Higurashi Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[kj1980]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 17.

Thread Guidelines

• No telling or asking for RAWs.
• Try to keep spoilers from the Game or Manga out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Game / Manga, either PM them or use Spoiler tags (see example below).
• Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
• Be polite to your fellow forum members.
• Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.

Spoiler Tag Usage

Using Spoiler Tags is easy. Using this...

[spoiler=title]Don't forget to use the spoiler title[/spoiler]

....will get you this...

Spoiler for title:

Don't forget to use the spoiler title

ADDITIONAL RULES FOR Higurashi no Naku Koroni

• Make sure you read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni before you ask questions!!!
  
• Feel free to utilize the info on the TIPS section as a complement to this series.
  
• Feel free to share your theories and speculations. In fact, I encourage you to do so as this is what makes this series interesting.
  
• I am designating Sushi-Y and Freakman to lead the discussion in the correct path without spoilers as they have played the game in advance. I put confidence in them that they will recognize a member has spilled the beans too far if any other members has begun to play the game.
  
• SPOILERS FAR ADVANCED THAN THE CURRENT AIRED ANIME EPISODE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THIS INCLUDES THOSE IN SPOILER TAGS!!!. People tend to peek at spoiler tags; especially when they do not know such tag is meant for the episode, only to find it spilling the beans too far advanced in the game storyline.

[Freakman]

As usual the distorted faces looked pretty weird, but it's not like it started in this ep.
I found Shion's seiyuu performance pretty good. The kejime scene was kind of chilling.
I'll let Sushi do his rant about how they slaughtered the game again, because I've grown seriously tired of playing the "spot the differences" game, although I can understand where most complains are coming from.
I'd like to throw in a prayer for the anime staff to at least use a Dai track once in the anime...　おこりそうにないが。。。

Watanagashi's mystery is almost up. Ladies and Gentlemen, place your bets, and anxiously wait for episode 18.

[Rasuberi]

Aha... I found Shion's "shocked" faces to be weirdest. Can pupils get that small normally?

I enjoyed this episode a lot really... answered many things I was wondering. Mainly things that have to do with Satoshi and Shion. The kejime scene was great though... Mion...　こわっ！ Can't wait for the next episode~!

I'm really glad I read through this forum though. TT__TT; Otherwise I'd not enjoy the anime as much since I wouldn't understand things... the pacing is way to quick. I hope I can buy the games soon~

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by Freakman

I'll let Sushi do his rant about how they slaughtered the game again, because I've grown seriously tired of playing the "spot the differences" game, although I can understand where most complains are coming from.

It's not as if I like to do that, but I suppose it's clear enough that there's always going to be a few things that's just "off" with each episode.

In this episode it was:

Spoiler:

- Akane-san...!? What did they do to Mion and Shion's young and sexy mom!?

There were a few other spots that kind of made me go "what the...", but nobody probably cares even if I explained, so I'll leave them.

I must commend the staff for the kejime scene in this episode though:

Spoiler:

It was excellently done, Shion's fear and pain came through perfectly. Mion's "cold business face" was cold indeed, but it's important to notice that Mion is only forced to appear cold because of her duty, and that it really pains her to see her sister get punished. Mion knew that losing 3 nails was the easiest and lightest punishment that Shion can get off with, that's why she insisted Shion go through with it.

Other than that, yeah, I'm surprised they actually showed the whole kejime process, even down the to painful details like Shion slipping on her second strike, causing her nail to only come off halfway (which is a lot more painful than if she had cleanly took it off). I was going "owowowowowow" just from watching it.

Also, although short, there were monologues by Shion in this episode. If only they could use them for more than just narration though... (Kyon can narrate and think at the same time, why can't Shion? ^^; )

Looks like next episode is going to be the turning point in the chapter, hmm... There are some great confrontations left in the chapter, I'm looking forward to them.

Originally Posted by Rasuberi

Aha... I found Shion's "shocked" faces to be weirdest. Can pupils get that small normally?

She also have tear-glands that work like water-taps. ^^;

[Eleutheria]

Originally Posted by Freakman

I'll let Sushi do his rant about how they slaughtered the game again,.

Err...


----

Anyway, the raw came out pretty quickly this week...

So that was the kejime (distinction?) scene... to think that both Mion and Shion have the same seiyuu It was quite the gory scene, though.

