AnimeSuki Forums

brocko · 2013-03-23, 08:04

They changed the gender.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTW

An inconsistency you will notice in this episode is that the Fiend is now referred to as a girl (the Fiend was male in the novels). We’ll of course fix the previous episodes accordingly for the batch.

source: http://utw.me/2013/03/23/from-the-new-world-25-end/

Kazu-kun · 2013-03-23, 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Anyways the series actually didn't turn out to be a tragedy like I expected.

I kinda disagree with this. Saki and Satoru might have got a little "happy ending" of their own, but for the human race as a whole it was quite the tragic ending.

kuromitsu · 2013-03-23, 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

The humans got off way too easy. Yeah I realize a lot of them died and a lot of loved ones were lost. But they are still at the top and (with the exception of Saki and Satoru) they seemed to learn absolutely nothing.

Well, you have to take the time frame into consideration. The "trial" happened very close after the war - it's no surprise people weren't exactly in navel-gazing mode. But the point of the 10 year timeskip is, I think, to show that Saki, as the head of the new generation of leaders, is trying to change things. Of course a fast and profound change would be more satisfying for pure storytellng purposes, but given the world and the circumstances, a slow, hard, perhaps even painful change is more realistic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Everyone here knows I was pretty anti-Squealer (well not as a character but as human...) but I was so angry when they laughed at him. And I didn't think he deserved that horrible fate (I was glad that Saki ended it).

I think that was kind of the point.

I mean, Squealer was built up as this horrible bastard throughout the story, and this part is where he gains real complexity. I do think he's a bastard, but as a character he's intriguing, and I'm glad his story developed and ended the way it did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

On another note fansubs state the fiend was a girl. I know this was the opposite of the book but did the fansubs get it wrong or did the anime just change the gender?

They changed his gender. -_-

Kirarakim · 2013-03-23, 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I kinda disagree with this. Saki and Satoru might have got a little "happy ending" of their own, but for the human race as a whole it was a very tragic ending.

I think you are not understanding what I mean by tragedy.

A tragedy is something where through a characters own faults they are brought to ruin.

Unfortunately it might be tragic that the PK users didn't learn anything and it might be tragic that the monster rats are still not treated as human, but this is a not a tragedy in a literary sense.

Kazu-kun · 2013-03-23, 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I think you are not understanding what I mean by tragedy.

I understand, but what I said applies nonetheless.

brocko · 2013-03-23, 08:22

The story itself is one that spans across multiple years, decades, generations and even millenniums. To expect an overnight change in society from a 'lesson' (that even if told and made aware of, people would still have a hard time stomaching) would be a little unfitting for the series imo. Not to mention, the very effects on the established social structure between Queerats and Humans, leaving open an opportunity for another possible Queerat uprising.

sikvod00 · 2013-03-23, 08:25

Squealer's characterization in this episode was fantastic. It's amazing how your opinion of someone can change when they are actually on screen and talking. Before I could only sympathize with his cause in a vague, abstracy way. And I certainly believed he had ulterior motives, such as political power. But seeing him stuck in a cage like a rat (pun intended), tired and defeated yet still defiant really did it for me. Did anyone else get the Roots vibe in the trial scene, when he was rejecting the name his master's "graciously" gave him?
Judge: Your name is Toby. Say your name, boy!"
Squealer: "My....name....is... Kunta Kinte!!!" Indeed it is, my brother.

I would normally object to calling anyone evil in a series as complex and nuanced as this one, but the punishment they sentenced him too was just beyond gruesome and sickening. Some of those people are evil.

The gender swap with the fiend was definitely stupid. Why change it?

gameboy234 · 2013-03-23, 08:32

What the list about?
Tainai 84
Koumi 95
...
..

BluWacky · 2013-03-23, 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameboy234

What the list about?
Tainai 84
Koumi 95
...
..

They're other settlements in Japan - they're named just like Kamisu 66, the village the show takes place in. Tainai is in Niigata, and Koumi is in Nagano.

