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Well, ultimately everything is perspective. So if you want to play that game, I can say that what X is/are Y is completely dependent on the reader. Do you want to post and let me do it to you? It gets real old, and is used as a child move. People who really don't give a damn simply don't post or ignore the post. =] I have nothing against that, whether I ignore people or others ignore me.
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I'm not the one implying that the person I'm argueing with is using child tactics.
I choose not to ignore you because I feel like I need to at least defend FT, as it is one of the more enjoyable read around these days.
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Success is the only universal way of agreeing what works. The word interesting is all dependent on the gamer no? Ho Ho Ho. Either way, FF7 obviously > Xenogears.
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What works and what is better are two completely different things, it is like saying gasoline is better the Nuclear energy as a power source. FF7 only > Xenogears because it was part of an extremely popular franchise, while FF7 was an excellent game in its own right, a large amount of its sucuss can be attributed to good marketing and the fame of previous Final Fantasy titles. Xenogears had nothing preceding it; it was the first (and only if you don't count Xenosaga) of its series.
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Do you truly believe another MMO can beat WoW in overall game play and mechanics? That is the funniest thing ever, considering WoW's success in the millions does not result in anything else. A small factor comes from the old fanbase, yes, during which the FIRST year it sold like what? A million? Maybe a bit more. That's nice, but that's not 60% of the market. What do you think made WoW the biggest fattest, most successful monopolizer of MMOs? It's AMAZING graphics that even my 6 year old laptop can play? No, it's the polished game play and mechanics that receive numerous updates over the years. You can name any MMO you want, and I can name you more exploits and imbalances than you can name in WoW. I don't even play WoW anymore either (was sponsored to play), and I've never liked it, but I do acknowledge Blizzard's quality control over a game. Have you seen how far they took the game in just one year of release? Or even a couple of months? The game evolves by leaps and bounds in polish, something stuff like Age of Conan or what not cannot even come close to. New mechanics and new game play features are what new MMOs offer, but they mostly lack one thing, and that's polish. Warhammer might be different, but so far, most games fail to understand that the reason Blizzard has a track record of 100% is not because they are innovative, but they play it safe and only use things and release things that they know have a 100% chance of not sucking in a big way. The fact that you can hate a game or a product over it's success especially over general statements just goes to show how deep your thinking is.
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First of all, as a person who has played MMO's for a while now, I have to say WoW is one of the most overrated things to ever enter the scene. It had a terrible launch and was far from polished, and is still plauged with bugs and terrible class balance. It has an immensely bad dependency on Elite gear that makes anyone without said gear completely outclassed. WoW is far from the worst MMO on the market, but it is only considered the best because Blizzard sucked in its huge fanbase from the Warcraft franchise and threw so much money into advertisment you would have to be living in a cave to not know what it was.
Blizzard also has a terrible record of ripping off ideas from other franchises and claiming it as their own; they have even suffered lawsuits due to it in the past (particularly the Warcraft franchise and Warhammer, Blizzard lost that btw)
I don't hate a game because it is successful, I hate it for being successful despite the fact that it really doesn't deserve the praise it gets.
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The sky is blue, the grass is green. Yeah okay, so what? The point is, when the success of two different products is significant, there is more than just excuses. I've eaten at restaurants that I thought were far better than other 3-star restaurants at a much cheaper price, but ultimately there are enough reasons over time that make me understand why the first restaurant will always be low class. Say the first restaurant was in the middle of nowhere, then eventually the quality of food will be lower for many reasons. Eventually, that 3-star restaurant is better in quality just like it was to be. Just because your franchise is better in one way, doesn't mean you can survive on it alone. As time goes on, the other franchises can copy your techniques and traits, while you get left out in the dust. Isn't that how the evolution of entertainment or even anything in this world goes?
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So now we are entering survival of the fittest? What you just said is exactly what I was getting at, you can find things that are less successful, but far better then things that are considered "the best" purely off their success.
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You might say FF is boring compared to Xenosaga, and heck I can even agree, but the one factor you forget is that the people of Japan like FF more, and due to that, they were able to sell more, and therefore get more money, and therefore develop more. It takes REAL talent to have something that can't be copied, something that is seen less than winning billion dollar jack pots. Anything else is just something you currently rely on to survive that hasn't been copied yet. Nothing more.
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While I agree more money should = better development = better game that really doesn't seem to be the trend. I don't know how you feel about FF12 but Ugh, that game got pretty boring at an astounding speed. Sure the Japanese loved it, and I'm glad someone got enjoyed the game, but I can't say I did. (or any of my friends who got it)
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=] I don't bond with squat, I just acknowledge the characters. If you watched the OP anime, and you can actually forget about the CP9 arc or the Sky Island arc yet remember Iron Dragon, then you already have something about you that obviously the masses don't. If you didn't, then that's your problem. I already said it, the main thing OP has over FT is the anime. Finding their powers entertaining is already enough, as Gerard pretty much showed us how an end boss can be completely boring and generic to the max.