Spoiler:

So we still don't know whether Satoshi ran away or whether he was snatched away via onikakushi. Shion ostensibly redeemed all three people with her fingernails, but it must've come as quite a shock that Satoshi didn't get away 100% as well.

Satoshi was exculpated of the murder, which could've been the Sonozaki family's way of letting him go. So Satoshi's disappearance could have nothing to do with Sonozaki at all.

We do get a window into how the Sonozaki family handles its family business...

[Freakman]

Also something I forgot to mention :

Spoiler:

It seems they pinpointed the murder on Satoshi : at least the animation made it pretty clear. But even the game didn't if I remember correctly.
Also : I don't remember from the game, but doesn't the conversation between Satoshi & Shion mean that when Keiichi calls Mion in Tatarigoroshi, it was actually Shion ? Or do we have to assume that Shion just told Mion about Satoshi's call before the murder ? But it doesn't really make sense for it to be Shion in Tatarigoroshi, as she plays no role there. I'm confused

[LostBlue]

kejime (distinction?) scene

I don't know if there is a clean translation for Kejime in English. Kejime I guess roughly translates to Distinction, but is often used in the way Higurashi shows it... (well, not always to that extreme). To make the distinction between what's forgivable or not... to make the distinction of one's resolve... usually in anime/movies/tv/manga that involves a sadistic party this distinction is made by a difficult and usually painful condition set by the opposing party. If Shion didn't complete that task there then she is seen to be unable to make the distinction for her uncle's and Kasai's fate...

that's the best way I think I can explain that...

--

Overall, I think I like the episode... there's a few things that caught me off-guard but nothing really crucial (I'm guessing the way they did the telephone call the short epilogue will be cut - not really important since there's no Minagoroshi). The two things that struck me was first the audience for the Kejime...

I imganined Oryou sitting in like a throne waiting for the victim like a game evil overlord would with the Kejime device right by her hands so she can get a VIP look. The audience was much smaller than I thought too... oh well, that was just my imagination.

Second is the 次期頭首 Mion's voice and demeanor... whoa~ that's scary. Much scarier than what I imagined in the game. Although it was quite amusing to hear Satsuki-san go Cold Demon for one line, pleaing tearful girl the next and back again. She must of had fun

[LostBlue]

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Freakman

Also something I forgot to mention :
It seems they pinpointed the murder on Satoshi : at least the animation made it pretty clear. But even the game didn't if I remember correctly.

yeah, that was one that struck me as weird. I don't remember it being explict in the game either at any point just vague enough allusions to make the gamer think it was. Well, the scene in the anime was all just a shadowy figure but the voice... well, maybe a low budget is to be blamed?

Also : I don't remember from the game, but doesn't the conversation between Satoshi & Shion mean that when Keiichi calls Mion in Tatarigoroshi, it was actually Shion ? Or do we have to assume that Shion just told Mion about Satoshi's call before the murder ? But it doesn't really make sense for it to be Shion in Tatarigoroshi, as she plays no role there. I'm confused

hmm... I personally think it was Shion who picked up the call... but... it probably doesn't matter much either way. Mi & Shi talked to each other alot so it might have been the way you explained above. I think the only important thing is K1/Satoshi made the call rather than who received the call.

[Eleutheria]

After reading the interrogation summary for this episode in the TIPS thread, I must say that I think like Oishi.

Whether that theory hews close to the truth or not, the following may then be possible:

Spoiler:

Shion gets heavily influenced by Oishi's theory. She now hates the Sonozaki family, especially Oryou and probably Mion as well.

When K1 comes into town, she sees an opportunity for turnabout, since the situation is now the mirror image of Satoshi.

--Shion liked Satoshi, Mion likes K1.

In order for Shion to have her revenge, she needs to line up the scenarios exactly.

--Satoshi incurred the wrath of the head family because he was "bad": he is a Houjou, and a killer.
--Thus Shion tricks K1 into visiting the taboo temple on the day of the festival, making him a criminal in the eyes of the head family.

One thing leads to another and we see the scene at the start of Meakashi-hen: Shion tasers Oryou and Mion, and does her own version of torture on everybody. Add swamp gas and everybody dies...

[Circular Logic]

I have one word for this episode: ow.

