Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 47 Discussion / Poll

[DmonHiro]

Originally Posted by comeatmebrah123

U know I just thought of something. Maybe bael isn't really where that Agnika Kaieru's soul is stored. It was actually inside Barbatos

There's no soul stored anywhere. That was just a superstition. Bael really was Agnika's MS.

[Ernietheracefan]

Originally Posted by DmonHiro

There's no soul stored anywhere. That was just a propaganda. Bael really was Agnika's MS.

We're on the same boat..

I wonder if Gaelio's actual plan is killing Macky, backstabbing Rustal, dissolving Seven Stars, and revealing all of the Gjallarhorn's BS..

[haseo0408]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I agree with this statement. I know that the lives of the men is more important than the name, but I don't think running away and hiding is going to be the answer either. Sure the people keep their lives, but what kind of life is that? Always looking over your shoulder, forever running, it's worse than where Tekkadan was, even when they were simply CGS. For all the people that gave their lives for Tekkadan since the beginning, I don't think this is what they would have wanted either. It's basically saying that people like Rustal, Iznario, Iok, they win, and none of them will every have to answer for the travesties that they committed throughout the series. Orga keeps asking for Mika's all, so I want him to use it. I know it might lead to Mika's death but I've already kind of accepted that.

I know it's really cheesy, but a few 300 lines come to mind in this situation. Like "it's better to fight and die on your feet than live on your knees" or something like that. (Its been a VERY long time since I saw 300 )

The poster for the last episode event has Mika and Orga looking like their usual feisty selves, so I'm expecting every one to go for it in this last battle!

I know what oyu mean, not only it will be an insult for all the comrades that lost their lifes in battle but the world would reamin the same if Gallajhorn is not reformed, a horrible place where you can´t even dream with anything better.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Thinking about it McGillis may take one for the team.

Spoiler for Speculation:

Tekkadan takes over Montag Company with McGillis' blessing.

[Skaddix]

Yeah Tekkadan forced to hide and live on the run while Rustal and Iok live it up would be a terrible ending.

[Router25]

About Rustal's rambling about a scapegoat and how it was done before, could it be that GH was already corrupt and used Agnika as a supposed sacrifice to cover it up after the war??

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Router25

About Rustal's rambling about a scapegoat and how it was done before, could it be that GH was already corrupt and used Agnika as a supposed sacrifice to cover it up after the war??

I doubt it. If Agnika was really used as a scapegoat he wouldn't still be so revered as he is today. It could be possible that he was betrayed by one of the Seven Stars, but his reputation remained intact.

I thin Rustal is basically referring to all the other operations he has done in the name of "maintaining order", similar to the Dort Massacre which they already mentioned last season was done in order to make an example of fear.

Galan also mentioned doing many jobs for Rustal, which were probably similar to the War in Arbrau incident. Rustal loves to manipulate from behind the scenes and yet leaves very little trace behind, be it people or physical evidence.

[tdx]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

The thought of Tekkadan possibly having to abandon their name and become something else to survive kills me.

Oh yes, that's the most painful part of it. It's no different from Tekkadan essentially losing themselves. "Tekkadan is where Orga is" is beautiful words and all, but living their lives on another planet having to keep their heads low all the time is awful. It's also questionable if they even can attain any semblance of a decent life, what with no education, no money and no way to make money other than fighting which will be out of question because they will need to keep a low profile at all times... It's a bona fide downer ending in my book. That's why I hope, even if that hope is slim, that the way out through falsifying IDs is a red herring on the show's part. And I hope McGillis really isn't just a shortsighted chuuni with illusions of grandeur who had no realistic plans beyond getting Bael.

[Wing Kigu]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

Yeah Tekkadan forced to hide and live on the run while Rustal and Iok live it up would be a terrible ending.

The sad reality is, the fight is already over, they lost.

Even if all 3 Gundams at their disposal go full Berzerker mode and manage to fight through a fully united Gjallarhorn under Rustals command -the largest force ever seen and directly chop off the serpents head of Rustal, Iok, Gaelio etc even if McGillis gains that victory he still does not win. He can't govern, he can't formulate a coalition (not with the houses of all the family heads he's slaughtered...) on board with what he wants to do, he's not going to have any actual power. Ultimately he just ends up dead or in jail.

