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View Poll Results: Steins;Gate - Episode 19 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 40 | 47.06% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 26 | 30.59% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 11 | 12.94% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 8 | 9.41% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll |
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2011-08-11, 17:44 | Link #161 |
Name means little...
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Just one thing to add.
Equality becomes moot when: 1. lol pistol + hit squad against unarmed folks. Male or female are equalized in the face of bullets! 2. power of reading steiner vs hapless know-nothing.
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2011-08-11, 18:17 | Link #162 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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As far as the accountability of Moeka vs. Okabe, as Panzerfan mentioned: Reading Steiner. It's true enough however that whatever Okabe does, it doesn't really matter either way (except as a reflection of his character as the hero the audience follows). Quote:
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2011-08-11, 18:25 | Link #163 | ||
On a mission
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Plus, applying it to a practical situation as well. And catatonic? She reacted viciously to her phone and would not give it up without a fight. Whether you like it or not, she was gonna react violently and not easily subdued. Anyhow, if you cannot comprehend why cutting someone's oxygen supply off is dangerous and why you can't just learn these incapacitation skills instantly, I really think you should stop posting on this matter. Unless you tell me you regularly subdue dangerous people safely on a regular basis. Tl;dr it's much easier to hurt someone than subdue someone. Quote:
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2011-08-11, 19:01 | Link #164 | ||
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In my view, Okabe shows empathy simply by restraining himself to delivering a lone punch, and saying some harsh words to Moeka while he had her pinned down. If he had went any further than he did, I'd be inclined to agree with you, but the fact is that this is pretty restrained for a man confronting the person who he equates with his best friend's killer. Personally, I see such restraint as a sign of basic human empathy; a recognition that this is another human being that he's dealing with here, so while taking a measure of revenge on her is understandable, he shouldn't totally brutalize or lynch her either. But for Okabe to not want to take any measure of revenge on Moeka would not merely be showing human empathy, it would indeed be him acting like a total Saint, as Archon alluded to. And that's a standard that's higher than what I'm prepared to expect of an anime character outside of a magical girl anime. Fact is that many people in Okabe's position would have gone all the way here. They would have literally killed Moeka, and/or brutalized her like she was a Jigsaw victim in a Saw movie. They likely would have considered it justice in the name of Mayuri. Personally, I'm thankful that Okabe isn't that much into revenge, at least. Going into this episode, I was expecting Okabe's inevitable meeting with Moeka to be dark and brutal, it just went on longer than I thought it would, thus starting to be discomforting to me after awhile. Did people really think that Okabe would go easy on Moeka given how he witnessed her kill Mayuri? I didn't like this darker side of Okabe, and I hope we don't see much more of it, but given the extenuating circumstances, I think you're weighing it way too heavily against him. Quote:
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2011-08-11, 21:07 | Link #168 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: USA
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I think that punching her was the safest course of action in the situation he was in, namely engaged in a violent struggle with a semi catatonic person who is capable of killing. In her current state she's a danger to him and herself, so he stunned her and was able to get away with the phone safely. I just threw the idea out there because it is possible. Like I said Okabe probably would not be able to take advantage of it because he's on the verge of a breakdown already so adding however many weeks it would take to become proficient would probably be too much for him.
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2011-08-11, 21:12 | Link #169 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Virginia, USA
Age: 62
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Not necessarily. With each time leap, Okarin runs the risk of jumping to a strand where he does not successfully make it back to the time machine to do another time leap. Just because we've always seen him successfully time leap as many times as he wants does not mean that he will continue to do so. I'm not a game player, but I can easily imagine a Bad End where Okarin loses his time leap abilities (losing the equipment for example) and gets stuck in a time strand that's absolutely horrid.
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2011-08-11, 21:22 | Link #170 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: USA
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With d-mail he runs that risk because he can't predict what will change, but time leaping just transfers his memories to an earlier point in the same limeline so assuming he is only leaping back to a point where the equipment exists he knows the timing of most events and it is relatively safe (everyone else will do exactly what they did the first time unless his actions change what they do). It can't change the divergence level so it's useless for his overall goal, but unless he destroys the equipment himself or indirectly it will still be there.
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2011-08-12, 00:42 | Link #171 | |
Skyclad Observer
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Steins Gate
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2011-08-12, 01:20 | Link #172 | |
Waiting for more taiyuki!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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And...I have no problems with the punch and kick that Okabe gave Moeka.
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2011-08-12, 01:26 | Link #173 | |||
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I normally don't post, but here are 3 things I'd like to comment on.