Curse my sucky Japanese skills. I'm going to have to wait for the sub :/

[TougeSil80]

Spoiler:

I feel for Shion. Man, I couldn't bare watching her finger nails getting pull off like that, I had to skip some of it. But still, man, this ep is well done, although it didn't explain much. Satoshi could've been killed by one of the three mafia families, or he could've got onikakushi'd.

[USCPharmacist]

Don't mess with the "FAMILY" man.

And I think is kinda suck for Shion that while she looks exactly like Mion in every respect she has no power whatsoever in the "FAMILY". Kind of like an extra that shouldn't exist. It must do wonder for her psyche.

I also wish the show will show us what going through Mion's head when she torture her sister. Mion is either a crazy bitch just like Shion, or she is trying hard to control herself in front of the "FAMILY". It must hurt to compose herself while her sister scream in agony.

BTW, so what if Satoshi killed her Aunt? The is no reason for the Sonozoki family to get mad at other people killing each other except there is something the family want to hide from the police. Which means that they do not want attention from the police at all and Satoshi did just that. Since the Old Hag hate the Hojos that just make the situation worse. Although I wonder if the Old Hag order her goons to take out Satoshi anyway or that they force Satoshi to go away while setting up a scapegoat for the police to divert their attention. I record that the suspect die eventually, probably murdered by the Sonozakis. It seems that's how Sonozaki do their business. They probably also threaten the police to some degree, so only Oishi is sticking his nose in thing and no one else.

[kj1980]

All usual minor differences aside, this one excelled in portraying Shion's grueling torture scene with the nail remover. They did everything that was written in the game, including the slip-up on her second shot. I squirmed in the original game with the text, but seeing it animated just made me shudder even more. Ouch!

The anime did cut out a large portion of Oishi's interrogation/interview with Shion at the end, but I managed to write a not-so-brief rundown in the TIPS section here.

It's interesting to see Kujira doing the voice for Aunt Houjou Tamae. It fits perfectly well with her speciality of doing voices for obnoxious middle-aged women. Well that and Orochimaru from NARUTO.

Oryou! Her hard dialect makes it difficult to decipher what she is saying, but they did an excellent job in portraying her as an evil mastermind. And no, I'm not saying any further.

What did they do to Akane-san!? She's supposed to be a MILF, yet they made her...sigh. I'm too tired right now to go on ranting. I'll post a screenshot of her later so people can compare.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by kj1980

All usual minor differences aside, this one excelled in portraying Shion's grueling torture scene with the nail remover. They did everything that was written in the game, including the slip-up on her second shot. I squirmed in the original game with the text, but seeing it animated just made me shudder even more. Ouch!

havent seen this ep yet but WTF? torture scene of shion...how could they T_T not gona be happy watching that scene...

[Sinestra]

Posted in the wrong episode forum Mod can you please erase sorry thanx

[LostBlue]

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

- Akane-san...!? What did they do to Mion and Shion's young and sexy mom!?

Originally Posted by kj1980

What did they do to Akane-san!? She's supposed to be a MILF, yet they made her...sigh. I'm too tired right now to go on ranting. I'll post a screenshot of her later so people can compare.

Just for comparison...

Wow, lining them up like this...
Akane-san aside, I do like how they did Kasai-san. Mion's father looks a bit better in this EP compared to his rendition in Himatsubushi. Still not Yakuza enough for me tho.

[Rasuberi]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

Just for comparison...

Wow, lining them up like this...
Akane-san aside, I do like how they did Kasai-san. Mion's father looks a bit better in this EP compared to his rendition in Himatsubushi. Still not Yakuza enough for me tho.

Why couldn't they have left Akane to look like she did in Himatsubushi, even. >__<; *tries to ignore the wrinkles* Before I even saw Akane in the anime, I loved... her... why~~~?

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

Wow, lining them up like this...

And graphics were the weakest part of the game too. ^^;

Imagine the Akane-san from someone good like Mori Keiji-san...

[Deku Kirby]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

I do like how they did Kasai-san. Mion's father looks a bit better in this EP compared to his rendition in Himatsubushi. Still not Yakuza enough for me tho.

...What? Kasai is Mion's father?

[Shizen]

Originally Posted by Deku Kirby

...What? Kasai is Mion's father?

No, Kasai is Shion's bodyguard, but you can see their father sitting next to Akane in the torture scene (the guy with the glasses)