Unless they just want to be vengeful and murder everyone and destroy everything in a Ragnarok style apocalypse, a total blood bath that would completely collapse the government and plunge the world into darkness, the best option for Tekkadan is to fake their deaths and run.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Wing Kigu

The sad reality is, the fight is already over, they lost.

Even if all 3 Gundams at their disposal go full Berzerker mode and manage to fight through a fully united Gjallarhorn under Rustals command -the largest force ever seen and directly chop off the serpents head of Rustal, Iok, Gaelio etc even if McGillis gains that victory he still does not win. He can't govern, he can't formulate a coalition (not with the houses of all the family heads he's slaughtered...) on board with what he wants to do, he's not going to have any actual power. Ultimately he just ends up dead or in jail.

Unless they just want to be vengeful and murder everyone and destroy everything in a Ragnarok style apocalypse, a total blood bath that would completely collapse the government and plunge the world into darkness, the best option for Tekkadan is to fake their deaths and run.

Not quite true, if you can get Rustal, Iok and perhaps Gali (depending on if he leaves Rustal's side or not) the Seven Stars will fall simply because there are no more heirs. You would only have old men, who when they die, the Seven Stars will be no more. Also, with Rustal deciding to take on basically the leadership role of Gjallarhorn even among the Seven Stars, he and Arianrhod are a major pillar holding up Gjallarhorn right now. What happens when you knock out a key pillar? Everything come toppling down.

And public opinion is easy to sway as Rustal very well knows. He's an expert at manipulating it. You just need someone to do that in Tekkadan's favor.

So no, we haven't lost yet. As the producer has already told us very recently. Do not count Tekkadan out just yet, they have faced many enemies and dire straits before. There is a very real chance they can pull through this and come out on top.

[Wing Kigu]

McGillis has no allies. Rustal is in charge because they want him in charge. Gjallarhorn would rather fall than swear fealty to McGillis.

We can assume it's like they said: all of the Revolutionary elements within Gjallarhorn were slaughtered in battle or "dealt with" leaving only the house loyalists remaining.

The Seven Stars:

Elion Family: If Rustal himself is slaughtered there is no way his men are going to submit to McGillis.

Issue Family: It was revealed to them McGillis and Tekkadan slaughtered Carta Issue, they want a piece of him badly.

Fareed Family: "Dealt with". It's a toss up if McGillis men would stay loyal to him personally or Gjallarhorn itself especially after it's been revealed he's not the legitimate family head, usurped power, and his many crimes etc I would assume they would abstain from conflict and no longer recognize his authority.

Bauduin Family: If McGillis slays Gaelio and since his plan is known to try take Almiria for his wife, no way Gali men would stand for it!

Kujan family: The series has gone out of it's way to show Iok is absolutely beloved and idolized by his men, if that villain McGillis slaughters Iok they will die resisting MgGillis in his honor.

The other 2 families, the old man and the fat guy are cowards, they go the path of least resistance which in this situation would be the Anti-McGillis takeover.

After all he's done, if they manage to kill Rustal, Iok, Gaelio etc no one would recognize his authority. He'd still be shot down and executed as a traitor. He can't win. If he succeeds in killing the family heads then all he's doing is collapsing Gjallarhorn. At this point it's basically saying, "I'm just gonna destroy the entire system just because I cant get my way". Extremely petty with no regard for the damage that would cause to the world.

[DMurphy]

Increasingly, I'm starting to wonder if McGillis ever planned on surviving this.

I don't much like McG as a character (for, you know, the obvious Almiria reasons, even though I do get that he is heavily damaged by what Iznario did to him), but I'd like to think that he's at least somewhat self-aware: He knows he's fundamentally incompatible with the world he's trying to create, which is why he's so keen on elevating others who he thinks are pure in their ideals: Orga, but also Liza and Isurugi.

