail at animation despite being profesional animation studio. It almost seems that they just mock us.

Also their I think their business strategy is kinda weird - they are rushing to put all four arcs to 26 episodes and then wait 3 years before Ryuukishi wrties the rest? I think splitting it into two series would be a much better idea.

[Proto]

*sigh* i never forgot it, because for me Higurashi S1 was good in its own way, S2 was good in its own way, the game was good in its own way. Similarly Umineko's game is good in its own way, and the anime is good in its own way. You guys got to learn to enjoy life more you know. This new generation is too negative for its own good

[sento]

Originally Posted by NeoWorm

Lies, its much worse.

Obviously, you didn't play the Higurashi SNs.

They cut like.... half of the story? Oh, and they almost killed all feeling too, oh and the music was nonexistant, oh and all the motifs were destroyed, oh and they crammed SIX arcs in a season, oh and the animation was... fucking horrible.

Umineko is by far better, really.

Originally Posted by NeoWorm

So I am not the only one who thinks they just fail at animation despite being profesional animation studio. It almost seems that they just mock us.

Also their I think their business strategy is kinda weird - they are rushing to put all four arcs to 26 episodes and then wait 3 years before Ryuukishi wrties the rest? I think splitting it into two series would be a much better idea.

If you really expect awesome animation from DEEN then your deluding yourself.

From DEEN you can expect... this. If it is OVA series, then something better.

There are far worse studios around really, and even top studios like Bones pull of QUALITY from time to time.

[NeoWorm]

Originally Posted by Proto

*sigh* i never forgot it, because for me Higurashi S1 was good in its own way, S2 was good in its own way, the game was good in its own way. Similarly Umineko's game is good in its own way, and the anime is good in its own way. You guys got to learn to enjoy life more you know. This new generation is too negative for its own good

I just cant enjoy something that is that bad. I found Deens approach diguisting because they clearly want only money - as fast as possible and without any effort. Same goes for their announced Fate movie, what I heard untill now it will be probably more rushed than Umineko.

Originally Posted by sento

Obviously, you didn't play the Higurashi SNs.

They cut like.... half of the story? Oh, and they almost killed all feeling too, oh and the music was nonexistant, oh and all the motifs were destroyed, oh and they crammed SIX arcs in a season, oh and the animation was... fucking horrible.

Umineko is by far better, really.

I dont understand Japanesse so I read only the first arc. And it wasn as bad as first arc of Umineko. Its probably because Higurashi have chapters that covers weeks and there are is lot of common scenes, but Umineko is still about two days and pretty much each scene can contain clues. But yes I dont read novel, its probably like you said.


And one more complain - I can understand why they put that little money to Higurashi - it was new anime series with quite difficult content (murders of small children every second episode), so they were just cautious because it could became a debacle. But there is absolutely no excuse to make the same with Umineko since its like sequel to Higurashi that was succesfull as hell. That is just greed, becuase they have profit sure even if they make it that horrible.

[urusai]

I played the Umineko SN before watching the anime, and I was dismayed. I raged at DEEN for their bad animation quality, their butchering of emotional scenes, their lousy placement of BGM tracks.

But then I recalled watching Higurashi S1 (with no knowledge of the SN) and enjoying it immensely.

It's all perspective, really =/

[sento]

Originally Posted by urusai

But then I recalled watching Higurashi S1 (with no knowledge of the SN) and enjoying it immensely.

That's because you never played Higurashi novels. Because they did it far worst with them in Higurashi S1.

On other hand, Umineko first watchers are really liking Umineko anime. And right now, even most of the novel readers are enjoying it too.

Originally Posted by NeoWorm

I dont understand Japanesse so I read only the first arc. And it wasn as bad as first arc of Umineko. Its probably because Higurashi have chapters that covers weeks and there are is lot of common scenes, but Umineko is still about two days and pretty much each scene can contain clues. But yes I dont read novel, its probably like you said.

Well, in Onikakushi they cut almost all of Keiichi's emotional struggle to trust or not trust in his friends. And that was the most important thing of the whole arc... Almost like if they removed the whole "I refuse the witch existence"stuff...

But yeah, they butchered Tatarigoroshi or Tsumihoroboshi far worse.

[Raneh]

Originally Posted by Proto

You guys got to learn to enjoy life more you know. This new generation is too negative for its own good

Heh, I agree . Though when I compare Umineko's animation to Higurashi's S1 it has been done well. Of course it might also be that the original characters from the novels are drawn better(opinion!). Anyway, the animation has not bothered me at all during the series unlike in Higurashi (which I mainly liked because of the story).
I guess there will always be people who find out flaws in everything (intentionally or not) but that is usually what creates discussion.