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Okarin's struggle in this episode showed empathy as well as a host of other thoughts and emotions. That's what it means to be human and that's part of what makes his character so great and believable. What he displayed in that scene was human nature. He's not Batman, he's not Bruce Lee and he's not Stephen Hawking. So no, I don't expect him to do a three point submission or a blood choke (whatever that is) or go and buy a taser because the minute he does that, this entire plot is NOT believable. But hey, maybe you would understand that if you actually had gotten off your high horse, SAT and WATCHED the previous episode (y'know the one you said you couldn't even sit through). That might help clear things up a little bit. and 3) This is NOT a gender issue. Seriously, and I think this is what everyone else has been trying to say... People have been punched for doing less. One punch is not heinous, in fact...everything else Okarin did after that (the alleged rape) should be considered far worse. |
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2011-08-12, 02:30 | Link #174 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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A late reply for Triple_R's inquiry...but also this:
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Contrarily, I can actually somewhat understand Okabe's frustration at the very moment he witnessed Moeka's complete obsession with FB, and the way she was not even responding to anything else. It's not a "You killed Mayuri!" thing, but a "Do you even realize what you have done? You killed Mayuri for something miserable like this?" sort of feeling. However, implicit in the act of "understanding, then hate" is that you already understand. And in this way, resisting the emotional descent into hate is always possible. It's not really about whether Okabe has a 'right' or not; humans will always do what they do, regardless of its legitimacy. I am not judging him so much as a person than judging his actions in this single particular circumstance. I think it is always unfortunate when hate is chosen over acceptance (of reality, at least) because hate ultimately does not even do anything for the hateful person him/herself. I don't think it takes a saint not to hate others so much as simply an awareness of the burden that you yourself represent and a willingness to seek understanding. In any case, foregoing hate itself does not deny resistance or the ability to take action when necessary. Self-sacrifice might be what I would refer to as sainthood. Self-restraint is, in my opinion, nothing all that extraordinary. Quote:
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2011-08-12, 02:40 | Link #175 | |
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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Where the fucking fuck do you get the idea I approve genocide, mass slaughter and racism? Don't even dare saying that to my face, because my parents' families WERE victims of a genocide, and as an asian living in the 1980s in Europe I have been on the receiving end of racism, because apparently the northern africans of my town were so frustrated with the racism of the local police that they decided it would be a good idea to vent their frustration on the ching chong I am, and I hated every single seconds of it. And I will not change any of it if I had the power. Last edited by Sheba; 2011-08-12 at 03:11. Reason: typos |
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2011-08-12, 02:43 | Link #176 | ||||
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What Okabe did was the most emphatic thing: lay it all out in front of her against her will. You could call it tough love, and this is what someone who'se witness a very important person to him die dozens of times did. If you saw someone who'se as good as a sister to you die that many times, tell me that you wouldn't feel any resentment toward her? Even then, Okabe wasn't trying to kill her, but help her, even if against her will (which would lead to her death, hardly a favorable outcome for you, I presume), and most importantly help Mayuri, which was his main objective to start with. Quote:
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2011-08-12, 03:06 | Link #177 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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Okabe's actions might've been human nature, yes (that covers a very wide range FYI, Bruce Lee and Stephen Hawking included :P), but I find it a stretch to say that witnessing human nature is always great and 'enjoyable'. Sometimes human nature can be real ugly, and that's a sad thing; it's good to be aware, of course, but it hardly needs to be celebrated. No one said that Okabe shouldn't have tried to get the phone, which the majority of your post was based on. There are just two points here, which I've gotten tired of repeating, so maybe this will be the last: If Okabe's goal was solely the phone, he should've knocked Moeka out to make things easier for both of them. Alternatively, if Okabe's goal was to open Moeka's eyes, he could've done it without physically beating her in the face. |
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2011-08-12, 03:37 | Link #178 | |
Awakened One
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Italy
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You cannot question an unconscious person, so your suggested methods don't work. Heck, if the problem was just getting the phone, he could have waited until Moeka fell asleep! But Okabe didn't think that far, he just wanted to send the D-mail as soon as possible. This is human and understandable. I don't blame him, in fact I praise him for being so restrained and even apologizing afterwards to Mayuri's killer. And if you say that Moeka won't kill anyone in this particular timeline, I can retort that even Okabe's actions will be erased after he sends the right D-mail.
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2011-08-12, 03:55 | Link #179 | |
Disabled By Request
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2. I'm tired of repeating this too: reason does not reach one who is in delirium. By the sound of your posts, you would prefer if he had simply talked to her, but as Gohan78 pointed out, it's as good as talking to someone who'se unconscious. |
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2011-08-12, 04:45 | Link #180 | ||
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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