2008-07-21, 17:36 | Link #4101 | |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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So either Suzaku is deluding himself or the writers changed it. |
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2008-07-21, 18:23 | Link #4102 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: United States
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You know a lot of people are hating Suzaku for his stance on trying to change Britannia from the inside because many of you guys think it's impossible and won't give it a chance. Many feel that it's naive to uncorrupt a corrupt government and anything Britannian isn't worth saving. However, we saw how Nunally was trying to get equal rights for the elevens in turn 15. Isn't that the start of an uncorrupt Britannia? Isn't what Zero doing going against everything Nunally is trying to accomplish? The night is always darkest before the dawn but I promise you the dawn is coming. Lelouch's actions is only prolonging that.
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2008-07-21, 18:57 | Link #4104 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Harsh Reality, Aisle of Fiction
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OkAY! I wanted to do this earlier this week after watching ep 15 but life got in the way. Since I turn out to be right about Suzaku at least most of the time, who wants to bet on Suzaku asking Kallen to join forces with him in order to protect Nanally from the evil overlord who he knows will not hesitate to use the poor innocent disabled sweet sister of his arch=enemy in order to achieve his evil goals?
I mean, I didn't get the impression there was going to be much of a fight scene between the Lancelot and Gurren, they do seem to be of equal strength at some point but it's not... I dunno how to say this but. Anyway, who bets? XD Cookies to teh winners lD?
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Last edited by Nilie; 2008-07-28 at 09:02. |
2008-07-21, 19:47 | Link #4105 |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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Well the opening sorta shows them "together" but defintely not fighting.
Having the two on Nunnally's side independent but not against Lelouch's factions would be interesting. Having both Guren and Lancelot protecting Japan and Nunnally's kingdom. |
2008-07-21, 19:49 | Link #4106 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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2008-07-21, 19:52 | Link #4107 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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2008-07-21, 20:06 | Link #4108 |
ANIUE!111
Join Date: Oct 2006
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The opening does seem to suggest Lancelot and Guren being together in a non-confrontational manner. I don't know if they will join for that reason, but I do think that Suzaku and Kallen will be working on the same side soon enough, apparently with redesigns courtesy of Lloyd.
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2008-07-21, 21:21 | Link #4110 | |||||
~Hi -mi- tsu des~
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 39
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And what is still not rape, it is just Lelouch being a douche. He did not attack Kallen or anything, it wouldn't even be considered attempted rape. Quote:
Well I agree that everything that needed to be said have already been said on the matter so I am content to leave it at that until someone wants to contest the point farther. |
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2008-07-21, 21:26 | Link #4111 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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*shrugs*
Things would be so much easier if Suzaku wasn't so full of contradictions. I don't hate his character, I just find it extremely annoying to say compared to Lelouch. I still believe that Suzaku is using LL/Zero as nothing more than a moral scapegoat. As long as he believes that his actions are the opposite of LL/Zero, then he can justify his actions as morally correct. If he just admits that he is an evil douchebag like Lelouch, then I'm sure people won't be as harsh when it comes to his character Oh as for the SAZ...I always viewed it as like an internment camp. Those who would join it are those more likely to rebel against Britannia. Instead of having to quell the dissenting horde, they might as well place them in a specific spot so cleansing dissent becomes that much easier. Those living outside the SAZ would probably fare better since it shows that they are willing to confirm to Britannian rule, thus sacrificing their identity as 'Japanese' and living as an 'Eleven'. |
2008-07-21, 21:31 | Link #4112 |
^.^
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto
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Seems like everyone picked up on the idea of Suzaku contradicting himself... Such a mainstream belief that dominated somehow, because of certain actions like "going against friend".
His history ain't great. He can't quite make up his mind either at times. He goes with the flow, but if he was so contradictory, why would he be Knight of Seven? All the Suzaku haters are overlooking what's infront of their eyes And that's just the start. There's much more to it..
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2008-07-21, 21:57 | Link #4114 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I just go by his philosophy that the means must justify the end. Then his so called girlfriend dies (which still pretty much felt like a forced relationship to me) and he goes on his so called character change. I don't mind the whole "going against the friend" but I have a problem with "selling your friend in exchange for power".
Yeah it must suck living a privileged life during your childhood and killing your dad due to your own selfishness. I'm sure Suzaku led a life of hell compared to Lelouch and Nunnally. Why is he going with the flow when he is supposed to be changing the system, or did he forget his goals to focus on his personal vendetta against LL/Zero? The fact that he is a Knight of Rounds is a contradiction to his beliefs, but I guess that's a pointless argument given that he threw away his beliefs after Euphemia's death. I try to analyze his character using both seasons, not just R2. Maybe that's why I find him full of contradictions... |
2008-07-21, 22:12 | Link #4115 |
^.^
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto
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Put yourself in the shoes of this character for a second.
You have a friend. He's an abandoned prince. Later in the future, you see him. Then you find a man who tries to forcefully make his goals come true, regardless of methods. Same goals, different methods. Lulu thinks about the goal ahead and its significance in the end. Afterall, Suzaku isn't trying to get rid of the "Holy Britannian Empire". He's simply trying to change the system for the better. He doesn't hesitate and is commited to his tasks now. He's been a stray dog all his life. But he still holds on to that bit of freedom that he had. He's just making use of it when it's convenient, when it works. Yeah sure he threw away the refrain and acted like his hands aren't stained with sin and crimes. But he's restraining. When you lose your love and you're not given an explanation for it, no matter how much the other person is repenting and thinking, you have no way of knowing. It's not Suzaku's mistake. Lulu never clarified the whole thing. It's just as Ep 15 said. Lulu really wants to be known, but he just can't right now. Being Zero and all, he brought himself this far. He can't just let go of everything he's accomplished. Heck, Suzaku doesn't even know about what's happening right now. Of course he's going to get continuously misled. All in all, generalizing Lulu's "take hold of your destiny/make it come true" isn't a bad ideal at all. But Suzaku's "change from within" is naturally a better course. He hasn't demonstrated that all well because of Euphemia's death. If I had found out that my best friend casted an order on my love to kill people and ultimately kill her, basically using her as his advantageous pawn, I'd be pretty pissed off too. Especially when he continues to hesitate and runs away. When I get the chance, I'd take him down. Once you do that, what would you do, leave him hanging at the place? Taking him to the Emperor was a natural course. Regardless of backstabbing or not. I think for a person like Suzaku, who didn't value his life very much, losing something like Euphemia takes away his meaning. The one thing which kept him in reality went. And he still doesn't understand why. Suzaku isn't contradictory. Rather, he's indecisive and mentally weak at times. His frailty of letting emotion take over goes overboard. Doesn't make him contradictory. I won't even go as far to say his actions are contradictory. They're simply paths that he took to reach his goal, while being blinded due to emotional takeover. Damn, talked too much. I'll say less next time.
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2008-07-21, 22:24 | Link #4117 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto
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His methods probably won't get far in the Empire. But that doesn't make him contradictory and wrong. I prefer Cornelia's stance on the Geass, as well as Lulu's. Suzaku's more careless about all of Geass though, from what I see.
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2008-07-21, 22:27 | Link #4118 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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2008-07-21, 22:42 | Link #4119 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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"I am a monster just like you! Can I join your club please?"
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