The people who only watch the anime are much more positive since they don't really mind how the animation and pacing are done like the novel readers. The readers know what's going to happen so they mainly focus on comparing (and usually are left disappointed with the scenes that are left out or don't match the novel). It's hard for animation to defeat your imagination!
Also the case with BGM. Readers don't like it when a certain song that is supposed to be there is not. I admit it though there could have been better songs for certain scenes. However, let's not lose out hope in DEEN just yet, there are still lots of epic scenes left!

Well now, as for my own comment I'd say the episode was well enough animated (I didn't notice the flaws other people mentioned!) although the pacing was fast especially at the beginning (yeah, yays for comparing!). It could have included more emotional scenes like the ghosts, but I didn't really mind the lack of emotions when they saw Jessica dead because we have/will be seeing lots of death, it'd get boring to see those reactions all over again so lets just skip it and get to the point.
Anyway, I liked it and gave it a 9

[Leinne]

Everyone knows where all Deen's budget has gone too: don't you all know of one new movie about a certain game that's going to be released more or less soon, done by Deen and that needs a lot of special effects,animation, even better if it's a movie...

OK I'll give everyone a tip: FSN UBW=All Deen's budget, even taking it from the scheduled for other series->Umineko

[NeoWorm]

Originally Posted by Raneh

It's hard for animation to defeat your imagination!

No its not. In fact its quite easy - I was imagining rooms full of whirling golden butterflys and now I remember only grey room with distorted perspective. I feel my imagination was defeated enough.
Animation is one of the best media to support imagination. You are not restricted by reality, since you dont have to work with anything real. But when you are not restricted by reality, it doesnt mean that you can make nonsenses like flying Shannon because you are too lazy to imagine something better. Anime so far is school example of work without invention and fantasy. Its just dull interpretation of core event from VN. Nothing interesting was added so far, only lot of interesting scenes were ommited.

I got it - I know what bugs me on Umineko so much and why I can still enjoy Higurashi - the fantasy scenes. They werent in Higurashi, so their execution coudnt be possibly bad. But they are core part of Umineko and thats what destroys it completely for me.

Originally Posted by Leinne

Everyone knows where all Deen's budget has gone too: don't you all know of one new movie about a certain game that's going to be released more or less soon, done by Deen and that needs a lot of special effects,animation, even better if it's a movie...

OK I'll give everyone a tip: FSN UBW=All Deen's budget, even taking it from the scheduled for other series->Umineko

Their trailer wasnt any example of movie quality animation, the curtain raiser for TV series looked almost the same (quality-wise). I think that they should make only one thing - Umineko or UBW. Because now we have shitty Umineko and and we will have an shitty UBW movie.

I think Deen must love Mammon... And Belphegor too.

[June 1983]

I thought this was a pretty good episode. I didn't think the reaction to Jessica's death was TOO bad -- the only thing that killed me about that scene were the blank, slack-jawed expressions on Gohda and Kumasawa's faces when they were being accused of murder and Battler was defending them. I felt the reactions to finding Jessica were pretty appropriate -- there was some shock (Kumasawa covered her mouth and reared back, etc). They've only just found six mutilated bodies about an hour beforehand, they are in shock already. And anyway, if the characters react to every murder with screams and shouting, it's going to get pretty tiresome. After all, there are a LOT of those scenes in this anime.

I don't think there's anything wrong at all with uploading scenes from the game for anime viewers to watch. There really ought to be a lot more scenes in English from the game up on YouTube, imo. When I was deciding whether or not I should play the game, I went searching, and found very little, except for some scenes very late in the series, and was extremely disappointed. After I played the games, I tried to record the opening scene from EP 1 and a scene from the end of EP 2 to put on YouTube, but I am full of technology fail and couldn't get it to record properly.

Some people mentioned that Kumasawa and Nanjo's deaths don't follow the epitaph -- this is incorrect. The lines say "gouge AND KILL". The gouging does not need to be the cause of death, as Kumasawa, Nanjo, and Genji's murders in the first arc show -- remember, they were bashed in the faces, and then gouged.

As for whether people will be resurrected if/when Battler triumphs over Beato -- well, finding out what will happen then is part of the allure of this series. Personally, I'm not sure at all what will happen to them, but I'm pretty positive it will be something we don't expect. Also, Maria's letter, which someone mentioned, doesn't have anything to do with the Game. That letter, insofar as we know, exists in the universe of the first game. It has nothing to do with the successive games, or how much time has passed.

As for the animation, it's lulztastic, though this week was better than last imo. And anyone who think that Umi's animation is worse than Higurashi S1's is smoking some sweet crack, seriously. Delusional. Higu S1's animation is atrocious. One might say that in a way "it's so bad it's good", but I would just say "it sucks". Higu S1 succeeds DESPITE its awful animation quality and various other flaws (because of the strength of source material and the great performances of the voice actors), definitely not because of it.