2011-09-28, 11:49 | Link #21 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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A good comparison is Legend of the Galactic Heroes (the Anime, I don't know about the Novels). The similiarities between LoGH and RoTK are obvious, but LoGH is dividing into 4 "parts" which make the whole thing easier to digest, rather then being one large sprawling narrative. That, or instead of depicting the whole thing, it may have been better to focus on certain key events. For instance, the Iliad does not focus on the entire Trojan War, it only focuses on the events leading up to the death of Hector. In that sense the Iliad is a much tighter narrative. @Xagzan: The Iliad and RoTK have some similiarities, but also some big differences. I actually think comparing it to Thucydides "The Peloponnesian War" is more appropriate, though Thucyudides is not a Romance, or a novel, like RoTK is. It is, however, like the Iliad very "epic", big characters, big persolanities, big events. Unlike the Iliad, of course, it's not about conquering a single Town (by modern standards Troy would be a town!), but the struggle for an entire Empire. So it's a lot less intimate then the Iliad. I also think the Iliad has more subtle and complex characterisation, and likewise it has more interesting themes. I think anyone here who has an interest in "traditional" literature, who haven't already, should start reading the Greeks. Their influence on Western Culture is enormous, mostly because their work was top notch. It really doesn't come much better then Oedipus Rex, The Iliad, The Odyssey or Herodotus's "The Histories". There's something for everyone. English translations are very common (it's absurd how many translations of the Iliad there are, at least 20 or 30) |
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2011-09-28, 14:16 | Link #22 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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2011-09-28, 14:52 | Link #23 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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That said, Thucydides is a lot more Real Politik then RoTK, which has a much more moralising strain to it. On the flip side, RoTK is filled with all kinds of schemes of dubious morality. But Thucydides is the more realitistic book. In fact, it's kinda scary reading Thucydides, it makes you realise how little the world has changed. |
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2011-09-28, 15:41 | Link #24 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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Besides that, there's the eroge Piano~ Slaves of the Red Mansion~ which uses the basic title and characters for parts of the game. |
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2011-09-28, 17:51 | Link #25 | |||
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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If he really used the words "defile the sacred name of the abode of the goddess"... an ancestor of the modern 2ch otaku? Quote:
- Baoyu-san - Baoyu-chan - Nii-chan (Nii being the double meaning of "elder brother" and "second" at the same time) - Nii-Gosujin-sama (meaning second young master) Sounds like a pretty good start for an eroge. And there is a tropelink for it. Thank goodness they didn't bring in Qin Zhong or this game would be overrun with fujoshis commenting about his route like Cross Days.
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Last edited by SaintessHeart; 2011-09-28 at 18:01. |
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2011-09-28, 18:02 | Link #27 | ||
うるとらぺど
Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 44
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With another one no less :- Speaking of which, I don't suppose people want to discuss Jin Ping Mei more, given it's subject matter ? |
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2011-09-28, 18:08 | Link #28 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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I personally would say that Jin Ping Mei might be too red for most people here. |
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2011-09-28, 18:13 | Link #29 | ||
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 34
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One boy we know for sure won his round: Alexander, son of Philip of Macedon. He never grew out of it. Quote:
But it is a myth, indisputably so (unless you're applying the term in an extremely limited, Greco-Roman centric usage: iambic pentameter, in media res, all that BS; IIRC I don't think the original Iliad was even iambic). Before it had been written down it had already permeated Chinese culture and produced oral traditions, dramas, proverbs, and so on. And as can be seen up to the present day it still has the effect of inspiring new generations of storytellers in one way or another. In a sense it is not as extensive as the Ancient Greeks who had a sophisticated cycle of mythologies written around the Iliad proper (which, as anyone who read it should notice, covered a few weeks of a ten years war, and not even the last days of it), but this is countered by the fact that the work itself is several times longer than the Iliad. There are even elements which contained magic and folklore in unusual degrees -- the death of Sun Ce for example. Moreover, certain events contain far more dramatic characterization than others; most notably the story of Dong Zhuo, Lu Bu, and Diao Chan (she being clearly a fiction invention most probably of Luo Guanzhong). So how do you approach ROTK? Honestly, I don't know. I grew up with it; I don't have to approach it. IMO I was submerged in it deeper than how today's generation of Western students are submerged in the Classical tradition. Maybe a few generations earlier, when Liberal Arts = the Classics, but even then there was a severe distance -- and a major competing tradition, namely the Christian Bible. But at the very least you should probably have a map when reading ROTK, just so you know where the bloody hell Jingzhou is and so on (answer: it's kind of right in the center of China, though earlier it was probably considered a "gateway to the South," hence why it was so bloodily contested). Oh, and try not to be bogged down too much with all the names. There are really a relatively small number of dominant characters guiding the story at any time. If you want to know which character had the most cultural impact (and hence worth remembering the name for), look up Dynasty Warriors or something (ignore the women though). |
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2011-09-28, 18:50 | Link #30 | ||
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2011-09-28, 19:58 | Link #31 | |||
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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You don't get that feeling of futile inevitability from Chinese mythic works, because I suppose the Chinese didn't have the same kind of conception of "Fate", or Human beings occupying such a lowly and meaningless place in the Universe. On the flip side, I do like the themes of "Righteousness" in RoTK. Quote:
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2013-02-14, 15:39 | Link #34 | |
思想工作
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 31
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I am shying away from the Four Classics because they would take me forever to read and understand -- The most I know of ROTK for instance is the oath made in the beginning and that Cao Cao gets his ass kicked at the Red Cliff. I am somewhat more familiar with JTTW and know some of its episodes. There was an abridged DoRC picture book that I had as a kid, and while I didn't care to read much of it, I kept thinking that Baoyu was a girl from the way they drew him.
As far as old texts go, for now I'm more interesting in taking philosophical works -- stuff like Dao de Jing, the Art of War, representative texts of the Confucian canon, or various poetry, and committing them to memory. I love the cleanliness of Classical Chinese; unfettered with redundant characters and auxiliary particles, it gets straight to the point. Quote:
PS: I picked up a copy of the first 1/6th of The Tale of Genji awhile back and read some of it. I intend to finish it as some point. |
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2013-02-14, 15:57 | Link #35 | |
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
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It is a old chinese quote " Don't let a old man read Romance of three kingdoms, and don't let a young man read Water Margin" So, poor target audience? Also, for people who have trouble reading RoTK due to its length, try reading this manga http://mangafox.me/manga/sangokushi/ I have friends from China who read this and admit it is very close to the original. While my American friends (Non Chinese) keep thinking Cao Cao is some kind of super villain a la medieval version of Cobra Commander-Somehow magically gather millions of troops as if he printed them like Dollars to the Federal Reserve...while Lu Bei and co were the classic Dungeon and Dragon RPG character. |
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2013-02-14, 16:10 | Link #37 | |
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
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The former depicts the lives of outlaws and their defiance of the social system and may have a negative influence on adolescent boys, as well as the novel's depiction of gruesome violence. The latter presents every manner of stratagem and fraud and may tempt older readers to engage in such thinking.-Power of Wiki~ |
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2013-02-14, 16:11 | Link #38 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
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That's strange because I have seen it associated with 聊斋(don't know what's the official translation name, but it is a collection of supernatural or ghost short stories), but I have never seen it with Journey to the west. In my opinion, Journey to the west appeals most to the children.
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2013-02-14, 16:15 | Link #39 | |
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
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2013-02-14, 16:18 | Link #40 | ||
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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