Macross Frontier - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Jarppa]

Just finished this episode and I have to say it was nice ending. They both loved him and thats just life (and anime ) If the movie is gonna resolve the TL ill root for Ranka. She was my favourite of those two.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Both heroines are flawed but great characters. Whoever Alto chooses, he is one lucky guy.

[glyph]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

Both heroines are flawed but great characters. Whoever Alto chooses, he is one lucky guy.

On the other hand if he chooses to deliberately continue to lead them both on indefinitely after all the trouble they went through to present him with the privilege to make a choice unencumbered by circumstances and obligation, he's just a dick.

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

or the budget went low for the project. have to think to create a series also costs money and maybe the marketing department had low budget so that they had to restructure the money flow.

I highly doubt it was because of money due to Macross being the cash cow that it is. I believe it was due to the 25 ep limit (because of its the 25th anniversary) that they had to rush things. The movie will most likely be a sequel since it was announced just as the series ended.

Originally Posted by golthin

no doubt about it. that is why I crowned sheryl the winner before we got trolled by kawamori .

Either you ship Sheryl or you don't ship golthin. Which one is it? You claim you don't ship... but here you crowned Sheryl winner before the end and even now? An objective PoV would say that the LT hasn't been resolved due to lack of clarity from Alto.

Please make up your mind.

Originally Posted by Jarppa

Just finished this episode and I have to say it was nice ending. They both loved him and thats just life (and anime ) If the movie is gonna resolve the TL ill root for Ranka. She was my favourite of those two.

I'll be quite blunt about my opinion on the matter. I believe with 25's ending, Kawamori is trolling Ranka shippers so that they'll stay with the Frontier till at least the movie. The reason being is because of subtleties and homages paid to Hikaru x Misa... through Alto and Sheryl are too much to ignore.

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

Both heroines are flawed but great characters. Whoever Alto chooses, he is one lucky guy.

One of them is more flawed than the other really, he may be luckier with one over the other.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by -Tsuzuki-

And to add insult to injury, they had to bring Minmay back too. Why?

maybe because it is a homage to the anime character that hovered macross to a love story and not only cranky mecha clashing epic fighting anime.

not to forget that the path of hikaru, misa and minmay is still untold.

[Wesley84]

And who cares about that? People die. Move on.

[Father Hentai]

you should watch more macross series/movies or even read the mangas to understand what lynn minmay iconize.

maybe you'll understand that she still is - and will be - a key person in the macross universe.

[abynormal]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Fck your pop icons.

Man, if you hated the music angle in Frontier, you'd better stay way the hell away from Macross 7. The music factor in Frontier is a hammy, but in 7 it's just plain inexplicable.

(

Spoiler for wtf?:

assuming you haven't seen it) Example: Basara's battle tactic is to fly his custom Valkyrie into a swarm of enemies, transform and use the gunpod to launch amplifiers into every ship in range and start rocking out. Yes, he does take his guitar into the plane with him.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Actually I can't figure out how he can sing in space. I thought sound did not travel thru space.

[Jazzrat]

hijacking into the enemies' radio freq? shooting speakers pod onto their mech?

[TwilightHack]

When will you guys learn, DFTT! (Don't Feed The Troll.)

And yes, speaker pods ftw.

[kujoe]

Well, Basara got a Meltrandi fleet to go on fangirling over him. What's not to like?

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by golthin

you know, when it comes to who won or lost, you don't have much credibility because you have Sheryl's shipper goggles on. It is like the Ranka shippers using Alto right hand to reach for the girls, and because Ranka is on the right side , that he chose her. Now you use the subtle things that are mostly homage to the previous macross series to give sheryl a victory in case the movie is just a retelling and this never get solved.

Why can't it be accepted that the director let the LT unresolved even though Sheryl should have won. I know it was crappy to reset everything, heck i wish Alto had actually kissed sheryl( it is still not 100% sure that he kissed her that time off camara). There must be a reason that sheryl thought that Alto was just pretending to be lovers with her. She knew that if they were really lovers he would have kissed her that night after dinner.

If kawamori want to resolve the LT in the movie it has to be a Sheryl win, or he has to come with a very good reason for an Alto x Ranka ending. Only way i see it happening is the sheryl keeps singing and starts going back on tours and Alto doesn't want to leave his "sky".

<facepalm> I give up. Honestly, we already made those arguments during the discussions in the last weeks. Apparently you slept through those, or you are just being obstinate. And Kawamori didn´t "reset" anything. He just didn´t conclude.

[TwilightHack]

^ I'll give you a hand magnus.

Originally Posted by golthin

you know, when it comes to who won or lost, you don't have much credibility because you have Sheryl's shipper goggles on.

And let me start off with this... your credibility is lost because you can't make up your mind as to whether you're shipping a girl or not. You bounce back and forth more than a pin ball in a pin ball machine, that's saying something.