Kirarakim · 2013-03-23, 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by brocko

The story itself is one that spans across multiple years, decades, generations and even millenniums. To expect an overnight change in society from a 'lesson' (that even if told and made aware of, people would still have a hard time stomaching) would be a little unfitting for the series imo. Not to mention, the very effects on the established social structure between Queerats and Humans, leaving open an opportunity for another possible Queerat uprising.

To explain my own position I wasn't expecting an overnight change. I actually like how they showed little changes with Saki and Satoru. As I said them being happy they have a child is a fitting message that they are looking towards change.

But from a thematic perspective I thought the PK users got off too easily. At least I think they needed a painful lesson not just watching over the punishment of Squealer. Learning something and everything changing is not the same thing.

I do still love the series though and this ending was infinitely more satisfying for me than Psychopass which ended the other day.

SQA · 2013-03-23, 08:57

Squealer was very well done. But don't let how things played out fool you. He's still evil, but it mirrors something that happens in real life all of the time. The queerrats are horrifically oppressed, which means the only one willing to overcome that oppression will, generally, be as nasty as the oppressors. The truth of the matter is you end up with a lot more Idi Amin's than Nelson Mandala's. Squealer was no Mandela. He'd have slaughtered all of the humans if given the chance.

Though I can see why the novel should end on a less hopeful note. Satoru now understands the "logic of the world" as it exists. Which means he should understand the final result: 1 PK user or 0 PK users. That is the only final result, all that is undertaken is to prevent that day from coming even sooner. The humans are still willing to shred all aspects of their humanity for one more day's respite.

charizardpal · 2013-03-23, 09:00

I liked it better back when the akki was sexy from the androgyny. Anime directors: you can have moe males.

I'm a little disappointed Saki didn't do something dramatic at the ending. Like come to a grand resolution and make a vow. They series keeps saying she's strong, but no matter how much they shove that down our throats, in the end she just struck me as mellow....a protect the status quo leader on auto-pilot.

Grabbing the akki's body at the end was a stupid way to milk drama too....what if Squealer had some kind of booby trap? She had just gone through war, and she should be conditioned to not throwing caution to the wind. Frankly Saki isn't the best possible leader, maybe Shun would have been. All I know is I wouldn't want a weak or stupid leader running my village, and trying to find a solution for 1,000 years of atrocities.

What Saki should have done was brought the truth out for the masses so they could confront their sins and change. In real life this was done in South Africa following aparteheid (see: Truth and Reconciliation Commission.) As it is, she never even tells humanity Squealer was right about them being humans. (For that matter I'm surprised Squealer didn't try to prove that to anyone at the trial, just to become a martyr and ensure someone would change things later in history. Sort of seems weak really. I don't think he even told his own race the truth, so it must have been hard to lead them.

...so many unrealistic plotholes there. I know the story is just a simple adventure story and world-building exercise with a hint of mystery, but I was hoping for a more meaningful reveal. Saki found no solution to the twist, and in that sense she failed. So the whole story was meaningless.)

Allium · 2013-03-23, 09:06

Fantastic last episode. That Dvorak music...can't bear to listen to it again without thinking of this series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

I actually ended up sympathising with Squealer myself. When they actually showed the punishment he was getting, my insides were actually recoiling from the horror.

Eternal Hell indeed - I was very taken aback as well, even if Squealer committed all those atrocities. Being reduced to a lump of meat and displayed in a museum of all places...that's just...

Anyway, a good ending to a good series. Gonna miss this show.

articuzwolf · 2013-03-23, 09:10

overall, it's quite satisfying show with relatively sweet ending

definitely show with better ending this season,

especially if you compare it to two noitamina's shows that just ended recently

glad I didn't just drop it when the show was really at its lowest point

Fnights · 2013-03-23, 09:14

An interesting story (humans vs humans aka racism) but nothing special or epic to be remebered.

6/10

Guardian Enzo · 2013-03-23, 09:22

In hindsight, I wish I'd voted a 10 instead of a 9. In watching the ep again and in thinking about it at length, I realize that most of the issues I have are with trying to impose my own implications for a moralistic ending that was never going to happen and would have been out of place with this series.

SSY is a work of art, plain and simple - clearly a labor of love for the staff and a credit to everyone involved.