Add to that that his reactions to attacks against him. He was more concerned by Isurugi dying than he was by Rustal publicising his origins, and he doesn't seem to be all that bothered about the idea of Gaelio killing him in battle.

'Creating a world you yourself can't live in' is something of a theme in the show, and given that Agnika apparently left no legacy except Bael, I increasingly start to wonder if McGillis doesn't actually plan on dying in battle and becoming a martyr, while scorching Gjallarhorn so that more idealistic sorts can take over.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Wing Kigu

McGillis has no allies. Rustal is in charge because they want him in charge. Gjallarhorn would rather fall than swear fealty to McGillis.

We can assume it's like they said: all of the Revolutionary elements within Gjallarhorn were slaughtered in battle or "dealt with" leaving only the house loyalists remaining.

The Seven Stars:

Elion Family: If Rustal himself is slaughtered there is no way his men are going to submit to McGillis.

Issue Family: It was revealed to them McGillis and Tekkadan slaughtered Carta Issue, they want a piece of him badly.

Fareed Family: "Dealt with". It's a toss up if McGillis men would stay loyal to him personally or Gjallarhorn itself especially after it's been revealed he's not the legitimate family head, usurped power, and his many crimes etc I would assume they would abstain from conflict and no longer recognize his authority.

Bauduin Family: If McGillis slays Gaelio and since his plan is known to try take Almiria for his wife, no way Gali men would stand for it!

Kujan family: The series has gone out of it's way to show Iok is absolutely beloved and idolized by his men, if that villain McGillis slaughters Iok they will die resisting MgGillis in his honor.

The other 2 families, the old man and the fat guy are cowards, they go the path of least resistance which in this situation would be the Anti-McGillis takeover.

After all he's done, if they manage to kill Rustal, Iok, Gaelio etc no one would recognize his authority. He'd still be shot down and executed as a traitor. He can't win. If he succeeds in killing the family heads then all he's doing is collapsing Gjallarhorn. At this point it's basically saying, "I'm just gonna destroy the entire system just because I cant get my way". Extremely petty with no regard for the damage that would cause to the world.

Umm, the question that was originally being discussed was about Tekkadan running away or not. I'm not talking about McGillis right now. We're discussing Tekkadan's future.

I'm saying that if they can defeat Rustal and his cronies than not only will the Seven Stars eventually fall, but Tekkadan doesn't have to run away any longer (a plan that really wouldn't have worked anyway) and they can easily turn public opinion back around.

As for McGillis, I doubt his original plan will work now in any case, so what he's going to do is up in the air. As for his desire to reform Gjallarhorn, if they can take down the key pillar to Gjallarhorn that will end up causing the fall of the Seven Stars, then technically he's achieved his goal, even if it wasn't in the way he originally intended.

Also, a few corrections. There really is no Issue Family anymore. Carta was the only heir and her father is on his deathbed. That family is toast. And Macky didn't try to take Almiria as his wife. Almiria and McGillis betrothal was set up by their fathers. Iznario himself said last season that he did it so that he could use the alliance to get more power within the Bauduin family. Macky just decided to use his "father's" plan for himself.

[kgrodriguez]

Just a random, and really, baseless idea, that popped in my mind upon reading the comments up above, but what if McGillis never intended to come out as the hero after all of these?

What if all along, he was setting up someone like Gaelio to become the hero? It'll need some excellent writing, and I don't know if 3 episodes is enough, but what if he pulls some sort of LeLouch?

It'll also answer some inconsistencies with McG's character like -
(1) Why didn't he make sure that Gaelio died? It's because he intends him to come out as the hero at the end (then again, he act surprised upon knowing he lived).

(2) Why did McG used and relied on the tale of Bael when all the time he has stated that he wants to stop the old GH ways? Because him (and Bael) falling, together with the other stars, will lead to the end of GH (or something like that).

I doubt this happens, because it leaves Tekkadan in a weird spot, but hey, it's still a few days from the next episode and it's fun to speculate about stuff.

