2012-01-20, 11:34 | Link #81 | |
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2012-01-20, 12:34 | Link #84 | ||
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I agree that kakashi and gai could each fight one of them. but not 2.5 each |
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2012-01-20, 13:51 | Link #85 |
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Again, I disagree. As sudden as this chapter was, I did get the impression that the Kyuubi had developed a sort of affection for Naruto over the years. I can buy the idea, for once I don't feel like Kishimoto is pulling something out of his ass (and I've had that impression more than once in the past, while reading this series).
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2012-01-20, 14:00 | Link #86 | |
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edit: that being said I dont have as much of a problem with the current turn of events as others seem to. i think naruto conquering his hatred explains the personality change a bit. i do think it should have been drawn out more though. it should have been a much longer and arduous task for naruto to befriend him imho |
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2012-01-20, 14:11 | Link #87 |
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I'm not saying he's ever treated Naruto like a friend. But it is possible to get attached even to someone you don't really like. The Kyuubi may have tried to trick Naruto, but I didn't get the impression that was all there was to their relationship.
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2012-01-20, 15:08 | Link #88 | |
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That's how Naruto changes people: Gaara, Neji, etc.
The method used is not some kind of evolution but it's some kind of revolution. A revolution in the relationship. While they fight Naruto doesn't want the opponent's death or anything like that. He told Neji he would change the hyuuga, and just like that he told Kurama that he wants to help him drop all his hatred. The only case when Naruto failed was against Sasuke, but he lost that battle, and now it seems they will have another battle in the near future. I think that was more like "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and it seems that for Kurama the most hated person is Madara. Quote:
One important thing is that Kurama never says they are now "bff", and he doesn't look like he wants to be friends with Naruto the same way as 8-tails with Bee, so it's more like his respect for Naruto has now grown to a level where it's about the same as his hate level. I think Kishimoto may add a temporary betrayal, to spice up this battle or the next one. Also Kurama can have a quite logical reason to help Naruto: if Tobi succeeds he will cease to exist, his soul will be built into the 10-tails. Before this 10-tails thing was revealed it was said that even if the host dies the demon will later reappear in the world, so it seems the demons are immortal. But now Kurama faces death if Tobi succeeds. But in this chapter we didn't see any sign of Kurama fearing death, so i guess the author didn't mean that to be a reason. But even taking all this into account i have to agree that this was too sudden, as i wrote a few chapters ago it would be better to upgrade Naruto's strength in a different way, i would have preferred a slower pace of kyuubi's conversion. |
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2012-01-20, 17:19 | Link #90 |
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I understand your sentiment, I would just like to see an example from the manga that would elude to the kyuubi having some kind of personal bond with naruto that wasn't just a tactic or trick to escape. It's an interesting thought because it would help make this very sudden change of heart more palatable, so I would like to see it for myself. my hunch is that it doesn't exist though
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2012-01-20, 20:03 | Link #91 | |
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2012-01-21, 05:05 | Link #92 | |
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if kurama did gain any respect for that then it was clearly lost right away which doesn't really make sense to me. kurama's development would have had to keep escalating, not just hit a brick wall right after their first meeting. |
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2012-01-21, 10:41 | Link #93 |
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The kyuubi isn't a person though, and its a very different entity compared to those characters :/
You know, its not like Kishimoto didn't have all the time in the world to work on it gradually. I think there are a great many pages wasted on nonsense, where we could have had a brief conversation between Naruto and the Kyuubi instead, building towards this current friendship; something like the Kyuubi constantly tempting Naruto, only to witness Naruto pulling off great feats without using hatred, and thus gradually admiring Naruto. It wouldn't even have to be much, just a few panels sprinkled throughout maybe every 3-4 chapters or at least maybe every fight, to convey to the readers: hey pay attention, the Kyuubi is starting to warm up to Naruto's charisma. It almost seems as if this freindship was a last minute decision, but thats hard to believe all things considered... With that said, I'm not against the friendship, I just thought it seemed rushed. |
2012-01-21, 10:59 | Link #94 | |||
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I don't think we can call their current relationship friendship, yet. The Kyuubi respects Naruto, thinks he is not like the other humans are, and he also hates Madara and Tobi more than other humans, but calling all this friendship is a bit too much. |
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2012-01-21, 12:38 | Link #95 | ||||
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I read and understood your point about being treated equally, however I think considering what "Kurama" is comprised of (hatred), the author should have shown the transition much smoother than this, and not throw it all at the audience in such a short period of time. Quote:
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2012-01-21, 12:49 | Link #96 | |
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That being said, here's hoping that the Kyuubi's change of heart (however badly presented) will carry over into the eventual/potential Jyuubi. |
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2012-01-21, 13:02 | Link #97 |
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And you do realize that those five hundred seventy chapters are the exact reason that this feels rushed? For five hundred sixty chapters the nine tailed fox has been purely evil and now he has suddenly learned how to smile and fight with naruto? The befriending process should have happend more spread out. The fox could have shown little signs of respect after the fight with pain or he could have showed even the slightest bit of sympathy after naruto's most recent encounter with sasuke. now it feels like this is coming out of nowhere. The fact that it has been made so obvious that the fox is a pure mass of hatred for five hundred sixty chapters is exactly the reason why it feels weird that the tailed beasts suddenly have feelings and names and are capable of compassion.
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2012-01-21, 14:23 | Link #98 |
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-You know, looking at the two of them, Kurama and Naruto's situation evokes a folk story I heard once. A young traveling merchant encountered an ill-meaning nine-tailed fox. However, the merchant was able to get a hold of the "orb" it carried (the source of its power and life). The fox begged the merchant to return it, promising eternal companionship/loyalty and prosperity for the merchant and his descendants. The merchant showed kindness and returned the orb, when he could have easily killed the creature. The fox remained true to its word, and from that day forward, never left the merchant's side.
-I can understand people finding this development a bit rushed but I think people are forgetting some factors that worked towards this change, however abrupt. -One of them was Killer Bee and his relationship with the Hachibi (I really want to know his name now). Killer Bee demonstrated that not only could a jinchuuriki and their bijuu work well together, but they could also be friends/comrades something which both Naruto and Kurama took note of. -Another was Naruto conquering his own hatred/anger/darkness. Doing so naturally allowed him to gain some perspective on Kurama's situation. After all, if he can let go of his inner "demons", then there's no reason Kurama, who's obviously intelligent, couldn't learn to do the same or at least acknowledge a possiblity. -Finally, the two of them have been in battle non-stop since entering the 2nd day of the war, with each battle escalating in stakes very quickly. I dunno, something tells me relationships develop fast when you're under constant enemy threat. And when said threat is equivalent to "you die, then the world goes all chicken-in-the-rain". -As mentioned before, I loved this chapter. Its what I've been waiting for to happen for years. But I can see why others are having a bit of trouble accepting it. Fortunately, this is most likely only one step to where Naruto and Kurama ultimately end up. Let's just see where it goes ok?
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2012-01-21, 16:44 | Link #100 | |
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I personally was even annoyed at some points during the story that he still can't control Kyubi,when it's obvious that he will by the end. |
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weekly spoiler discussion |
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