It is like the Ranka shippers using Alto right hand to reach for the girls, and because Ranka is on the right side , that he chose her. Now you use the subtle things that are mostly homage to the previous macross series to give sheryl a victory in case the movie is just a retelling and this never get solved.

As opposed to Ranka shippers who use their personal thoughts and opinion as basis, Sheryl ships/Neutral parties use subtleties based on facts provided... and they also use actual homages to past Macrosses. Clearly if you don't get the subtleties and the homages paid, you haven't watched the past and current Macrosses closely enough.

Note 1: This is address to all those who still believe Alto saluted both girls. I'd suggest you re-watch the scene and take special note of the Sheryl's screen positioning, Battle Frontier's positioning, Alto positioning, and the direction Ranka is facing in contrast to the screen when Alto salutes. Think about it.

Note 2: As a director, you do not blow your budget to painstakingly detail a scene (ep24, Sheryl x Alto... animation, bgm, homage) if it did not signify something. That scene has the best character design animations in the entire show coupled with beautiful background music we've only heard twice (iirc). Take note of the bgm in ep 24 and compare it to the Sheryl x Alto scene in ep 22. Is it significant? Yes, very much so even to non shippers.

Why can't it be accepted that the director let the LT unresolved even though Sheryl should have won.

It is my own opinion that SK left the LT unresolved to keep the Ranka ships afloat till the movie comes out. Why blow off a portion of your fanbase when you can milk them all for a time? Why give the majority fanbase an LT conclusion/ending that wouldn't live up to former Macross standards?

Ep 25 was much too rushed to be able to offer a proper, well done conclusion to the LT.

I know it was crappy to reset everything, heck i wish Alto had actually kissed sheryl( it is still not 100% sure that he kissed her that time off camara). There must be a reason that sheryl thought that Alto was just pretending to be lovers with her. She knew that if they were really lovers he would have kissed her that night after dinner.

There was no reset.

Also, you must have missed the end of ep 23, forgotten Sheryl's situation at the time, and still not understand who Sheryl is. Combine the latter two with the conversation she had with Alto before dinner and the part of the conversation she heard between Klan and Alto... And there's no mistaking how or why she mistook the context in which Alto and Klan were talking.

If kawamori want to resolve the LT in the movie it has to be a Sheryl win, or he has to come with a very good reason for an Alto x Ranka ending. Only way i see it happening is the sheryl keeps singing and starts going back on tours and Alto doesn't want to leave his "sky".

Here you go again contradicting yourself... saying you don't ship and yet press for a Sheryl win. That's extremely hypocritical on your part.

And here you have the galls to try and discredit someone else who ships the same person as you.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

^ I'll give you a hand magnus.

Thank you very much, TH.

[Joachim]

if you are saying i as sheryl fans was using my shipping google in seeing all those subtle reference.. then why 2 of my friends who was not even shipping anyone did see those subtle reference?

the ranka fans subtle reference was more "biased" then sheryl's one

"The right hand of victory"

yea right right hand, because he pick right hand then it is by any means picking ranka over sheryl (which was on the left side of his hand) *sacrasm

while sheryl's one :

"Salute" (get beaten soo hard that is not even funny) try to think about it, why the image of sheryl also saluting was behind the oh so big ranka, subtle? yes it is kinda like a trap for ranka fans to see that ranka was also saluting alto back.. but no she didn't

"Ranka's down looking and "i won't lose" word": also got beaten to death, but not so much, still not much counter from ranka's about this.

while i maybe as you said wearing my shipping googles, but heck it was clearer than ranka's one

[golthin]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

Either you ship Sheryl or you don't ship golthin. Which one is it? You claim you don't ship... but here you crowned Sheryl winner before the end and even now? An objective PoV would say that the LT hasn't been resolved due to lack of clarity from Alto.

Please make up your mind.

There are many differences between me and a sheryl's shippers. I don't see the subtle hints in episode 25 that say that sheryl won. After episode 21, I thought sheryl had the victory in the bag. Before episode 21, I thought that Ranka was ahead. Now after episode 25, I believe it is just a reset and that both girls have a chance, but Sheryl still have a lead because of all the time she spent with Alto. I was not "shipping" for sheryl to win, I have always have said that the "I am dying" card gave Sheryl too much of an advantage (something a Sheryl shipper will never acknowledge) over Ranka, but I understood that it couldn't be overlooked thus why I crowned sheryl the winner.

I was not familiar with M7 until I read somewhere about it and after watching some episode and reading how ended I came to realize why this was left unresolved.


You don't have to be a sheryl shipper to see that Sheryl should have ended with Alto after episode 21 and everything that happened in episode 22 thru 24. Only Ranka's Fans were in denial about it, you could say that Ranka's fans had more to be rejoiced about how the series ended than sheryl's fans. I still see many Sheryl's fans claiming victory when it is so obvious that nobody won.

So to summarize what differentiate me and shipper from either of the two girls.

