2013-02-22, 03:32 | Link #101 | |||
The First Rasengan!!
Join Date: Nov 2007
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also sasuke is gonna have to team up with naruto at some point Quote:
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2013-02-22, 04:14 | Link #102 | |
magoi, magoi!
Join Date: Dec 2004
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2013-02-22, 04:54 | Link #103 | |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Anyways, I won't deny that the Nine-Tails has saved Naruto's ass on more than one occasion, but I will also name a few instances where the Nine-Tails has been more of an obstacle than help. -During the fight with Deidara -During the fight with Orochimaru -Can't do fusion with the frog -During the fight with Pain Some might not entirely agree and say that those instances worked in Naruto's favor, but to me it's more like a lucky break that it did. Last edited by Dengar; 2013-02-22 at 05:13. |
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2013-02-22, 08:10 | Link #104 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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2013-02-22, 09:33 | Link #106 | |
Senior Member
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Location: East Cupcake
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2013-02-22, 09:52 | Link #107 |
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
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You're both right and wrong James. Naruto never was an underdog as far as we, the readers, knew because of everything you've said however he used to be an underdog as far as most of the characters were concerned because they didn't know any better. Although even then it hasn't been true since Naruto received a standing ovation after defeating Neji 516 chapters ago so that's real old news.
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2013-02-22, 10:50 | Link #108 | |
Senior Member
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2013-02-22, 11:24 | Link #109 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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Who said anything about an underdog losing? Underdogs win all the time, but they win after beating the odds. Naruto has almost always had the odds stacked in his favor (or at lest kept things equal). Even in the Neji fight the odds were frankly stacked in his favor (it was blindingly obvious that Naruto would be able to defeat Neji's most powerful technique) and he won not through hard work (per se), but determination and the Kyuubi (I personally never saw Naruto's triumph as hardwork vs. genius, but rather overwhelming power and determination vs. genius).
People may have not believed in him, even treated him like the fool he was/is, but he was never truly outclassed and could instantly switch the entire battle to his favor just by tapping into the powers given to him by the Kyuubi. That is not to say that I don't believe that Kishimoto may have intended for Naruto to be considered an underdog (Kurenai's words during the Kiba fight show just how truly dumb she is), he just failed completely at the task. Quote:
The character's refusal to acknowledge Naruto prowess has always been baffling and frankly reeks of Kishimoto purposely keeping the characters dumb for overly simplistic emotional moments (e.g. the standing ovation). |
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2013-02-22, 12:19 | Link #110 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
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^I think you have your own definition for what underdog means...
underdog: (1) a person who is expected to lose in a contest or conflict. (2) a victim of social or political injustice both describe naruto perfectly during the first part of the series that we are discussing |
2013-02-22, 12:24 | Link #111 |
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
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I think the problem here is a question of definition, being an underdog doesn't mean you aren't likely to win (ie playing the odds) it's about being expected to lose.
Of course one should follow the other in a logical world but that's not the case here so even if all those people had to be complete moron to expect Naruto to lose given his Jinchuuriki status and track record the fact remains that they did expect him to lose which make him the underdog by definition. |
2013-02-22, 12:38 | Link #112 | ||
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2013-02-22, 12:49 | Link #113 | |
Senior Member
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2013-02-22, 13:41 | Link #115 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
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When people talk about clans like the Uchiha or Hyuuga and even smaller ones they never ever mention the Uzumaki clan. Even when people learn Naruto's surname there's absolutely no reaction, not even from older people who should have more knowledge about the world. It's not only the clan itself, but there were two very special persons, two women who were wives of 2 great hokages and had the name Uzumaki, one of them being pregnant right before she died. Even if people didn't know that the kyuubi is inside Naruto they should have known that Uzumaki is special. But they knew that the kyuubi was inside him. Then there's Naruto himself, why didn't he ever ask who were his parents, how did they die, or that maybe they are alive. He was 15 years old, traveling around with Jiraiya who really liked him, but they never talk about Naruto's parents. Jiraiya never tells him about his parents, even if he should know that telling Naruto the truth would probably help him becoming mentally stronger and thus their training to tame the kyuubi would have better results. Even the raikage knew who his parents were, that doesn't seem to be a deep secret of the village, and when it's revealed it seems to be common knowledge to the higher ups of the village (in this case Jiraiya and Tsunade, but obviously Danzou and the elders should also know about that). So we either say that it's unrealistic or that ninja in this manga are generally retarded Even elite ones like Jiraiya or Tsunade have as much empathy as a stone, as they didn't even bother telling Naruto who he was. But that was just confirmed in the current chapter by the 2nd and 3rd hokage's behavior towards Itachi and Sasuke Of course i understand that all this is for plot reasons, if ninja just talked about their problems and resolved their conflicts by talking then there wouldn't be non-stop ninja fighting and that can't happen in action shonen manga |
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2013-02-22, 14:42 | Link #116 | |
Ninja Emperor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 38
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I love the fights in Naruto but epic fights are hard to follow in the manga. When they are depicted in the anime they are enjoyable. In the manga it almost feels like an uneventful chapter.
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2013-02-22, 15:53 | Link #118 | |||
The Mage of Four Hearts
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Age: 33
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Remember the match with Neji? Everyone was surprised that Naruto could use the Kyuubi's power at all, much less at will. Judging from that, we can tell Naruto wasn't meant to be a weapon like most Jinchuuriki, so it's not all that surprising they didn't treat him like one. Quote:
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2013-02-22, 17:09 | Link #119 | |
Corrupted fool
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: I'm everywhere
Age: 33
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2013-02-22, 18:53 | Link #120 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Getting back on topic (above discussion is interesting but not really relevant to the chapter), seems like Orochimaru not only experimented with Hashirama's DNA but also copied some of his jutsu if his summoning of the Rashomon gates is any indication.
Also about Hashirama and Madara meeting as kids, yes their clans are enemies but neither of them knows each other's names (they didn't actually introduce themselves to each other) nor are they displaying their clan symbols, so it's just two kids having a chance meeting and nothing more. |
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