FlavoryFantasy · 2013-03-23, 10:38

What an ending. I'm still at a loss of words after it. Oh RIP Kiroumaru!

As for Squealers fate - Tomiko's statement of what he'd be subjugated to came true. Though I really couldn't help but feel bad for him when he got what he deserved. The trial itself was pretty disgusting. At least regarding the humans and how they were just laughing at him. Yes they went through a lot not too long ago with losing loved ones, fighting for survival, and in fear of what they thought was a fiend. But man was it just...sad to watch that scene.

Oh and of course the music usage. I won't be able to listen to it the same way again.

No more Saturday SSY mornings either now. It was a good run, despite being a lurker more than a participant for discussions.

apotheosis · 2013-03-23, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by charizardpal

I'm a little disappointed Saki didn't do something dramatic at the ending. Like come to a grand resolution and make a vow. They series keeps saying she's strong, but no matter how much they shove that down our throats, in the end she just struck me as mellow....a protect the status quo leader on auto-pilot.

Grabbing the akki's body at the end was a stupid way to milk drama too....what if Squealer had some kind of booby trap? She had just gone through war, and she should be conditioned to not throwing caution to the wind. Frankly Saki isn't the best possible leader, maybe Shun would have been. All I know is I wouldn't want a weak or stupid leader running my village, and trying to find a solution for 1,000 years of atrocities.

She broke a fairly important rule to do what she felt was right. It might not be a grand resolution, but it shows her growing wisdom. She's definitely not there yet in terms of leadership, but she has progressed.

I was a bit disappointed that they didn't show how humans might change, but at the same time, I'm glad they didn't show some silly trivial change that was supposed to make everything better. Changing their society will be a difficult & protracted battle with the others in power after all.

Overall they wrapped enough loose ends up to make it feel complete, yet leaving the viewer with some wistful curiousity as to what might happen in the future.

warita · 2013-03-23, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I do still love the series though and this ending was infinitely more satisfying for me than Psychopass which ended the other day.

MAAAAN, you are reading my mind. I entered this thread to make precisely the same comment. Psycho pass fell flat compared to shin sekai yori.

I must say this series moved me more that the past 5 years worth of anime.

Grey · 2013-03-23, 10:52

So they did use the self-sacrifice Kiroumaru plan. And with the mirror for sniping it was easier than I thought. Harsh punishment for Squealer; very gruesome; glad Saki finished that. Wished there was a bit more of time skip for the epilogue so we could see more of the new world but oh well.

I totally forgot about the early question about the previous society and non-PK humans because of all the recent episodes' events. It was normal to guess that the bakenezumi were the humans without Cantus back then, but quite a whoomph for them to drop the truth now after that conflict and discussion with Kiroumaru and Squealer. Someone intentionally altered the humans without PK so that death feedback and attack inhibition wouldn't kick in. Daaaamn. Wow. That's...yow.

View Poll Results: Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 25 [End] Rating
Perfect 10	69	57.50%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	37	30.83%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	7	5.83%
7 out of 10 : Good	2	1.67%
6 out of 10 : Average	3	2.50%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor	2	1.67%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	0	0%
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

2013-03-23, 08:22	Link #26
brocko Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯	The story itself is one that spans across multiple years, decades, generations and even millenniums. To expect an overnight change in society from a 'lesson' (that even if told and made aware of, people would still have a hard time stomaching) would be a little unfitting for the series imo. Not to mention, the very effects on the established social structure between Queerats and Humans, leaving open an opportunity for another possible Queerat uprising. __________________ http://www.freerice.com/ - For each word you get right, 10 grains of rice is donated through the UN to help end world hunger.

2013-03-23, 08:25	Link #27
sikvod00 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Miami, FL Age: 37	Squealer's characterization in this episode was fantastic. It's amazing how your opinion of someone can change when they are actually on screen and talking. Before I could only sympathize with his cause in a vague, abstracy way. And I certainly believed he had ulterior motives, such as political power. But seeing him stuck in a cage like a rat (pun intended), tired and defeated yet still defiant really did it for me. Did anyone else get the Roots vibe in the trial scene, when he was rejecting the name his master's "graciously" gave him? Judge: Your name is Toby. Say your name, boy!" Squealer: "My....name....is... Kunta Kinte!!!" Indeed it is, my brother. I would normally object to calling anyone evil in a series as complex and nuanced as this one, but the punishment they sentenced him too was just beyond gruesome and sickening. Some of those people are evil. The gender swap with the fiend was definitely stupid. Why change it? Last edited by sikvod00; 2013-03-23 at 08:38.