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I didn't forget about those arcs, they simply dragged on so long I found it hard to remain interested in them. While those arcs certainly had their moments, I still think they suffered from being overextended.
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Gantz is a bi-weekly if not monthly series. Nuri lasted 2 years in production. Pretty sure that hasn't happened since Namek on Dragonball. It's a big difference than anything other series so far have done in this generation. It's about time versus results. We can say the same thing about Gerard. He's been the big cheese for the entire time FT started, why does he suck so much even though he is so significant to Erza in the arc? Because they wasted all this time on him. If say, he was for 1-2 arcs, then he'd be a perfectly acceptable character.
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I'm glad that this latest chapter finally brought up what has been hinted at all along, Gerard really wasn't really that big of a player in the big scheme of things. You may believe that he was the big cheese for the entirety of FT, but he really didn't make a major appearance until volume 4.
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YHBT'd =] aka you believe in reading out loud when people type in caps. It goes to show how much hold the internet and it's text has over you.
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I'm glad to see that isn't the case, so could you just ease up on the caps?
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Trust me, if we got some hardcore OP fan in here, he'd give you buckets that rivaled this. I can say Camie/Hatchie's chapters in the current OP arc already dwarf Lluvia/Lucy, and they are minor characters that won't reappear for a long time after this arc. What's your point? It's ultimately "perspective" if you want to say NO THAT DOESN'T COUNT I DON'T SEE IT THAT WAY.
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It really is just a different style of storytelling. OP chooses to focus on characters that are in the long run nothing more then minor characters. I'm certain that some people enjoy this aspect, but I find it to be overdone and even a waste of panel-space in some cases.
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Ummm, Zeref is acting through Gerard. So before we KNEW all this Zeref possesses Gerard crap, it's impossible to acknowledge anything other than the fact that Gerard was the current main baddie. I don't go OH MADARA IS THE MAIN BADDIE OF NARUTO cause HE WAS BROUGHT UP THE MOMENT ITACHI ARRIVED. Wha? Zeref at this point you don't even know if he WILL come back. He might just be a super boss that NEVER will come. The fact that you even tried to argue this fact was beyond silly, and proves you like using specific details over actual outlines. When a NEW reader reads FT for the first time, does he think of Zeref first or Gerard? It's like saying hey man, do you think of the Old Geezer first or Igneel when you think "who's the biggest bad ass of the good guys?" Obviously if you haven't seen 101 yet, you CAN'T SAY IGNEEL. If you do, you are just tunnel visioned into the characters that haven't even come into play yet. Background importance =/= main villain until they APPEAR.
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Zeref's creations were causing trouble before Gerard even did anything that remotely hinted at him being a villian. Gerard had 2-3 panels MAX before volume 4, so a reader who just started most likely wouldn't even recognize who Gerard is before then. Not sure how comparing the Old Geezer (a character we have never seen, and have only had 1 or 2 references to) to Igneel (a character we have seen just recently, and his power is ultimately unknown) relates to Zeref (the Greatest Dark Mage in FT history) to Gerard (A member of the Mage Council who turns out to be a bad guy)
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You want a perfectly good example? Let's look at Slayers. The Lord of Nightmares is the ultimate bad guy, seeing as how she wants to squash everything she created. She is constantly hinted through out the series, right from the get go too. So is she the main villain? Or is Rezo/Copy Rezo/Gaarv/Phibrizzo the main baddies of each arc? And here's the funny part too, LoM DOES come into play in the series, so at this point, she's more of a player than Zeref. There's not a single slayers watcher that thinks LoM is the main villain.
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The LoNM didn't show up till the VERY end of Season 2 of Slayers, and really didn't become an active villian figure until near the end of season 3. I'm not even sure if FT has that much material yet, so we can come back to this in about another 100 chapters and see if this still remains true. (Which it obviously won't now that Zeref is revealed to be alive)
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That's rivalry. The main point of most shonens. =] you can call it what you will, you can call what I say what you will, but my speculations are more important than your inner conflict. How many threads are there about side characters and X vs Y in shonen threads and how many rivalry threads are there? You can figure that one out PRETTY EASILY. I don't care what you NAME my terms, the fact that you acknowledged them already gave me the victory. Try claiming Sasuke vs Naruto is the focal point of naruto fans right now. Try it. No one gives a CRAP.
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Rivalry and Inner Conflict have two different meanings to me, so if you associate the words together then it really is a mute point, as this part is simply a miscommunication between the two of us.
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So? That's still a boss. What's your point? This is another example where you take a term I used (of course I don't claim that my term is definitive, but it'd be nice if we just used the same damn terms/definitions) and change it's definition yet avoid the point I make. This isn't arguing, it's beating around the bush because you have nothing else to say. If you claim Crocodile is a big cheese, then you already lost. The shichibukai are employed by the WORLD GOVERNMENT. That means they are BELOW something. They might not listen, but by TECHNICAL terms, they ARE below. There are also SEVEN of them and only ONE FLEET admiral and THREE admirals. Numbers clearly show the superiority of the marine staff. I even used your own "big cheese" definition against you.