[asaqe]

The big trump card will be having the mobile armor be from the same nobility that founded Gjallarhorn. If Bael can awaken the mobile armor then he will either have a massive army to defend Mars and force Rustal to come down with Gaelio or leave Mars to themselves as they hold the ahab reactor economy hostage. It will also reveal a massive amount of hypcrisy on Gjallarhorn's end. Venerate Agnika after spending years building autonomous weapons that Agnika sacrificed his life to shut down and 72 pilots forgoing their humanity to do so.

The sad thing about all this is even if Arianhod disbands and the heads are dead. Survivors on Rustal's side will never take it down on the dirt. They will fight them in the shoals, they will fight them on Iron Sands but Rustals remnants will never surrender even if Gjallarhorn is reformed and Orga is nothing more than a puppet king had it reached that conclusion

[Faux Mecha]

with mommy Atra confirmed i will be on the edge of my seat trying to support Mika's well being, i want nothing bad happened to him & really want to see his journey as a good father, as an improvement over Flit & Asemu who are bad at being dads.

[Wing Kigu]

The Mobile Armor thing, at the beginning of episode 38 when Orga is telling the story how Mika defeated the MA, he says after what happened Gjallarhorn is now searching mars for other Calamity war remnants...

So it's possible McGillis found one. In that situation it's possible he could awaken it, let it cause a little havok (maybe he install a control system on it?) on the battlefield save Iok from dying, and then take it down with help from Mika. If he did that then he could claim an order of the seven stars and the right to rule and if they still denied him then he could make the case that Gjallarhorn is completely rigged and stands for nothing it was originally founded upon.

It's a complete cop out but if he has Bael, saves Iok, and kills a mobile armor he could argue he has earned the right to challenge Rustal directly to a formal one-on-one duel over the leadership of Gjallarhorn. That's how i'd play it, and if he turns his back on Gjallarhorn tradition then call him a coward, parasite etc.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Wing Kigu

The Mobile Armor thing, at the beginning of episode 38 when Orga is telling the story how Mika defeated the MA, he says after what happened Gjallarhorn is now searching mars for other Calamity war remnants...

So it's possible McGillis found one. In that situation it's possible he could awaken it, let it cause a little havok (maybe he install a control system on it?) on the battlefield save Iok from dying, and then take it down with help from Mika. If he did that then he could claim an order of the seven stars and the right to rule and if they still denied him then he could make the case that Gjallarhorn is completely rigged and stands for nothing it was originally founded upon.

An Order wont count for crap since McGillis has been booted from the organization (and is known to be a false heir to the Fareed name), he now has ZERO claims to such a reward, even if he performed the feat

[tdx]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

So no, we haven't lost yet. As the producer has already told us very recently. Do not count Tekkadan out just yet, they have faced many enemies and dire straits before. There is a very real chance they can pull through this and come out on top.

Yeah, I highly doubt it will be a total downer ending. Somewhat open? Yes. But not completely downer like what Wing Kigu seems to prefer.

Originally Posted by DMurphy

'Creating a world you yourself can't live in' is something of a theme in the show, and given that Agnika apparently left no legacy except Bael, I increasingly start to wonder if McGillis doesn't actually plan on dying in battle and becoming a martyr, while scorching Gjallarhorn so that more idealistic sorts can take over.

You might be onto something, because this is a clear parallel to Mika, who doesn't understand the world where he won't have to fight and where, thusly, there will be no place for him, but he fights to create it anyway - for Orga and now also for Atra&his kid. It would make sense, to me at least, that McGillis' resolve that he was shown setting at the beginning of this arc after witnessing Mika's fight against the MA was actually resolve to create a new world with no place for himself in it at the cost of sacrificing himself.

It also explains, at least a little, why McGillis is so damn calm all the time (barring the moment of Isurugi's death): he knows he's a dead man walking and has accepted it, so need to fret for him and no "family" he wants and needs to desperately protect.

[Skaddix]

I am not sure why people think Rustal is in the business of letting Iok die even if Rustal didn't care about him at all. As the Defender of the Status Quo, Leaving More Seven Star Families Heirless does not benefit Stability and the Long Term Standing of Gjhallahorn at all. And I say Rustal care a bit or he wouldn't have gone to the trouble of grounding Iok and giving him a few lectures.