2013-03-23, 09:00	Link #32
charizardpal 灼眼の Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Look up. I am hanging from your celing	I liked it better back when the akki was sexy from the androgyny. Anime directors: you can have moe males. I'm a little disappointed Saki didn't do something dramatic at the ending. Like come to a grand resolution and make a vow. They series keeps saying she's strong, but no matter how much they shove that down our throats, in the end she just struck me as mellow....a protect the status quo leader on auto-pilot. Grabbing the akki's body at the end was a stupid way to milk drama too....what if Squealer had some kind of booby trap? She had just gone through war, and she should be conditioned to not throwing caution to the wind. Frankly Saki isn't the best possible leader, maybe Shun would have been. All I know is I wouldn't want a weak or stupid leader running my village, and trying to find a solution for 1,000 years of atrocities. What Saki should have done was brought the truth out for the masses so they could confront their sins and change. In real life this was done in South Africa following aparteheid (see: Truth and Reconciliation Commission.) As it is, she never even tells humanity Squealer was right about them being humans. (For that matter I'm surprised Squealer didn't try to prove that to anyone at the trial, just to become a martyr and ensure someone would change things later in history. Sort of seems weak really. I don't think he even told his own race the truth, so it must have been hard to lead them. ...so many unrealistic plotholes there. I know the story is just a simple adventure story and world-building exercise with a hint of mystery, but I was hoping for a more meaningful reveal. Saki found no solution to the twist, and in that sense she failed. So the whole story was meaningless.) __________________ 「心でなくちゃ、よく見えない。もののなかみは、目では見えない、ってこと。」

2013-03-23, 09:10	Link #34
articuzwolf Wolf in Sheep's Clothing Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Orange Road Age: 34	overall, it's quite satisfying show with relatively sweet ending definitely show with better ending this season, especially if you compare it to two noitamina's shows that just ended recently glad I didn't just drop it when the show was really at its lowest point __________________ Resonance, My Dream!

2013-03-23, 08:32	Link #28
gameboy234 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006	What the list about? Tainai 84 Koumi 95 ... ..

2013-03-23, 08:57	Link #31
SQA Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	Squealer was very well done. But don't let how things played out fool you. He's still evil, but it mirrors something that happens in real life all of the time. The queerrats are horrifically oppressed, which means the only one willing to overcome that oppression will, generally, be as nasty as the oppressors. The truth of the matter is you end up with a lot more Idi Amin's than Nelson Mandala's. Squealer was no Mandela. He'd have slaughtered all of the humans if given the chance. Though I can see why the novel should end on a less hopeful note. Satoru now understands the "logic of the world" as it exists. Which means he should understand the final result: 1 PK user or 0 PK users. That is the only final result, all that is undertaken is to prevent that day from coming even sooner. The humans are still willing to shred all aspects of their humanity for one more day's respite.

2013-03-23, 09:14	Link #35
Fnights Yoku dekimashita! Join Date: Jun 2006	An interesting story (humans vs humans aka racism) but nothing special or epic to be remebered. 6/10

2013-03-23, 10:52	Link #40
Grey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006	So they did use the self-sacrifice Kiroumaru plan. And with the mirror for sniping it was easier than I thought. Harsh punishment for Squealer; very gruesome; glad Saki finished that. Wished there was a bit more of time skip for the epilogue so we could see more of the new world but oh well. I totally forgot about the early question about the previous society and non-PK humans because of all the recent episodes' events. It was normal to guess that the bakenezumi were the humans without Cantus back then, but quite a whoomph for them to drop the truth now after that conflict and discussion with Kiroumaru and Squealer. Someone intentionally altered the humans without PK so that death feedback and attack inhibition wouldn't kick in. Daaaamn. Wow. That's...yow.