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It really is hard for me to say that the Marine's have complete reign over the Shichibukai; especially at Kuma acting on his own and ignoring his "superiors."
We really don't know what the circumstances are behind their employment; they could well just have been hired to work for the government, but that doesn't mean they are obediant lap-dogs; they are still Pirates after all.
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DURRR GUESS WHAT ZEREF WAS?
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The big bad apparently.
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He was a big bad, albeit for only a few seconds. You can call him an arc villain if you want, but that's pretty much the definition I gave big cheese anyways. Good for you, please re-write websters if you get the chance.
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Well I have to disagree with you here, and please keep your sarcasm to yourself.
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Yes, but it's one LONG adventure. So therefore it never needs to be said again. There is no BREAK from it. Whereas in FT you go okay I'm back guys. LETS GO AGAIN. It's a different system. Did you not get what I said about how OP deals with extra casts better? The fact that Erza invited her friends to FT pretty much proved my story. More cast = more wasted screen time on cannon fodder. You can't say no, because we pity them, and it's the right thing to do for these types of stories. So now you got 3 more useless people.
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and yet you equate FT as the same type of story as OP, and claim Rave Master is a different type of story so doesn't count. Notice a double standard here?
The answer to your own question here is that they are a different type of story.
The home of the characters in OP is their ship; and their ship is a way for them to continue their adventure and complete their respective personal goals (Pirate King, Best Swordsman, Deep Blue, Etc)
In FT the Guild is there home, and they work to sustain the guild; their adventures are a part of their job, so naturally they come home and have "breaks." It wouldn't make sense if they didn't.
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We are in the FT thread, obviously people will like it when it's damn obvious. We can also go to the OP thread and they have like, a GIANT thread probably bigger than the entire FT thread about Luffy this Luffy that. What's your point? Your statements are BIASED, all PERSPECTIVE based.
Also, here's the funny thing, read my posts again.
1. I acknowledge Natsu is a "cooler character" than Luffy
2. I acknowledge Natsu has a better look than Luffy
3. I outlined why Natsu is inferior to Luffy in fighting (you however stated jack squat about his fighting panels/portrayal)
4. I stated why Luffy's more silly and plain character fits his role better
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LIKE HOW LUFFY IS INFINITELY COOLER THAN NATSU T_T DESPITE BEING INFINITELY STUPIDIER IN CONCEPT THOUGH IF YOU WANNA GET INTO THAT PLZ INQUIRE IT'LL TAKE ANOTHER SPAM POST T_T
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Now I may have misunderstood the above quote, but that is what I was responding to.
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You want me to reply to you how you reply to me? Luffy is for friends and family and people of all ages, while Natsu is for teenagers who are angry and looking for a bad ass hero to look up to. OHHHH GOOODY. VERY GENERIC. VERY OBVIOUS. VERY POINTLESS. It's posts like these that reward you with caps lock. Ask yourself this every time you post, if you wrote like this on an ESSAY, or if you did a MATH TEST without showing the WORK DONE, WILL YOU PASS? The ANSWER is your conclusion (AKA YOUR OPINION/BIAS), the work done is the FACTS/CONCEPTS/INSIGHTS. You so far have ZERRROOOO.
It's funny how I've stated more about Natsu than you have, and you just pretty much take my statements, simplify them, and hand them in to me
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and once again you respond to caps, sarcasm, and name calling. You do no out of the two of us you acting more immature. You started out being rather civil but I'm getting tired or argueing with you not because your stubborn, or because I believe i'm losing this arguement, but because your childishness is starting to grate on my nerves.
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I know vice versa people too, what's your point? ANOTHER GENERIC ANGRY HERO WITH AN ELEMENTAL SKILL?
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It becomes Generic because its popular and successful right? (notice the irony and sarcasm here)
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I connected FT to Rave master in chapter one. Before the first arc ended I already re-connected it to One Piece because of the lack of people DYING and the lack of REAL DANGER. Rave master is like 666 Satan. They are the counter parts to their more popular successors (though it was the brother who did 666 satan not the naruto guy), RM and OPH both take killing and dying more seriously, offer quicker developments and of course, the stories end faster. RM and OPH both also have a "THIS AIN'T GETTING BETTER" type thing, where as OP/FT you struggle with balance, where there are various points you can go "hey, they can take a vacation now!"
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I don't remember people dying in Rave Master very often until after Haru's father and King bit the dust, and that was around Chapter 70 or so. If you discarded the similarities between Rave Master and FT after FT's first Arc (umm, the one that ended with Zeref's monster being triple teamed with Erza/Natsu/Gray?) Then I think you passed judgement way too quickly.
I do agree that RM took dying very seriously, but it remains to be seen if FT will eventually take that route as well. At one point RM was just as "carefree" as FT is now.
I do recall more then a few "Hey, lets take a break!" moments in Rave Master though.
2008-09-10, 21:26
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I'm still relieved that she's alive. 
"Focus entirely on me, you ordinary soldier."
Wait, how old IS Natsu anyway...><