1. I don't hate Ranka or sheryl.
2. I believe Ranka was ahead of sheryl before episode 21.
3. I believe Sheryl's lead after episode 21 was so large that only a Hax could give us a RankaxAlto ending.
4. I don't see the "subtle" hints that give Sheryl a sure win in episode 25 (they are just homage to the previous series).
5. Alto's purpose was revived after he saved Ranka and also revived Ranka's hopes.
6. Alto has feelings for both girls, both romantic and of different types.
7. Sheryl's disease gave her such unfair advantage over Ranka that the director had to do a reset to be fair to Ranka after he took her out of the competition for so long to further his plot. The pity card + any feelings Alto had for Sheryl was so much.
8. I thought that Sheryl's fan were using immaturity too much to justify their hatred for ranka. Ranka was justified to be a few years behind her peers due to the traumatic events that happened to her, the director even came with dissociative Amnesia as reason for this and Sheryl's fan always shrug her condition.

9. and the Final but most important is that I believe NOBODY won, there are shippers from both sides that are still claiming victory.

Edit:I don't know if you misunderstood my previous post but if you go back, I said that I had crowned Sheryl the winner after episode 21. but episode 25 changed that.

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by glyph

On the other hand if he chooses to deliberately continue to lead them both on indefinitely after all the trouble they went through to present him with the privilege to make a choice unencumbered by circumstances and obligation, he's just a dick.

lol his line while talking to both girls "you're (while talking to sheryl and then suddenly) ... both of you (also looking to ranka) are my wings"

maybe the dude was thinking.. wait if i can pick both why not

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by golthin

There are many differences between me and a sheryl's shippers. I don't see the subtle hints in episode 25 that say that sheryl won. After episode 21, I thought sheryl had the victory in the bag. Before episode 21, I thought that Ranka was ahead. Now after episode 25, I believe it is just a reset and that both girls have a chance, but Sheryl still have a lead because of all the time she spent with Alto. I was not "shipping" for sheryl to win, I have always have said that the "I am dying" card gave Sheryl too much of an advantage (something a Sheryl shipper will never acknowledge) over Ranka, but I understood that it couldn't be overlooked thus why I crowned sheryl the winner.

I was not familiar with M7 until I read somewhere about it and after watching some episode and reading how ended I came to realize why this was left unresolved.


You don't have to be a sheryl shipper to see that Sheryl should have ended with Alto after episode 21 and everything that happened in episode 22 thru 24. Only Ranka's Fans were in denial about it, you could say that Ranka's fans had more to be rejoiced about how the series ended than sheryl's fans. I still see many Sheryl's fans claiming victory when it is so obvious that nobody won.

So to summarize what differentiate me and shipper from either of the two girls.

1. I don't hate Ranka or sheryl.
2. I believe Ranka was ahead of sheryl before episode 21.
3. I believe Sheryl's lead after episode 21 was so large that only a Hax could give us a RankaxAlto ending.
4. I don't see the "subtle" hints that give Sheryl a sure win in episode 25 (they are just homage to the previous series).
5. Alto's purpose was revived after he saved Ranka and also revived Ranka's hopes.
6. Alto has feelings for both girls, both romantic and of different types.
7. Sheryl's disease gave her such unfair advantage over Ranka that the director had to do a reset to be fair to Ranka after he took her out of the competition for so long to further his plot. The pity card + any feelings Alto had for Sheryl was so much.
8. I thought that Sheryl's fan were using immaturity too much to justify their hatred for ranka. Ranka was justified to be a few years behind her peers due to the traumatic events that happened to her, the director even came with dissociative Amnesia as reason for this and Sheryl's fan always shrug her condition.

9. and the Final but most important is that I believe NOBODY won, there are shippers from both sides that are still claiming victory.

i got your point but heck some of the most rabid sheryl fans was even denying that the LT was over on episode 23 while you was ever so sure that it was already ended...

its just a matter of opinion anyway, a homage of old series yes, but why its not a subtle reference? you are forcing your opinion to those that think otherwise

i'm curious whats in your mind during ranka's action and attitude before saying "i won't lose to you in both sing and love"

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Joachim

i got your point but heck some of the most rabid sheryl fans was even denying that the LT was over on episode 23 while you was ever so sure that it was already ended...

its just a matter of opinion anyway, a homage of old series yes, but why its not a subtle reference? you are forcing your opinion to those that think otherwise

i'm curious whats in your mind during ranka's action and attitude before saying "i won't lose to you in both sing and love"

Well, sheryl rabid fans are claiming victory now. I guess Sheryl's fan knew Kawamori better than me and were a little worried about being trolled. I guess they were right

About Ranka's challenge to sheryl, it is just challange, something she never did openly and now she is ready to fight regardless of her opponent being sheryl. sheryl's fan take her words as sign that Ranka knows she is losing, but at least she wants to fight to the bitter end. It is not over until Alto-hime sings